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> Epic Games will be launching its hit game Fortnite for Android on its own website, and fans will only be able to download the game there, not on Google Play .

by orf 8y ago

> Epic Games will be launching its hit game Fortnite for Android on its own website, and fans will only be able to download the game there, not on Google Play ... while the setting that blocks third-party installations can be disabled on Android phones. If they are talking about disabling it system wide vs disabling it for a single application, is this not pretty irresponsible? Lots of kids play Fortnite, saying "hey to play your favourite game just disable this security setting" to millions of them seems risky.

bluehazed 8y ago
It's possible they're using the uncomfortable security risks as a play to get better terms out of Google.
scaasic 8y ago
Not an Android nor Fortnite user, but I believe from other reports there is a prompt to re-enable the setting after installing the app.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
draw_down 8y ago
Is it not irresponsible for the platform to force the choice to be that coarse-grained?
slivym 8y ago
You're right that it's a bad situation for millions of kids to be told to turn off security settings, it seems like that's a bad situation for Android/Google/Samsung than it is for Epic Games. It's kind of Google's own fault for tying their 'security' into a huge tax. If Google offered certification for a fixed cost then this wouldn't be an issue - you could distribute certified apps yourself and not have the problem. The problem is they tied certification into a tax and appearing in the appstore.
- kodablah 8y ago
  > The problem is they tied certification into a tax and appearing in the appstore. If you were more profit motivated, you might argue the problem is allowing externally installed software. Granted they foolishly obtained too large of a market share to have any say in that anymore. If you care about users though, yes, the cost barriers for devs are a problem no matter who puts them up. Ideally the cost is in the phone purchase, not the continued use.
MiddleEndian 8y ago
Hopefully these kids will be exposed to the idea that they can choose what software they use rather than being limited to a curated store.
- jryan49 8y ago
  They will most likely be scammed into downloading spyware.
  - danieldk 8y ago
    Which is a valuable lesson - a lesson in learning to be a rational, critical, grown-up human being. Or we could educate them and it might never happen. Also, let's not forget that many closed system are spyware already. Many of us became deeply involved in tech because some person (thanks Pat Volkerding!) or organization gave us a system were we could do whatever the hell we wanted.
    - orf 8y ago
      > Which is a valuable lesson - a lesson in learning to be a rational, critical, grown-up human being. Well... you can phrase it like some life lesson, sure. In reality 1% of 3 million kids clicking on 'Free vbux!!' and converting is 30,000 kids having malware ridden phones, doing god knows what to god knows who. Is increasing the profits of malware distributors by so much really worth some hand-wavy "teach kids to become a grown up" lesson? Also, it's not just the kids. By any margin.
      - danieldk 8y ago
        In reality 1% of 3 million kids clicking on 'Free vbux!!' and converting is 30,000 kids having malware ridden phones, doing god knows what to god knows who. Well, most of those kids will run outdated Android versions with many known vulnerabilities. And they cannot update their phones, because they have locked firmware and walled-garden OS, largely put in place to make them buy new phones. Again, the proper solution beyond a good security baseline is to educate people.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> If they are talking about disabling it system wide vs disabling it for a single application, is this not pretty irresponsible? It's not a system wide setting, it's an app-specific setting (that is, it's for the app you wish to be able to install other apps.) Setting it to “allow” for the default browser and leaving it that way is something of an issue, though.
- iokanuon 8y ago
  In my experience its only an app-specific setting on Samsung devices. Their phones give you a prompt for disabling the setting "just this one time".
  - opencl 8y ago
    It's app-specific for any phone running Oreo or newer.
- orf 8y ago
  So in this case Chrome or Firefox? Does not seem any better. In fact, way worse.
  - binomialxenon 8y ago
    I don't think this is how it works, at least not from my past experience with Lineage. A browser isn't an app installer, as when you download an APK from it, the APK is staged through the phone's integrated file manager (aka "Downloads" app), and is treated as having no real source. As far as I know, real "app installers" are purpose-built programs such as Amazon Appstore and F-Droid.
    - orf 8y ago
      Hmm, you might be right, but I installed an APK recently (also on Lineage) and it asked me to authorize Firefox, it had the Firefox logo and seemed to suggest that future installs would be authorized. I cancelled it and opened it through the file manager.
mscrivo 8y ago
This is not much of an issue with newer versions of Android. see Tim Sweeney's tweet about the situation: https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1025535391724650498 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/102553539172465049...
toast0 8y ago
Installing a downloaded APK means you miss out on Google's identity verification process, and maybe on Google's malicious code scanning -- but Google Play Protect says it will scan all apps on your device, and may upload your apps to Google[1], so it might not be that big of a difference in practice, if you get linked into the appstore by a shady website, you can get a shady app. There's a bigger difference on iOS, if a similar setting was even available, because Apple curates much more strongly than Google. [1] https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/2812853?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/2812853?hl=en
- nijave 8y ago
  Unless there's a different app store doing the same thing. (Such as Amazon app store for Android or F-Droid)
phobosdeimos 8y ago
Android doesn't have system wide sideloading anymore, if I allow sideloading for one app its still disabled for other apps.
tk75x 8y ago
IIRC, the setting only needs to be disabled temporarily to allow the installation of a third party app. If you re-enable the blocking setting after you install the game, I don't see any reason things can't work and be secure.
- pas 8y ago
  How will they handle updates?

by orf 8y ago

bluehazed 8y ago

It's possible they're using the uncomfortable security risks as a play to get better terms out of Google.

scaasic 8y ago

Not an Android nor Fortnite user, but I believe from other reports there is a prompt to re-enable the setting after installing the app.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

draw_down 8y ago

Is it not irresponsible for the platform to force the choice to be that coarse-grained?

slivym 8y ago

You're right that it's a bad situation for millions of kids to be told to turn off security settings, it seems like that's a bad situation for Android/Google/Samsung than it is for Epic Games. It's kind of Google's own fault for tying their 'security' into a huge tax. If Google offered certification for a fixed cost then this wouldn't be an issue - you could distribute certified apps yourself and not have the problem. The problem is they tied certification into a tax and appearing in the appstore.

kodablah 8y ago
> The problem is they tied certification into a tax and appearing in the appstore. If you were more profit motivated, you might argue the problem is allowing externally installed software. Granted they foolishly obtained too large of a market share to have any say in that anymore. If you care about users though, yes, the cost barriers for devs are a problem no matter who puts them up. Ideally the cost is in the phone purchase, not the continued use.

MiddleEndian 8y ago

Hopefully these kids will be exposed to the idea that they can choose what software they use rather than being limited to a curated store.

jryan49 8y ago
They will most likely be scammed into downloading spyware.
- danieldk 8y ago
  Which is a valuable lesson - a lesson in learning to be a rational, critical, grown-up human being. Or we could educate them and it might never happen. Also, let's not forget that many closed system are spyware already. Many of us became deeply involved in tech because some person (thanks Pat Volkerding!) or organization gave us a system were we could do whatever the hell we wanted.
  - orf 8y ago
    > Which is a valuable lesson - a lesson in learning to be a rational, critical, grown-up human being. Well... you can phrase it like some life lesson, sure. In reality 1% of 3 million kids clicking on 'Free vbux!!' and converting is 30,000 kids having malware ridden phones, doing god knows what to god knows who. Is increasing the profits of malware distributors by so much really worth some hand-wavy "teach kids to become a grown up" lesson? Also, it's not just the kids. By any margin.
    - danieldk 8y ago
      In reality 1% of 3 million kids clicking on 'Free vbux!!' and converting is 30,000 kids having malware ridden phones, doing god knows what to god knows who. Well, most of those kids will run outdated Android versions with many known vulnerabilities. And they cannot update their phones, because they have locked firmware and walled-garden OS, largely put in place to make them buy new phones. Again, the proper solution beyond a good security baseline is to educate people.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> If they are talking about disabling it system wide vs disabling it for a single application, is this not pretty irresponsible? It's not a system wide setting, it's an app-specific setting (that is, it's for the app you wish to be able to install other apps.) Setting it to “allow” for the default browser and leaving it that way is something of an issue, though.

iokanuon 8y ago
In my experience its only an app-specific setting on Samsung devices. Their phones give you a prompt for disabling the setting "just this one time".
- opencl 8y ago
  It's app-specific for any phone running Oreo or newer.
orf 8y ago
So in this case Chrome or Firefox? Does not seem any better. In fact, way worse.
- binomialxenon 8y ago
  I don't think this is how it works, at least not from my past experience with Lineage. A browser isn't an app installer, as when you download an APK from it, the APK is staged through the phone's integrated file manager (aka "Downloads" app), and is treated as having no real source. As far as I know, real "app installers" are purpose-built programs such as Amazon Appstore and F-Droid.
  - orf 8y ago
    Hmm, you might be right, but I installed an APK recently (also on Lineage) and it asked me to authorize Firefox, it had the Firefox logo and seemed to suggest that future installs would be authorized. I cancelled it and opened it through the file manager.

mscrivo 8y ago

This is not much of an issue with newer versions of Android. see Tim Sweeney's tweet about the situation: https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1025535391724650498 https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/102553539172465049...

toast0 8y ago

Installing a downloaded APK means you miss out on Google's identity verification process, and maybe on Google's malicious code scanning -- but Google Play Protect says it will scan all apps on your device, and may upload your apps to Google[1], so it might not be that big of a difference in practice, if you get linked into the appstore by a shady website, you can get a shady app. There's a bigger difference on iOS, if a similar setting was even available, because Apple curates much more strongly than Google. [1] https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/2812853?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/2812853?hl=en

nijave 8y ago
Unless there's a different app store doing the same thing. (Such as Amazon app store for Android or F-Droid)

phobosdeimos 8y ago

Android doesn't have system wide sideloading anymore, if I allow sideloading for one app its still disabled for other apps.

tk75x 8y ago

IIRC, the setting only needs to be disabled temporarily to allow the installation of a third party app. If you re-enable the blocking setting after you install the game, I don't see any reason things can't work and be secure.

pas 8y ago
How will they handle updates?