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Compensation for volunteer work has always felt like a bandaid solution to me. What would happen if everyone's needs were met? With infinite resources, space an

Compensation for volunteer work has always felt like a bandaid solution to me. What would happen if everyone's needs were met? With infinite resources, space and time, would people still volunteer? This question always makes me think of StarTrek. Does anyone know any science fiction novels that really dive into the possible consequences of a post-scarcity, post-money society?

Alex3917 8y ago
> Does anyone know any science fiction novels that really dive into the possible consequences of a post-scarcity, post-money society? https://smile.amazon.com/Down-Magic-Kingdom-Cory-Doctorow/dp/076530953X https://smile.amazon.com/Down-Magic-Kingdom-Cory-Doctorow/dp... https://craphound.com/down/Cory_Doctorow_-_Down_and_Out_in_the_Magic_Kingdom.pdf https://craphound.com/down/Cory_Doctorow_-_Down_and_Out_in_t... You don't really need speculative fiction though, just look at what the millions of folks who already have basic income do with their time. Volunteering is pretty high on the list.
- fartcannon 8y ago
  That's fantastic. I'll see what I can find. UBI tops the list of good things humans could do for one another in my mind. Public school, democracy, universal health care, and now universal basic income... what's next? Sometimes it's hard to remember that we do do nice things for each other every now and then.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    Unfortunately if you attempt any of these things in the US you'll be branded an evil socialist. Better off slaving away your entire life to create that all-important shareholder value!
    - mg794613 8y ago
      This guy got down voted just because people felt insulted. Yes there is not much prose to his words but he is sort of right. Any attempt to care for your fellow human is branded as 'communism' or 'against the american way'. Especially when you elect a president (or two) that literally say that.
      - mg794613 8y ago
        Sure. Downvote me too. But nobody comes with a counter argument aka 'don't want to hear the truth'
- sanderjd 8y ago
  > look at what the millions of folks who already have basic income do with their time. Volunteering is pretty high on the list. I would actually be interested in seeing some numbers on that question. Do you know of any sources? Who are the millions of folks you're thinking of?
  - Alex3917 8y ago
    > Who are the millions of folks you're thinking of? Anyone from a family with intergenerational wealth. I haven't seen formal statistics on this, but most of the people I've talked with in this situation aren't just sitting around smoking crack or whatever the anti-UBI folks claim would happen.
    - sanderjd 8y ago
      Hmm, trust funds aren't like basic income at all. I also suspect people would do better things upon being freed from work than people generally assume, but "well trust fund kids volunteer a lot!" is a very uncompelling argument for that supposition.
      - Alex3917 8y ago
        In what way is a trust fund not like basic income? Aren’t both just money that gets deposited in your bank account every month or year? They seem identical as far as I can tell.
        sanderjd 8y ago
        In the same way that being a successful lawyer is not at all like working the cash register at McDonalds: the amount of income. Trust funds provide rich people with a lot of income, basic income would provide basic sustenance level income.
        Alex3917 8y ago
        YC’s UBI program is giving 1k per month, which is pretty close to the maximum tax free amount under gift tax laws. So at the least there is going to be a ton of comparables around that level.
phry 8y ago
The Dispossessed is a classic.
8bitsrule 8y ago
Not quite a novel, but E.M. Forster's 12k-word 1909 story 'The Machine Stops' famously takes a long, hard look at one possible result of a society dependent on a self-repairing machine that does everything. http://www.nyu.edu/projects/nissenbaum/papers/machine_stops.pdf http://www.nyu.edu/projects/nissenbaum/papers/machine_stops....
joshvm 8y ago
Iain M Bank's Culture series covers a post -scarcity interstellar civilisation.
solarkraft 8y ago
> With infinite resources, space and time, would people still volunteer? Yes! They even do it on their limited resources right now.
- WilliamEdward 8y ago
  When i finished high school and had no money, I actually volunteered specifically because my needs were not met and I had no resources, so I needed to get my foot in the door. It actually tends to work the opposite of how you think. There's no way in hell I will volunteer if I can just laze around with my money all day.
  - Firadeoclus 8y ago
    There are many volunteers who have no need to "get a foot in the door". What do you think their motivations are?
    - WilliamEdward 8y ago
      Good point. My comment is purely anecdotal and there are probably a lot of people who volunteer because they have enough or find joy in it.

Alex3917 8y ago

> Does anyone know any science fiction novels that really dive into the possible consequences of a post-scarcity, post-money society? https://smile.amazon.com/Down-Magic-Kingdom-Cory-Doctorow/dp/076530953X https://smile.amazon.com/Down-Magic-Kingdom-Cory-Doctorow/dp... https://craphound.com/down/Cory_Doctorow_-_Down_and_Out_in_the_Magic_Kingdom.pdf https://craphound.com/down/Cory_Doctorow_-_Down_and_Out_in_t... You don't really need speculative fiction though, just look at what the millions of folks who already have basic income do with their time. Volunteering is pretty high on the list.

fartcannon 8y ago
That's fantastic. I'll see what I can find. UBI tops the list of good things humans could do for one another in my mind. Public school, democracy, universal health care, and now universal basic income... what's next? Sometimes it's hard to remember that we do do nice things for each other every now and then.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Unfortunately if you attempt any of these things in the US you'll be branded an evil socialist. Better off slaving away your entire life to create that all-important shareholder value!
  - mg794613 8y ago
    This guy got down voted just because people felt insulted. Yes there is not much prose to his words but he is sort of right. Any attempt to care for your fellow human is branded as 'communism' or 'against the american way'. Especially when you elect a president (or two) that literally say that.
    - mg794613 8y ago
      Sure. Downvote me too. But nobody comes with a counter argument aka 'don't want to hear the truth'
sanderjd 8y ago
> look at what the millions of folks who already have basic income do with their time. Volunteering is pretty high on the list. I would actually be interested in seeing some numbers on that question. Do you know of any sources? Who are the millions of folks you're thinking of?
- Alex3917 8y ago
  > Who are the millions of folks you're thinking of? Anyone from a family with intergenerational wealth. I haven't seen formal statistics on this, but most of the people I've talked with in this situation aren't just sitting around smoking crack or whatever the anti-UBI folks claim would happen.
  - sanderjd 8y ago
    Hmm, trust funds aren't like basic income at all. I also suspect people would do better things upon being freed from work than people generally assume, but "well trust fund kids volunteer a lot!" is a very uncompelling argument for that supposition.
    - Alex3917 8y ago
      In what way is a trust fund not like basic income? Aren’t both just money that gets deposited in your bank account every month or year? They seem identical as far as I can tell.
      - sanderjd 8y ago
        In the same way that being a successful lawyer is not at all like working the cash register at McDonalds: the amount of income. Trust funds provide rich people with a lot of income, basic income would provide basic sustenance level income.
        Alex3917 8y ago
        YC’s UBI program is giving 1k per month, which is pretty close to the maximum tax free amount under gift tax laws. So at the least there is going to be a ton of comparables around that level.

phry 8y ago

The Dispossessed is a classic.

8bitsrule 8y ago

Not quite a novel, but E.M. Forster's 12k-word 1909 story 'The Machine Stops' famously takes a long, hard look at one possible result of a society dependent on a self-repairing machine that does everything. http://www.nyu.edu/projects/nissenbaum/papers/machine_stops.pdf http://www.nyu.edu/projects/nissenbaum/papers/machine_stops....

joshvm 8y ago

Iain M Bank's Culture series covers a post -scarcity interstellar civilisation.

solarkraft 8y ago

> With infinite resources, space and time, would people still volunteer? Yes! They even do it on their limited resources right now.

WilliamEdward 8y ago
When i finished high school and had no money, I actually volunteered specifically because my needs were not met and I had no resources, so I needed to get my foot in the door. It actually tends to work the opposite of how you think. There's no way in hell I will volunteer if I can just laze around with my money all day.
- Firadeoclus 8y ago
  There are many volunteers who have no need to "get a foot in the door". What do you think their motivations are?
  - WilliamEdward 8y ago
    Good point. My comment is purely anecdotal and there are probably a lot of people who volunteer because they have enough or find joy in it.