6 ms·

This was all but announced over the past few months. Like mentioned in article in the article, they're targeting SABIC which probably requires a big bond deal.

by whatok 8y ago

This was all but announced over the past few months. Like mentioned in article in the article, they're targeting SABIC which probably requires a big bond deal. Bloomberg says current market cap is 98bn USD so... There are definitely some junior bankers who want to kill themselves over this.

shawn 8y ago
There are definitely some junior bankers who want to kill themselves over this. That feeling is a good one, though. (Obviously not if you follow it, but still.) I lost my dad's nest egg in bitcoin. Or rather I have 7 BTC locked up in Gox which I may or may not see <20% of again. When the realization of what I'd done hit me in 2013, it was extremely hard for me to come to terms with it. All I could think about was how much work he'd put into a house next door to us that we owned. We weren't well-off, but at one point we owned the house we lived next to, and my dad always made sure to find reliable tenants and such. Then eventually the city came knocking and said they wanted to buy part of the land so that they could widen a road. And that's where the nestegg came from, and went straight into an investment account where it doubled over the next 4 years. On the one hand, that was my opportunity to become set for the rest of my life: My friend had been telling me about bitcoin since 2010, and it was easy to roll my eyes at him back then. But of course, being young and having no training in speculation whatsoever, I bought in at the worst time and at the worst exchange. Ok, so what's my point? Well, the mindset of those junior bankers is what permeates America. We're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires, right? It's a kind of shared madness. It also causes immense harm to those who lose out. And it's cultural. In some ways it's exactly the same ill effects as certain aspects of rap culture. (I like rap, don't read into this too much.) You get told by your peers that you either have money or you don't, and if you don't then you're worthless. And so you spend all your waking energy trying to scheme how to turn $2 into $200. We're all going to die, and relatively soon. It's just so dumb to spend so much time on something that truly does not matter. My Bitcoin friend from 2010 wound up a millionaire, but he lost his love along the way, and as far as I know he still hasn't found anyone. Was that rich life worth it? People in life are what matters. Money matters too, of course, and it's tempting to dream about having FU riches. But when we live in this culture where we're all trying to gamble, and institutions are trying to gamble, and the losers get quietly swept under the rug and silenced, all that's left is the impression that everyone is winning except you. And it's ~impossible to come to your senses when you're caught up in that. It's just so dangerous and greedy. Admittedly there's not much to be done about it, but at least it can be recognized for what it is.
- whatok 8y ago
  what
- crunchlibrarian 8y ago
  Investment bankers working to take companies public or in M&A are not even in the same ballpark as someone who got taken in one of the many cryptocoin scams that everyone has been screaming about being scams for ten years. There is no comparison. The takeaway is not about love and life lessons, it's about listening to people who are smarter than you when they scream that something is a pyramid scheme.
  - shawn 8y ago
    The point is, it's the same mindset. The level of craziness varies wildly, but the underlying goal of "I want to seek out exponential growth" is the same. And it's worth recognizing that.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      > it's the same mindset It's really not. Senior bankers carefully weigh downside risks. Those risks are hedged by retainers (i.e. up-front, non-refundable advisory fees), cross-sales (e.g. management fees from a client's assets in the fund business making up for false starts at equity capital markets) and diversification (e.g. "ARAMCO is a juicy whale, but I'll keep a quarter of my staff working on other prospects"). Junior bankers get less deal diversification, but having worked on a deal of this calibre is nothing to sneeze at. The qualified will have distinguished themselves and earned front seats on future deals. Furthermore, both senior and junior bankers have salaries, benefits and stock in their company. At quite a few of those firms, buying cryptocurrencies in any meaningful quantity would be reason to question a junior's judgement.
- newmoney420 8y ago
  > People in life are what matters. Money matters too, of course, and it's tempting to dream about having FU riches. But when we live in this culture where we're all trying to gamble, and institutions are trying to gamble, and the losers get quietly swept under the rug and silenced, all that's left is the impression that everyone is winning except you. And it's ~impossible to come to your senses when you're caught up in that. It's just so dangerous and greedy. I recently became a multi-millionaire (not from crypto) and this is so true. I'm less happy than I was when I rented month to month, didn't own a couch and ate ramen most nights. I actually really miss it- too many obligations and responsibilities to go back now. I wish I enjoyed my 20s more. I thought that I wanted money above all else. Then I got the money and realized I don't really need that. I'm only close to 1 other human in the whole world and sometimes I wonder if she even cares for me anymore since all I do is work to make more money. I was just so wrong about my whole life. Even though I'm young, I feel as though I'm entrenched in this game now with no viable way out.

by whatok 8y ago

shawn 8y ago

There are definitely some junior bankers who want to kill themselves over this. That feeling is a good one, though. (Obviously not if you follow it, but still.) I lost my dad's nest egg in bitcoin. Or rather I have 7 BTC locked up in Gox which I may or may not see <20% of again. When the realization of what I'd done hit me in 2013, it was extremely hard for me to come to terms with it. All I could think about was how much work he'd put into a house next door to us that we owned. We weren't well-off, but at one point we owned the house we lived next to, and my dad always made sure to find reliable tenants and such. Then eventually the city came knocking and said they wanted to buy part of the land so that they could widen a road. And that's where the nestegg came from, and went straight into an investment account where it doubled over the next 4 years. On the one hand, that was my opportunity to become set for the rest of my life: My friend had been telling me about bitcoin since 2010, and it was easy to roll my eyes at him back then. But of course, being young and having no training in speculation whatsoever, I bought in at the worst time and at the worst exchange. Ok, so what's my point? Well, the mindset of those junior bankers is what permeates America. We're all temporarily embarrassed millionaires, right? It's a kind of shared madness. It also causes immense harm to those who lose out. And it's cultural. In some ways it's exactly the same ill effects as certain aspects of rap culture. (I like rap, don't read into this too much.) You get told by your peers that you either have money or you don't, and if you don't then you're worthless. And so you spend all your waking energy trying to scheme how to turn $2 into $200. We're all going to die, and relatively soon. It's just so dumb to spend so much time on something that truly does not matter. My Bitcoin friend from 2010 wound up a millionaire, but he lost his love along the way, and as far as I know he still hasn't found anyone. Was that rich life worth it? People in life are what matters. Money matters too, of course, and it's tempting to dream about having FU riches. But when we live in this culture where we're all trying to gamble, and institutions are trying to gamble, and the losers get quietly swept under the rug and silenced, all that's left is the impression that everyone is winning except you. And it's ~impossible to come to your senses when you're caught up in that. It's just so dangerous and greedy. Admittedly there's not much to be done about it, but at least it can be recognized for what it is.

whatok 8y ago
what
crunchlibrarian 8y ago
Investment bankers working to take companies public or in M&A are not even in the same ballpark as someone who got taken in one of the many cryptocoin scams that everyone has been screaming about being scams for ten years. There is no comparison. The takeaway is not about love and life lessons, it's about listening to people who are smarter than you when they scream that something is a pyramid scheme.
- shawn 8y ago
  The point is, it's the same mindset. The level of craziness varies wildly, but the underlying goal of "I want to seek out exponential growth" is the same. And it's worth recognizing that.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > it's the same mindset It's really not. Senior bankers carefully weigh downside risks. Those risks are hedged by retainers (i.e. up-front, non-refundable advisory fees), cross-sales (e.g. management fees from a client's assets in the fund business making up for false starts at equity capital markets) and diversification (e.g. "ARAMCO is a juicy whale, but I'll keep a quarter of my staff working on other prospects"). Junior bankers get less deal diversification, but having worked on a deal of this calibre is nothing to sneeze at. The qualified will have distinguished themselves and earned front seats on future deals. Furthermore, both senior and junior bankers have salaries, benefits and stock in their company. At quite a few of those firms, buying cryptocurrencies in any meaningful quantity would be reason to question a junior's judgement.
newmoney420 8y ago
> People in life are what matters. Money matters too, of course, and it's tempting to dream about having FU riches. But when we live in this culture where we're all trying to gamble, and institutions are trying to gamble, and the losers get quietly swept under the rug and silenced, all that's left is the impression that everyone is winning except you. And it's ~impossible to come to your senses when you're caught up in that. It's just so dangerous and greedy. I recently became a multi-millionaire (not from crypto) and this is so true. I'm less happy than I was when I rented month to month, didn't own a couch and ate ramen most nights. I actually really miss it- too many obligations and responsibilities to go back now. I wish I enjoyed my 20s more. I thought that I wanted money above all else. Then I got the money and realized I don't really need that. I'm only close to 1 other human in the whole world and sometimes I wonder if she even cares for me anymore since all I do is work to make more money. I was just so wrong about my whole life. Even though I'm young, I feel as though I'm entrenched in this game now with no viable way out.