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Clicker Diet: Tracking Diet with Tally Counter
- sumobob 8y agoThis is awesome! Thanks so much for sharing, how do you handle increases or changes in activity during a sprint?
- hippich 8y agoI do put notes about my workouts or anything out of ordinary, but in general I just trying to keep it down to number of point (which no longer represent 100kcal anymore) and adjusting total number after each "sprint" and its results.
- psergeant 8y agoI’m not sure I can envisage any situation where I wouldn’t be chipping away at point totals like a particularly needy Product Manager
- brianbreslin 8y agoThe points system reminds me a lot of the Weight Watchers system where foods have roughly assigned point totals.
- chickenchaser 8y ago> I was thinking – what if I assigned a particular number of points to each food I eat and try to keep points under certain threshold daily, and, which is more critical, weekly. Yup, even the weekly total is very similar to the Weight Watchers system.
- theodorewiles 8y agoI think the insight is that you don’t really have to track down the points for everything you eat. you can guesstimate how many points something is and the measurement error will come out in the wash after you calibrate it to observes weight loss / gain. Pretty neat IMHO!
- Fnoord 8y agoIt does, yes, but it simplifies it. Weight Watchers is needlessly complex as it is proprietary walled garden ecosystem. It also has a support and shaming element (for which you pay). Weight Watchers assigns points based on ingredients and amounts. This just uses straight up calories. Difficulty with Weight Watchers is it takes time to do data entry, and you cannot always accurately put it in because of complexity or incomplete database. With this, you still won't know how much calories something from a restaurant contains but every time you make your own food you can see the package. Except on fresh food such as vegetables and fruits you prepare yourself.
- GordonS 8y agoI've known several people try weight watchers - all of them lost weight... and then put it straight back on again. These kind of weight loss programs can be useful, but only if you are also committing to change the way you eat for the long term.
- lihaciudaniel 8y agoVery great, this is something that you understand with experience. I would like to pick the habit of this. Any app dev will make this thing for android?
- tonystubblebine 8y agoThis was one of the best explanations of why "calories in, calories out" isn't true. https://betterhumans.coach.me/why-caloric-restriction-fails-part-2-ec0c0c337649 https://betterhumans.coach.me/why-caloric-restriction-fails-...
- Thriptic 8y agoCalorie restriction basically categorically works. If it is not working for you, you are either not accurately measuring your intake, or you need to restrict more aggressively. It's that simple. Now, is calorie restriction the OPTIMAL diet? Maybe not, but half the problem with weight loss is that people get hyper fixated on finding the ideal dieting methodology and never just start. Calorie counting works, IIFYM works, zone diet works, keto works, weight watchers works. As long as you pick a validated plan that matches your lifestyle and you are adherent, you will have success.
- johnkpaul 8y agoI feel like that's like saying "making more money categorically works to solve poverty." I don't disagree with that statement, no one can, but is it useful, actionable and helpful? As a lifelong obese person, I disagree immensely that any of those things work. I have been asking doctors for years if they have any success stories of any of those things "working" for longer than 1 year and I have found none.
- Thriptic 8y agoYou're speaking with someone who has had success. I've had success using both keto / Atkins and if it fits your macros (basically calorie counting with more tracking). I would be happy to share my experience with you / provide advice if you would like. Alternatively, please feel free to refer to my post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15604761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15604761
- johnkpaul 8y ago
- Thriptic 8y ago> I also noticed that calories counting was the most efficient way to drop off extra weight, but counting calories is a very-very-very daunting task. If you ever used MyFitnesPal or similar tool you know how much time it takes: unlock your phone, find the app, wait till it loads, go through the list of categories, find the right food (if you are lucky), try to measure what you ate/about to eat and adjust numbers, save. Eventually, it became “I will add all these things in the evening,” then I started missing days until I gave up entirely. If you are embarking on a diet, I would highly advocate minimizing meal variability to remove the cognitive overhead associated with meal planning. If you pick 3-5 healthy meals that you can eat everyday, calorie or macro counting becomes simple because you already know that what you are going to eat will fit into your daily totals. I cut from 300 to 215 lbs several years ago and kept the weight off. If you're interested in reading some high level dieting advice, please refer to my post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15604761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15604761
- dagoat 8y agoThis. But whilst I completely agree that eating the same meals/foods every day makes dieting much easier - the dieter should make sure to not rely on any one source of food too much. Make sure that you're getting your nutrients from a variety of foods. Things like beans, nuts, spinach, etc are all very healthy - but if you made them a staple of your diet you could be overloading your body with iron and/or oxalates. Every person processes nutrients differently, so one person can eat a bag of spinach a day for years and have no ill effects - another person could find themselves developing kidney stones. My point is not to focus on any one food or nutrient being "bad", just that moderation and variety applies even when eating healthy
- ghostbrainalpha 8y agoI noticed the same thing, but used it to my advantage. I ended up losing weight just because sometimes I would rather not eat a late night snack, than find my phone and figure out the calories in 1/2 a cupcake.
- Fnoord 8y agoThe amount of weight you have or had or lost (in lbs or kg) does not tell the reader anything about your height, age, or BMI.
- tw1010 8y agoI guess this is a law now. I have nothing against it, but imma be the first to coin the observation. Let it be known that today tw1010 was the first to observe that it seems, funny isn't it, like every new pet project the tech world stumbles into (biohacking, economics, etc) will eventually find all its subcomponents (fasting is a subcomponent of biohacking, etc) combinatorially combined with all the concepts in the tech sphere (agile, etc), as long as the combination makes sense (but sometimes also when it doesn't make sense; a nonsensical blog hidden in a github gist viewed by 13 people).
- nyxtom 8y agoNeat idea! This is intuitive to how I approach eating and working out in general. I gauge the overall consumption and activity and make adjustments for the next day or week. Progress is generally slow but consistent.
- nyxtom 8y agoFor instance I also gauge how repetitive the foods I eat so I also maintain an internal awareness for the need to have variety and a good biome.
- andrewchoi 8y agoIs it just me or did the OP just reinvent Weight Watchers points?
- gnicholas 8y agoYes, and he describes it as his “lightbulb moment”.
- ScotterC 8y agoThis is a great idea. I've been on a several year cycle where every 3-4 years I go hardcore again and cut 20-30 lbs with minimizing meal variability and exercising constantly. This feels like a great solution for the intermediate time of trying to slow/stop my general daily increase of 10-20% increase in calorie intake. Even having a small, easy habit like using a mechanical tracker would make me more mindful of what I eat and have a beneficial impact.
- lihaciudaniel 8y agoA quote from Tao of Seneca really stuck with me. "You may desire to know how I, who preach to you so freely, am practicing. I confess frankly: my expense account balances, as you would expect from one who is free-handed but careful. I cannot boast that I waste nothing, but I can at least tell you what I am wasting, and the cause and manner of the loss; I can give you the reasons why I am a poor man." Basically it's not to always do the right thing but at least be accountable to yourself.
- malkia 8y agoIn Feb, this year, got severe coughing, went to the doctor just to find out I had really high blood sugar. Next thing - do as I did 10+ years ago - cut all carbs/sugar - 6 months later, on (I guess) keto diet - I'm from 320 -> 275lbs - without calorie restriction - e.g. I eat as I like. For some unknown reason cholesterol also went down. My only "gym" exercise are walking the dog - mile, two or three a day. Iron mind #2, #2.5 and #3 and few more like it, and recently started again doing occasional push-ups, pull-ups, dips, etc. I know that once I get back into shape, and start going to the real gym, and hit the legs - I'll lose even more :)
- ravenstine 8y agoKeep it up, dude! Cutting out carbs and especially sugar, while getting outdoor exercise, allowed me to drop from 224 lbs to 180 in 9 months and then down to 160 in the following months when I started high intensity training. Losing weight is life changing and everyone treats you better the slimmer you are. I think that any diet that doesn't limit carbs and nearly eliminate sugar intake is severely flawed. That's not to say weight can't be lost on a high carb diet, but it takes a lot more effort and still puts one at risk for diabetes. I also think that people who tried keto and claim it didn't work were doing it wrong; one of the problems I ran into was low potassium intake, which made me feel sick. Just adding some potassium, even if it's from a banana here and there, makes a ton of difference.
- imjk 8y agoJust out of curiosity, how is coughing related to high blood sugar?
- malkia 8y agoIn no way. I simply had cough, that didn't stop, and went to the doctor to check what's going on. She reminded me that the last time I've been there (before that) my sugar was quite elevated, but not so much, but then when I was supposed to come back then later to re-check... I didn't... (Familiar story anyone)? So she checked it, and it was... staggering really really high. Got metformin, glypzide prescribed, and other things. etc. What I realized, compared to the last time I did atkins - is not take it so pedantic - e.g. just cut the sugar where makes most sense - like bread, potatoes, obviously sweet things (pastries, cake, chocolate, ice cream, etc., etc.). I still eat berries, watermellon (sometimes), and vegetables (if tomato is a vegetable - I can't live without them :)). Also more coffee than usual...
- RobertRoberts 8y agoI think the simpler the plan the easier it is to maintain. I lost weight and maintain it without any exercise, dieting and only minimal portion control (which is now super easy and I can cheat whenever I want, even every day). How I have lost weight, and not only maintained the lost weight, but also continue to slightly lose more, is to be ok with being hungry. Being hungry is good and normal and if you can get to this point mentally then every meal tastes better, you eat less automatically (some portion control is related, next paragraph) and when you are hungry your stomach has contracted some and you need less food to feel full. Also, you have more energy, and more time (less spent on dealing with food). To ensure you are hungry before the next meal, eat less and less every time until you understand your body intuitively. Not with measures, but with skill honed by experience, customized information/data to your exact body and life. An average day (currently), I make an egg/milk (add ice to make a shake) type drink for breakfast and lunch. Sometimes a very light lunch, and then I eat whatever I want to for dinner. Anything I feel like. (anyone can find something super light, just to get you through a few hours, and then be hungry before lunch.) If in the future my energy level changes? (from more/less exercise or activity) Then so will my hunger status, which automatically adjusts how much I eat. But feeling hungry has to be ok. I like being hungry for about an hour before I eat a meal. This is with no exercise at all, none. Also, when on vacation, if I pig out (not as enjoyable as it used to be) or drink more than usual, then it doesn't matter at all, because if I go up a few pounds, they will shed easily in the next couple days. --Experiment from the past year. Last year (summer) I did intermittent fasting, and got up to running 2 miles a day. I lost 15 pounds in a month. I kept most of it off, but limited my running a lot after this, and by December I decided to see if pure strength exercising would be enough to control weight. It was not, I gained weight, mostly muscle, but my waist did not shrink. Then last January, I decided to try the "be hungry and ok" technique, and I've done this for about 8 months. My weight has consistently fluctuated in a downward trend. I will never go back to gorging, exercise for weight loss or any of that really stressful stuff, it doesn't work long term for me. I will start running again soon, and it may help with weight loss, but I won't rely on it. I exercise to be strong and healthy, not to fix my eating problems anymore. Cheers and encourage to everyone dealing with health and weight issues.
- Fnoord 8y ago
- hippich 8y agoRe: weight watchers - it is close, but not the same. the ultimate goal is to get mind assign points for food, no matter how much each point worth in calories. 1click = 100kcal is just a starting point.
- paultopia 8y agoInteresting concept. How does the clicker relate to the spreadsheet? that is, if you're entering the data into a spreadsheet anyway, why also the clicker? (isn't the point of the clicker to simplify away the laborious/unmaintainable spreadsheet stuff?)
- hippich 8y agoClicker is in my pocket and I "sync" every evening (or next morning before the first meal) I like the convenience of it. I do not have to pull out the phone to enter a number. I can discretely click it while it is in the pocket while in the restaurant without bringing up dieting topic. And I personally like mechanical feeling of it.
- elboru 8y agoI'm working on a expenses tracker app, I hope I could find a similar way to input money expenses. Pulling out the phone/unlocking it/opening the app/entering data sounds easy, but it's not when you have to do it several times daily, it depends too much in discipline.
- hippich 8y agoI am not quite seeing how clicker would work for precise stuff like money/budgeting. Perhaps the opposite would work - you "click" when you save? I.e. you look at something you want to buy impulsively, and refuse to do it. And reward yourself with a point (or multiple) Just throwing an idea.. :)
- coldtea 8y ago>why also the clicker? So that he doesn't have to go write it to the spreadsheet all the time after every thing he eats, but just one per day.
- ectospheno 8y agoLog how much you eat at your current weight. Then eat less of that. Once you hit a new plateau you decide if you want to weigh even less. If so then eat less again. I'm 35 pounds down from my high weight and have kept it off for 6 months now. I eat all the same crap (candy included). I just eat less of it. It is only rocket science if you choose to make it rocket science.
- jmull 8y ago> Then eat less of that. The hard part is finding a way to do that, especially over a longer period of time. Generally people are working against some combination of social, cultural, psychological, physiological, and financial pressures so it is not necessarily simple to do.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- darioush 8y agoPractical diet for software engineers: - Breakfast + dinner <= 500 cals - Lunch eat what the company gives or go out with teammates, don't get 2nds or lots of dessert. Keep it to 1000 cals.
- Kagerjay 8y agobest advice here IMO also just memorize a bunch of common food items you eat, bananas are about 100 calories, bowl of cereal + milk, protein shake, etc. Should be less than 10 items you need to commit to memory, you can guesstimate everything else off of these. For reference, a burrito bowl from chipotle w/ everything but guac is ~1000 calories, ~300 calories for a tortillia shell, its a good balance eyeball measurement to use, since most of the food groups are in there. Have some nonperishable consumable foods to balance calorie vs hunger intake. I use jerky. Drink increased amounts of water to reduce appetite on weight loss Unfortunately my dinner and lunch meals have too much variability so it becomes hard to keep track of though. Mine looks like breakfast <300 calories, early lunch and late dinner <800 calories. For bulking you just need to adjust the breakfast / lunch / dinner values. Easiest way is to make breakfast a fullmeal, and add a 4th meal (protein shake) at night, but keep everything else the same
- dreeves 8y agoHighly relevant: https://blog.beeminder.com/bites/ https://blog.beeminder.com/bites/ (about tracking bites of food and committing to a max number per day)
- CharlesW 8y agoThis is bonkers, but slightly less so once you realize that the author means "mouthfuls of food or caloric liquid" rather than literal bites (which you hopefully do many times per mouthful of food).
- dreeves 8y agoHa, thanks for saying that. My mother had the same reaction and I assumed she was just being obtuse but now that a commenter on Hacker News has said it I'm going to assume there's genuine ambiguity there and add a little prescript to the post to clarify! ... and done. Thanks again!
- dreeves 8y agoEven more relevant: The Beeminder Android app has a tally counter built in. :) (I use it mainly to count pushups by putting my phone on the floor and touching my nose to the phone with each pushup.)
- alexm920 8y agoI feel like this amounts to "Tracking calories wasn't working, but tracking calories divided by 100, that's the ticket!" While a mechanical clicker is certainly cleaner than an app, you hit the same snags of not really knowing the calorie content unless your diet is incredibly regular. While I'm happy the author found a gimmick that helps them stick to their calorie targets, I don't think this needed a write-up, much less a dedicated website.
- hippich 8y agoMost crucial part is adjusting a total number of points each "sprint". This way you start with each click = 100kcal, but eventually, it will be something else based on how your brain estimates the caloric content of the food you eat.
- flowardnut 8y agoLearning "how many calories are in this handful of snacks" is what helped me. I suggest people weigh everything with a kitchen scale (for a few weeks) until the get the feeling of what a serving of cheese is. Once you get a handle on serving sizes, something like this above is a much easier tool to utilize.
- stephengillie 8y agoDividing by ~80 instead of 100 lets most people eat 1 point per hour. I've been working on this to replace my "cheeseburger equivalent scale".[0] With this system, add kcal/80 to the current hour, and that says when you should eat again. For example, if it's 8am and you eat 400 kcals, add (400/80)+10 = 15 or about 3pm is when you should eat again. [0]Cheeseburger Equivalent scale: - Average plain cheeseburger = 350 kcals. (Not a Whopper, Big Mac, or any deluxe burger - this is a "Where's the Beef" cheeseburger.) - You get 6-7 cheeesburgers per day. And no other food. - Trade 1 cheeseburger for 1 item of equal calories. Examples: Slice of pizza, Donut, 24 oz soda/beer, 5 chicken wings, etc.
- jmull 8y agoExcellent! One of my little side projects (perpetually in progress, unfortunately) is an Apple Watch app with exactly the same mechanic. (That is, to budget food in terms of points where a 1 point == "my estimate of 100 calories", and you adjust your daily budget based on long-term weight change.) The idea is to distill the benefit of tracking calories -- which I think is (1) the basic mindfulness around eating to stop and think for just a second before stuffing something in your mouth; and (2) the valuable feedback loop it creates... while minimizing the tracking tasks. However, I think this is really best for experienced calorie counters because while the estimates don't need to be accurate, they do need to be fairly consistent and proportionate. And, I suspect, you need to be ready to calculate calories when you're facing an unfamiliar meal. I'm encouraged that it has been working for our author.
- lev99 8y agoI think it's probably better to train yourself to accurately estimate the calories in food than it is to assign food to clicks for two reasons. One, it's easier to measure calories in vs calories out if you use the same units for both. Two, adjusting the unit you are measuring (clicks vs calories) doesn't solve the problem of bad estimates. My calorie estimates are rarely off by the same percentage, often times my estimates on certain food will be off by 50% whole other food is spot on. 50% could be a choicing a few clicks less on certain high calorie foods causing your counting to be inaccurate.
- nategri 8y ago"Calories in calories out." Yes, hooray we've restated the 1st law of thermodynamics, because it's never wrong, and you can never be called out for saying something incorrect when you trot out that phrase. But it's also about as relevant to effective nutrition as it is to the current price of soybeans.
- rootusrootus 8y agoThe healthiest thing people could do is realize that the five year success rate for weight loss is about 1%, and those people in the 1% that maintain their weight loss invariably manage it by becoming obsessive with their calorie counting. Ergo, chasing a number is bad for your physical and mental health. Also, unless you're class 2 obese or above, you are probably healthier not losing any weight. Being thin is more about looks than actual health. Want to be healthy? Exercise. Toss the scale.
- kapauldo 8y agoI love this. He nailed the problem overweight people face and nailed why an app is too cumbersome to use when trying to control urges. One click is brilliant. I am looking forward to hearing if it worked.