4 ms·
There's a bit more to the subtext than that. The Axiom of Choice sounds quite innocuous: If you have a bunch of sets, you can construct a new set by picking on
by Dove 16y ago
There's a bit more to the subtext than that. The Axiom of Choice sounds quite innocuous: If you have a bunch of sets, you can construct a new set by picking one element out of each of them.
Turns out you can reason your way from that to "I can make any solid 3d object into any other solid 3d object just by cutting and rearranging the parts". (Banach-Tarski is often explained as the ability to turn one sphere into two, which is true, but the full implication is more along the lines of being able to rearrange a pea into the earth.) This is just one of many scary dragons that lurk in set theory.
Historically speaking, Banach-Tarski is why the Axiom of Choice is controversial. The other (I forget, nine?) axioms in ZFC, garner a tepid response--along the lines of, "Hooray, someone axiomatized set theory." But AC remained controversial for a long, long time. I cannot find the quote, but there was a mathematician who refused to accept the Axiom of Choice, and when asked about it, commented, "It is because I do not believe one and one make three." He was referencing Banach-Tarski.
That is the dilemma that has faced mathematicians historically: either reject something so innocuous as the Axiom of Choice or embrace something so nonsensical as the Banach-Tarski paradox. "Controversial" is putting it lightly; that's a hard decision. One still sees textbooks that flag all theorems depending on the axiom of choice, so you can reject them if you want to. I would say the field as a whole has come to embrace AC and accept Banach-Tarski; one of my professors one commented, "If we need the axiom of choice in this proof, we'll use it; why do mathematics with one arm tied behind your back?" I think this reflects the common attitude. But it wasn't an easy choice.
And that's the joke. If the guy didn't want one pumpkin to equal two, he should have gone the other way and rejected AC. It is not unfair to characterize Banach-Tarski as the sorry consequence of something mathematicians really wanted to do -- collateral damage, the lesser evil. One could regret it.
- Dylan16807 16y agoTo be more specific about what exactly the Axiom of Choice is: If you have a finite number of sets, you don't need the Axiom of Choice. You can enumerate them and pick out of each. If you have a rule to choose items, like picking the smallest element in a set of natural numbers, you don't need the Axiom of Choice. There is no choice to be made, you just follow the rule. The problems come out when you have an infinite number of sets and you pick items arbitrarily. This is what the Axiom of Choice allows you to do. Infinity is dangerous.
- Dove 16y agoActually, I think countably infinite sets of sets are okay, too. It's when you're allowed to choose an arbitrary element from an uncountably infinite number of sets that weird things start happening. (Not that I can call pedantery given the sheer number of who-cares-about-the-details glosses in my original comment ;) And I don't know that I'd call infinity dangerous so much as I'd call it sanity-stretchingly counterintuitive. Which makes sense, really. Where would we have developed intuitions for dealing with the infinite?