6 ms·

Rural suicides among farmers

57 points by wglb 8y ago

wglb 8y ago
Growing up on a Montana wheat farm, while we didn't use the phrase "cowboy up", there was always "is there a bone sticking out" toughen-up message. And we did have one of those 15 minute hailstorms, and a lot of nervous June months without rain.
- peatmoss 8y ago
  I grew up in suburban MT, and was one generation removed from rural MT. I never heard “cowboy up,” but “is there a bone sticking out” definitely checks out. The stresses of being in a rural state can be good and bad. Even in suburban MT, it would never have occured to my parents to be helicopter parents. Power tools, dangerous play, and “don’t you dare come inside unless you’re bleeding” were all par for the course. But the same stresses that result in kids’ freedom can also overwhelm some people. My own grandfather committed suicide, and I have to wonder if (even in a small town where he was well-loved) less isolation and more mental health services might have given him more years.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    The 'old men committing suicide' seems to be a thing. My own 85 year old father has been ratcheting up the idle talk about being a useless burden to his wife, etc, which makes me very nervous.
peatmoss 8y ago
If anyone wants a sound track to this tragic story, Pearl Jam’s “Elderly Woman Behind the Counter in a Small Town” is—I’m convinced—influenced by bassist Jeff Ament having grown up in Big Sandy, which is the town discussed in this article.
sparrish 8y ago
I'm from rural Eastern Colorado (think Kansas but you can see a mountain far off) and I've know farmers/ranchers who've committed suicide but I don't think any was due to financial stress. It's anecdotal but all were doing quite well. I think the lack of meaning in their lives due to farm subsidies in the form of soil conservation may be the root cause. Every farmer knows how the game is played. Do whatever it takes to get several years of high yields, then you'll be offered money from the gov to not farm, based on those yields. But nobody tells them about the depression that sets in when a farmer is paid to not farm - to loose the teleo of one's existence. It's sad to see and since those "soil conservation" contacts can be up to 10 years long, it's a long time to get out of that funk. Again, anecdotal, but I've never heard of a farmer who had land to work and the ability to work it commit suicide.
- mrec 8y ago
  Interesting. We have relatively high rural suicide rates in the UK too, and a similar "paid to not farm" situation via the EU's Common Agricultural Policy, but the causal waters are muddied here by farmers being among the very few people with access to firearms.
  - DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
    Farmers under the CAP aren’t just paid “to not farm” but also paid to perform conservation work, and fields that aren’t being used to grow crops can be used as pasture for livestock (to my understanding, please correct me if I’m wrong) and it’s also integrated into crop rotation (where you need a fallow-field for a couple of years anyway) - so I mean the concept of “being paid not to farm” is a misrepresentation.
    - mrec 8y ago
      I take your point, and I was mostly just pointing out the parallels with OP's description of the US (which also included "soil conservation"). For the CAP, my reading is that most of the payment really is just for "not farming" - the cross-compliance rules expect a bit more, yes, but the penalties for not doing so are pretty light - you only have a 1% chance of getting inspected per year, and even repeated and intentional noncompliance normally only knocks 20% off your payments. I'm looking at page 12 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/579836/Cross_Compliance_2017_rules_FINAL.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... - I'm not involved with farming though, so take anything I say with a generous pinch of salt.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jimnotgym 8y ago
Similar story from 8 months ago. I liked the top comment about farmers creating financial stress just to avoid tax. I have seen this effect myself https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861888 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861888
jpm_sd 8y ago
I'm not sure the person profiled supports the underlying thesis of the article. He was 82 and struggling with numerous health problems, suicide may have been a quasi-rational choice?
da02 8y ago
It says, "two out of three suicides in Montana are by firearm". What do 1/3 of the other people use?
- FooHentai 8y ago
  Assuming it follows the national trends, then the next most common are suffocation and poisoning.
- wglb 8y ago
  One car accidents as one example.
modells 8y ago
In Syria, ISIS, war against Assad and mass exodus is due entirely to the regime not helping farmers get water during a time drought and famine. No doubt many farmers also killed themselves, but the gamut of hardships fell on deaf Western ears.
bryanrasmussen 8y ago
wouldn't urban suicides among farmers be rare?

57 points by wglb 8y ago

wglb 8y ago

Growing up on a Montana wheat farm, while we didn't use the phrase "cowboy up", there was always "is there a bone sticking out" toughen-up message. And we did have one of those 15 minute hailstorms, and a lot of nervous June months without rain.

peatmoss 8y ago
I grew up in suburban MT, and was one generation removed from rural MT. I never heard “cowboy up,” but “is there a bone sticking out” definitely checks out. The stresses of being in a rural state can be good and bad. Even in suburban MT, it would never have occured to my parents to be helicopter parents. Power tools, dangerous play, and “don’t you dare come inside unless you’re bleeding” were all par for the course. But the same stresses that result in kids’ freedom can also overwhelm some people. My own grandfather committed suicide, and I have to wonder if (even in a small town where he was well-loved) less isolation and more mental health services might have given him more years.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  The 'old men committing suicide' seems to be a thing. My own 85 year old father has been ratcheting up the idle talk about being a useless burden to his wife, etc, which makes me very nervous.

peatmoss 8y ago

If anyone wants a sound track to this tragic story, Pearl Jam’s “Elderly Woman Behind the Counter in a Small Town” is—I’m convinced—influenced by bassist Jeff Ament having grown up in Big Sandy, which is the town discussed in this article.

sparrish 8y ago

I'm from rural Eastern Colorado (think Kansas but you can see a mountain far off) and I've know farmers/ranchers who've committed suicide but I don't think any was due to financial stress. It's anecdotal but all were doing quite well. I think the lack of meaning in their lives due to farm subsidies in the form of soil conservation may be the root cause. Every farmer knows how the game is played. Do whatever it takes to get several years of high yields, then you'll be offered money from the gov to not farm, based on those yields. But nobody tells them about the depression that sets in when a farmer is paid to not farm - to loose the teleo of one's existence. It's sad to see and since those "soil conservation" contacts can be up to 10 years long, it's a long time to get out of that funk. Again, anecdotal, but I've never heard of a farmer who had land to work and the ability to work it commit suicide.

mrec 8y ago
Interesting. We have relatively high rural suicide rates in the UK too, and a similar "paid to not farm" situation via the EU's Common Agricultural Policy, but the causal waters are muddied here by farmers being among the very few people with access to firearms.
- DaiPlusPlus 8y ago
  Farmers under the CAP aren’t just paid “to not farm” but also paid to perform conservation work, and fields that aren’t being used to grow crops can be used as pasture for livestock (to my understanding, please correct me if I’m wrong) and it’s also integrated into crop rotation (where you need a fallow-field for a couple of years anyway) - so I mean the concept of “being paid not to farm” is a misrepresentation.
  - mrec 8y ago
    I take your point, and I was mostly just pointing out the parallels with OP's description of the US (which also included "soil conservation"). For the CAP, my reading is that most of the payment really is just for "not farming" - the cross-compliance rules expect a bit more, yes, but the penalties for not doing so are pretty light - you only have a 1% chance of getting inspected per year, and even repeated and intentional noncompliance normally only knocks 20% off your payments. I'm looking at page 12 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/579836/Cross_Compliance_2017_rules_FINAL.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... - I'm not involved with farming though, so take anything I say with a generous pinch of salt.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jimnotgym 8y ago

Similar story from 8 months ago. I liked the top comment about farmers creating financial stress just to avoid tax. I have seen this effect myself https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861888 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861888

jpm_sd 8y ago

I'm not sure the person profiled supports the underlying thesis of the article. He was 82 and struggling with numerous health problems, suicide may have been a quasi-rational choice?

da02 8y ago

It says, "two out of three suicides in Montana are by firearm". What do 1/3 of the other people use?

FooHentai 8y ago
Assuming it follows the national trends, then the next most common are suffocation and poisoning.
wglb 8y ago
One car accidents as one example.

modells 8y ago

In Syria, ISIS, war against Assad and mass exodus is due entirely to the regime not helping farmers get water during a time drought and famine. No doubt many farmers also killed themselves, but the gamut of hardships fell on deaf Western ears.

bryanrasmussen 8y ago

wouldn't urban suicides among farmers be rare?