4 ms·

> it is way too expensive for regular gamers Gamers arent kids anymore. Amongst my friends that game, most are nearly 30 working excellent jobs in software.

snuxoll 8y ago
Doesn't matter if they aren't "kids" anymore or not, there's a reason AMD focused hard on the $200-300 range for graphics cards - because that's where most buyers budgets are. There are people who spend more, but even many enthusiasts are shopping in the $400-500 segment for a card to support high-refresh-rate gaming or higher resolutions like 1440P, the number of people who blow $800+ on a GPU like a 1080 Ti are few and far between in comparison.
- deadbunny 8y ago
  > the number of people who blow $800+ on a GPU like a 1080 Ti are few and far between in comparison. They always have been. Still doesn't stop those who can buying them.
  - snuxoll 8y ago
    Certainly not, but the infuriating part is historically the performance of those cards trickles down to the lower tiers at more reasonable prices as the generations go by. The GTX 1070 beat the GTX 980 Ti at an MSRP $200 less just one generation later, meanwhile at least from pure TFLOPS numbers the RTX 2080 is less powerful than the GTX 1080 Ti while costing around the same. One would be forgiven for expecting roughly GTX 1080 Ti performance in the RTX 2070 at around $449-499 USD.
    - viraptor 8y ago
      This all sounds like normal r&d and market forces. New stuff is low volume and premium prices. Once it becomes more common and more production lines are switched, the prices fall and the features get included into other models. This applies to virtually every product. Or did you want to highlight something else I missed?
      - snuxoll 8y ago
        The new products are launching at the same price point similarly specced parts from the previous generation have been selling at. "Low volume" doesn't really play when you're talking silicon manufacturing, when you spend millions of dollars to make a mask you want to get ROI on it quickly - the GTX 1070 sold at over $200 less than the GTX 980 Ti, for example, at launch. When you sell a product that actually has less compute performance (the RTX 2080) at the same price point as the higher-end part from the last generation (GTX 1080 Ti) something has gone horribly wrong. A lot of this is likely due to the Tensor/RTX units on the new GPU's taking up die space and there hasn't been an appropriate process shrink to make up for it, but it's all the more reason these are REALLY unappealing options for anyone outside the top-end enthusiast segment (the GTX 1070 is the most popular enthusiast card this generation, because even enthusiasts have budgets - which is usually the $400-500 range for GPUs). tl;dr; Prices here make no sense, cards with similar or less performance selling at the same price point you could get from the previous gen - just with raytracing support added on top (so it won't net you WORSE performance with this new functionality utilized). I don't know who Nvidia thinks is going to buy these from a gaming perspective.
        lugg 8y ago
        Lots of people. The hype around "ti" is unreal. Now they're changing it to "RTX" and "ti". /shock /awe /s To me, it's pretty clear NVIDIA is cashing out. Have you not noticed the market slaps the word gaming on commodity hardware along with a bunch of christmas lights and people happily pay a premium for it. Gamers aren't the brightest bunch and a $1000 is the right price point when people are gladly dropping that on a mobile phone now. Sure compared to a few years ago I'd agree with you, this market? this hype? No.
    - freeflight 8y ago
      Nvidia has a history of just sitting out their performance lead, see Geforce 8800 vs Geforce 9800. Even in the initially released marketing material, by Nvidia, the 8800 GTX had the obviously way better raw specs than the 9800 GTX. Took them a couple of days until they changed the material to compare on performance % in different games. But the 9800 GTX was actually a slower card than the one year older 8800 GTX due to lower memory bandwidth and capacity. As such it was competing against one generation older mid-range cards like the 8800 GTS 512.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  Nvidia's market cap is nearly 8x that of AMD. Volume =/= profit.
  - snuxoll 8y ago
    NVDA also has a significantly higher market share than AMD does right now, that doesn't change that $200-300 is still the most common price point for consumer GPU purchases. Current Steam user survey results (now that the over-counting issue has been fixed) shows the GTX 1060 as the single most popular GPU installed by active Steam users with a 12.5% market share, the GTX 1050 Ti and 1050 take second and third place with ~9.5% and ~6% respectively that means about 30% of Steam users have a current-gen GPU in the $200-300 price range. So yes, volume != profit, but the consumer obviously trends towards more reasonably priced cards. Cards in the Titan price-point that NVidia is trying to sell the RTX 2080 Ti at are so uncommon that they get lumped into the 'other' category of the Steam survey - and since I highly doubt magic like doing integer operations in tandem with FP32 operations is going to bring that much of a performance improvement to the majority of gaming workloads in tandem with the really weak raw numbers of the just-announced cards (fewer TFLOPS on the 2080 than the 1080 Ti selling in the same price bracket) it's obvious Nvidia is really taking the piss with their pricing. You're paying more for raytracing, that's it - and while it's certainly a cool feature I don't really see gamers caring that much until it becomes usable at that $200-300 price point.
    - ajsalminen 8y ago
      Where are the TFLOPS figures from? I don't think Nvidia has officially released those but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
      - bitL 8y ago
        https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/98xzfb/geforce_rtx_information_megathread/ https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/98xzfb/geforce_rtx_...
        8y ago
- georgeecollins 8y ago
  Yeah but you don't start by announcing the cheap card. You announce the expensive one and then lower the price.
gambiting 8y ago
I work in software, and I definitely can't spend that much on a GPU, a normal 2080 is more than my monthly rent. The prices are nuts.
- lagadu 8y ago
  They're really not. Compared to many other popular hobbies gaming's yearly cost is really low. Things like audio, photography, cars, warhammer, travelling, winter sports each will have yearly costs that make gaming seem cheap as hell.
  - oblio 8y ago
    Football (soccer) is cheap, so is basketball, traveling can be done on a budget (backpacking, hitchhiking). Board games or card games (not the collectible or trade-able cash-grabbing variety) are also cheap. There's many expensive hobbies, but also a ton of cheap ones.

snuxoll 8y ago

Doesn't matter if they aren't "kids" anymore or not, there's a reason AMD focused hard on the $200-300 range for graphics cards - because that's where most buyers budgets are. There are people who spend more, but even many enthusiasts are shopping in the $400-500 segment for a card to support high-refresh-rate gaming or higher resolutions like 1440P, the number of people who blow $800+ on a GPU like a 1080 Ti are few and far between in comparison.

deadbunny 8y ago
> the number of people who blow $800+ on a GPU like a 1080 Ti are few and far between in comparison. They always have been. Still doesn't stop those who can buying them.
- snuxoll 8y ago
  Certainly not, but the infuriating part is historically the performance of those cards trickles down to the lower tiers at more reasonable prices as the generations go by. The GTX 1070 beat the GTX 980 Ti at an MSRP $200 less just one generation later, meanwhile at least from pure TFLOPS numbers the RTX 2080 is less powerful than the GTX 1080 Ti while costing around the same. One would be forgiven for expecting roughly GTX 1080 Ti performance in the RTX 2070 at around $449-499 USD.
  - viraptor 8y ago
    This all sounds like normal r&d and market forces. New stuff is low volume and premium prices. Once it becomes more common and more production lines are switched, the prices fall and the features get included into other models. This applies to virtually every product. Or did you want to highlight something else I missed?
    - snuxoll 8y ago
      The new products are launching at the same price point similarly specced parts from the previous generation have been selling at. "Low volume" doesn't really play when you're talking silicon manufacturing, when you spend millions of dollars to make a mask you want to get ROI on it quickly - the GTX 1070 sold at over $200 less than the GTX 980 Ti, for example, at launch. When you sell a product that actually has less compute performance (the RTX 2080) at the same price point as the higher-end part from the last generation (GTX 1080 Ti) something has gone horribly wrong. A lot of this is likely due to the Tensor/RTX units on the new GPU's taking up die space and there hasn't been an appropriate process shrink to make up for it, but it's all the more reason these are REALLY unappealing options for anyone outside the top-end enthusiast segment (the GTX 1070 is the most popular enthusiast card this generation, because even enthusiasts have budgets - which is usually the $400-500 range for GPUs). tl;dr; Prices here make no sense, cards with similar or less performance selling at the same price point you could get from the previous gen - just with raytracing support added on top (so it won't net you WORSE performance with this new functionality utilized). I don't know who Nvidia thinks is going to buy these from a gaming perspective.
      - lugg 8y ago
        Lots of people. The hype around "ti" is unreal. Now they're changing it to "RTX" and "ti". /shock /awe /s To me, it's pretty clear NVIDIA is cashing out. Have you not noticed the market slaps the word gaming on commodity hardware along with a bunch of christmas lights and people happily pay a premium for it. Gamers aren't the brightest bunch and a $1000 is the right price point when people are gladly dropping that on a mobile phone now. Sure compared to a few years ago I'd agree with you, this market? this hype? No.
  - freeflight 8y ago
    Nvidia has a history of just sitting out their performance lead, see Geforce 8800 vs Geforce 9800. Even in the initially released marketing material, by Nvidia, the 8800 GTX had the obviously way better raw specs than the 9800 GTX. Took them a couple of days until they changed the material to compare on performance % in different games. But the 9800 GTX was actually a slower card than the one year older 8800 GTX due to lower memory bandwidth and capacity. As such it was competing against one generation older mid-range cards like the 8800 GTS 512.
jdietrich 8y ago
Nvidia's market cap is nearly 8x that of AMD. Volume =/= profit.
- snuxoll 8y ago
  NVDA also has a significantly higher market share than AMD does right now, that doesn't change that $200-300 is still the most common price point for consumer GPU purchases. Current Steam user survey results (now that the over-counting issue has been fixed) shows the GTX 1060 as the single most popular GPU installed by active Steam users with a 12.5% market share, the GTX 1050 Ti and 1050 take second and third place with ~9.5% and ~6% respectively that means about 30% of Steam users have a current-gen GPU in the $200-300 price range. So yes, volume != profit, but the consumer obviously trends towards more reasonably priced cards. Cards in the Titan price-point that NVidia is trying to sell the RTX 2080 Ti at are so uncommon that they get lumped into the 'other' category of the Steam survey - and since I highly doubt magic like doing integer operations in tandem with FP32 operations is going to bring that much of a performance improvement to the majority of gaming workloads in tandem with the really weak raw numbers of the just-announced cards (fewer TFLOPS on the 2080 than the 1080 Ti selling in the same price bracket) it's obvious Nvidia is really taking the piss with their pricing. You're paying more for raytracing, that's it - and while it's certainly a cool feature I don't really see gamers caring that much until it becomes usable at that $200-300 price point.
  - ajsalminen 8y ago
    Where are the TFLOPS figures from? I don't think Nvidia has officially released those but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
    - bitL 8y ago
      https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/98xzfb/geforce_rtx_information_megathread/ https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/98xzfb/geforce_rtx_...
      - 8y ago
georgeecollins 8y ago
Yeah but you don't start by announcing the cheap card. You announce the expensive one and then lower the price.

gambiting 8y ago

I work in software, and I definitely can't spend that much on a GPU, a normal 2080 is more than my monthly rent. The prices are nuts.

lagadu 8y ago
They're really not. Compared to many other popular hobbies gaming's yearly cost is really low. Things like audio, photography, cars, warhammer, travelling, winter sports each will have yearly costs that make gaming seem cheap as hell.
- oblio 8y ago
  Football (soccer) is cheap, so is basketball, traveling can be done on a budget (backpacking, hitchhiking). Board games or card games (not the collectible or trade-able cash-grabbing variety) are also cheap. There's many expensive hobbies, but also a ton of cheap ones.