7 ms·

It's unconventional given the liberal/libertarian aspects of the current movement, but this is a problem. I know at least two people very well, and a few more l

It's unconventional given the liberal/libertarian aspects of the current movement, but this is a problem. I know at least two people very well, and a few more less well who smoke - all - the - time. They vape it like tobacco. They are basically permanently 'kind of high' - completely functional, you'd never really know it to meet them ... but this is more than a little distressing. One is in finance, the other a healthcare practitioner, the others stay at home parents. It's a kind of new phenom that we need to grapple with because the 'bad effects' are not going to be so much chemical etc., they're going to be psychological and we're in kind of new territory.

marssaxman 8y ago
If you'd never really know it to meet them, what about their usage is distressing? Most people are "basically permanently 'kind of high'" on caffeine, or nicotine, or both. Is that distressing?
- craftyguy 8y ago
  They seem to be alluding to some unknown effects of being 'kind of high', but I agree with you.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  For one, I also have family members who are very alcoholic and 'you'd never know it' either, i.e. fairly highly functional. The effects of caffeine and nicotine are mild, and mostly physical. Especially with nicotine, it's a 'maintenance addiction' in that smoking in addicts is mostly to get to 'stay normal' because the body has adjusted dopamine receptors. A little bit similar with caffeine in that we build a tolerance. I don't think it's a stretch to consider that there might be some issues with a good chunk of society walking around stoned all day. I'd put 'drunk' in a similar category. The people who I know who are like this are themselves concerned but they can't seem to change their habits. It's not just a matter of 'physical/mental' state - they are basically different people in this mode and they know it.
  - meritt 8y ago
    > The effects of caffeine and nicotine are mild, and mostly physical The primary effect of caffeine is mental alertness.
  - citation_please 8y ago
    Mildly high isn't equivalent to stoned, and I don't think it's a stretch to consider that the might be some issues with everyone self-medicating for motivation and concentration with caffeine all day.
compcoffee 8y ago
>they're going to be psychological and we're in kind of new territory. It may be new territory for you, but I can assure you that grown adults have been smoking pot for a long time, and understand the psychological effects and their limits.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  No. I believe staying high all day changes people quite fundamentally, I feel this way because I know people who have changed due to it, and one whom I knew only as 'stoned always' who quit one day for no apparent reason and his life fundamentally changed. You probably have heard of him, actually.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
peterwwillis 8y ago
One in six Americans takes psychiatric prescription drugs, mostly antidepressants. Weed is basically an antidepressant and pain killer. I think the bigger question is, why are Americans self-medicating so much?
- mnm1 8y ago
  Poverty, loneliness, helplessness, hopelessness, lack of other healthcare options, lack of community, overwork, hate by others (racism, sexism, etc.), lack of any say in government, getting fucked over by companies over and over again, etc. I bet all those are top reasons for self-medicating in America. When you're one accident away from being homeless, alone, and have no hope of changing anything about your life, it's likely you'll self-medicate. When you can't get treatment for your work injury and have to work in pain all the time to keep from being homeless, you're likely to self-medicate. Do I really need to keep going? I think the causes of self-medication in America are incredibly obvious but most people choose to put their heads in the sand and not see them.
  - pc86 8y ago
    With the exception of healthcare options (and then only for a subset of Americans) none of these are problems unique to American life.
    - mnm1 8y ago
      I never claimed they were. They are quite ubiquitous in America, however.
    - moorhosj 8y ago
      Sure, but the discussion is about the fringes. The US has a higher poverty rate than most other developed nations. Poverty isn’t unique to American life, but it impacts a larger percentage of Americans than in French, Brits or Australians.
- wafflesraccoon 8y ago
  Is this an American only issue? I was under the impression that marijuana is very popular everywhere.
e40 8y ago
You didn't list what you think the problem is.
- idoh 8y ago
  The problem isn't listed because it viewed as self evident to some people. I'd list the problem of having high functional people who use marijuana everyday as: A - MJ, while a mild drug, is still a drug, and it seems like people who use it everyday are addicts. B - On the one hand I'm OK with people making their own decisions as to how they want to live their life, but on the other hand if we are talking about the type of society that we want to have, lots of people taking hallucinogens to get through the day doesn't exactly fit the image. Something seems wrong. C - We don't really know the long term impacts of doing this. It is probably somewhat bad somehow, even if we don't know exactly how.
  - wafflesraccoon 8y ago
    Small point, marijuana isn't a hallucinogen.
    - idoh 8y ago
      Fair point. It is psychoactive but not exactly a hallucinogen.
    - voice_of_reason 8y ago
      While it's generally true that it isn't, some strains may produce quite strong auditory and visual hallucinations for some users.
      - abraham_lincoln 8y ago
        Recommendations?
        voice_of_reason 8y ago
        Experiences produced by particular strain can vary wildly even for the same user, so it boils down to experimenting with different strains in different settings and finding out what works for you. Some users report that mixing strains of "haze" family tends to produce strong closed-eye visuals and mild open-eye ones. If your vision is affected by visual snow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow) or you are prone to have noticeable phosphene images with closed eyes, then it may be sufficient to simply focus on them while being high. The drug will greatly amplify your natural "hallucinations", subjectively up to the level of mild dose of psylocibin or LSD. Of course, taking those classic psychedelics is a more reliable way to produce visuals, but they come with headspace which is quite different (and for some less desirable and comfortable) from weed-induced one. The same focusing technique can work for monotonic sounds - it's quite amusing to observe how fridge's buzz turns into full-blown symphony :).
Benjammer 8y ago
>you'd never really know it to meet them >this is more than a little distressing But, I mean, that's just not how our current paradigm of mental health medicine works, afaik. A lot of mental health related diagnoses are entirely based on the effects to people's lives and ability to accomplish what they want in life. The disorder _is_ the effect on your life, it's not like some internal disease that will do it's work unnoticed and then suddenly kill you if untreated or something because your blah-count is abnormal and your foo-readings are off the charts. >the 'bad effects' are [...] _going to be_ psychological I don't think it's fair to postulate on future effects of things like this, when we have current, researched problems with society in this area that we aren't addressing, like the attention-rent-seeking behavior of basically all software today.
meritt 8y ago
> but this is more than a little distressing You are struggling with your own personal moral beliefs. You even stated they are "completely functional" yet you're significantly troubled by marijuana use while you have no issues with excessive use of caffeine and nicotine.
sonofblah 8y ago
Cross-generation, too--it will take a long time to know. (Usage isn't new, but it will increase.)
monocasa 8y ago
The fact that metabolized THC is a THC uptake inhibitor is a part of that.

marssaxman 8y ago

If you'd never really know it to meet them, what about their usage is distressing? Most people are "basically permanently 'kind of high'" on caffeine, or nicotine, or both. Is that distressing?

craftyguy 8y ago
They seem to be alluding to some unknown effects of being 'kind of high', but I agree with you.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
For one, I also have family members who are very alcoholic and 'you'd never know it' either, i.e. fairly highly functional. The effects of caffeine and nicotine are mild, and mostly physical. Especially with nicotine, it's a 'maintenance addiction' in that smoking in addicts is mostly to get to 'stay normal' because the body has adjusted dopamine receptors. A little bit similar with caffeine in that we build a tolerance. I don't think it's a stretch to consider that there might be some issues with a good chunk of society walking around stoned all day. I'd put 'drunk' in a similar category. The people who I know who are like this are themselves concerned but they can't seem to change their habits. It's not just a matter of 'physical/mental' state - they are basically different people in this mode and they know it.
- meritt 8y ago
  > The effects of caffeine and nicotine are mild, and mostly physical The primary effect of caffeine is mental alertness.
- citation_please 8y ago
  Mildly high isn't equivalent to stoned, and I don't think it's a stretch to consider that the might be some issues with everyone self-medicating for motivation and concentration with caffeine all day.

compcoffee 8y ago

>they're going to be psychological and we're in kind of new territory. It may be new territory for you, but I can assure you that grown adults have been smoking pot for a long time, and understand the psychological effects and their limits.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
No. I believe staying high all day changes people quite fundamentally, I feel this way because I know people who have changed due to it, and one whom I knew only as 'stoned always' who quit one day for no apparent reason and his life fundamentally changed. You probably have heard of him, actually.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

peterwwillis 8y ago

One in six Americans takes psychiatric prescription drugs, mostly antidepressants. Weed is basically an antidepressant and pain killer. I think the bigger question is, why are Americans self-medicating so much?

mnm1 8y ago
Poverty, loneliness, helplessness, hopelessness, lack of other healthcare options, lack of community, overwork, hate by others (racism, sexism, etc.), lack of any say in government, getting fucked over by companies over and over again, etc. I bet all those are top reasons for self-medicating in America. When you're one accident away from being homeless, alone, and have no hope of changing anything about your life, it's likely you'll self-medicate. When you can't get treatment for your work injury and have to work in pain all the time to keep from being homeless, you're likely to self-medicate. Do I really need to keep going? I think the causes of self-medication in America are incredibly obvious but most people choose to put their heads in the sand and not see them.
- pc86 8y ago
  With the exception of healthcare options (and then only for a subset of Americans) none of these are problems unique to American life.
  - mnm1 8y ago
    I never claimed they were. They are quite ubiquitous in America, however.
  - moorhosj 8y ago
    Sure, but the discussion is about the fringes. The US has a higher poverty rate than most other developed nations. Poverty isn’t unique to American life, but it impacts a larger percentage of Americans than in French, Brits or Australians.
wafflesraccoon 8y ago
Is this an American only issue? I was under the impression that marijuana is very popular everywhere.

e40 8y ago

You didn't list what you think the problem is.

idoh 8y ago
The problem isn't listed because it viewed as self evident to some people. I'd list the problem of having high functional people who use marijuana everyday as: A - MJ, while a mild drug, is still a drug, and it seems like people who use it everyday are addicts. B - On the one hand I'm OK with people making their own decisions as to how they want to live their life, but on the other hand if we are talking about the type of society that we want to have, lots of people taking hallucinogens to get through the day doesn't exactly fit the image. Something seems wrong. C - We don't really know the long term impacts of doing this. It is probably somewhat bad somehow, even if we don't know exactly how.
- wafflesraccoon 8y ago
  Small point, marijuana isn't a hallucinogen.
  - idoh 8y ago
    Fair point. It is psychoactive but not exactly a hallucinogen.
  - voice_of_reason 8y ago
    While it's generally true that it isn't, some strains may produce quite strong auditory and visual hallucinations for some users.
    - abraham_lincoln 8y ago
      Recommendations?
      - voice_of_reason 8y ago
        Experiences produced by particular strain can vary wildly even for the same user, so it boils down to experimenting with different strains in different settings and finding out what works for you. Some users report that mixing strains of "haze" family tends to produce strong closed-eye visuals and mild open-eye ones. If your vision is affected by visual snow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow) or you are prone to have noticeable phosphene images with closed eyes, then it may be sufficient to simply focus on them while being high. The drug will greatly amplify your natural "hallucinations", subjectively up to the level of mild dose of psylocibin or LSD. Of course, taking those classic psychedelics is a more reliable way to produce visuals, but they come with headspace which is quite different (and for some less desirable and comfortable) from weed-induced one. The same focusing technique can work for monotonic sounds - it's quite amusing to observe how fridge's buzz turns into full-blown symphony :).

Benjammer 8y ago

>you'd never really know it to meet them >this is more than a little distressing But, I mean, that's just not how our current paradigm of mental health medicine works, afaik. A lot of mental health related diagnoses are entirely based on the effects to people's lives and ability to accomplish what they want in life. The disorder _is_ the effect on your life, it's not like some internal disease that will do it's work unnoticed and then suddenly kill you if untreated or something because your blah-count is abnormal and your foo-readings are off the charts. >the 'bad effects' are [...] _going to be_ psychological I don't think it's fair to postulate on future effects of things like this, when we have current, researched problems with society in this area that we aren't addressing, like the attention-rent-seeking behavior of basically all software today.

meritt 8y ago

> but this is more than a little distressing You are struggling with your own personal moral beliefs. You even stated they are "completely functional" yet you're significantly troubled by marijuana use while you have no issues with excessive use of caffeine and nicotine.

sonofblah 8y ago

Cross-generation, too--it will take a long time to know. (Usage isn't new, but it will increase.)

monocasa 8y ago

The fact that metabolized THC is a THC uptake inhibitor is a part of that.