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The scientists who starved to death surrounded by food
- hi41 8y agoI don't think I can do what the scientists did. I can't skip even a single meal. What could have driven there men to do this? Is it the integrity they gained by practicing their religion? Or is it their commitment to humanity's welfare?
- 0xcafecafe 8y ago> After over a year-and-a-half of eating frozen cabbage and moldy flour, Nikolai Vavilov—the man who taught us about agricultural diversity and plant origins, and who spent fifty years of his life trying to end famine— died of starvation. The guy who basically set up the seed vault was killed by his own people he was trying to help. Very depressing.
- myth_drannon 8y agoAnd on the other side was a guy(Lysenko) who sent him to Gulag and his theories caused the death of millions. The guy with better social-sales skills can sell his false theories versus the smart guy who mumbles in the corner. I notice it a lot in the data science community.
- mindentropy 8y agoI notice it a lot in the corporates. If you have to climb the ladder or get a good offer you have to be buddy of another questionable character or have brilliant social skills. Engineering skills be damned. When they are about to be found out it is either too late or they will jump somewhere else.
- ggm 8y agoThe next time somebody refutes the Churchill "then why are we fighting" quote (he didn't say it, according to Snopes) we now have this story to point to. Churchill's comments before the war were about the arts, but this one about the sciences fits in the same niche: If you believed in the role of the seed bank/collection, eating it was the last thing on your mind.
- rule_follower 8y agoThe man who founded the seedbank was sent to the gulag and sentenced to death for calling out Lysenko as a fraud. The Soviets failed to evacuate the contents of the seedbank, leaving it to be destroyed or raided. I don't understand how allying with such a government can be deemed a natural consequence of seeking to preserve knowledge and culture. The heroes in this story are solely the individual scientists.
- Asooka 8y agoIt was a necessary evil at the time to stop the Nazis, which were a more immediate threat to the West. Note that immediately after the war, relations with the Soviets cooled significantly.
- skrebbel 8y agoA bit off topic, I find it a bit ironic that you bring up Churchill in a discussion about famine, given that he was directly responsible for the starvation of millions of Indians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 I keep being surprised how true it is that the victors get to write the history books. Churchill killed a third as many people as Hitler did but people generally seem to be OK with that.
- NeedMoreTea 8y agoChurchill directly responsible? 1. The UK had a coalition government and a war cabinet of 9 not a dictatorship by Churchill, so "directly responsible" is pure hyperbole. 2. Burma fell in 42 from which point Bengal lost previous regular rice imports and was now on the front line with the Japanese. 3. Many of the Indian states under their respective Maharajas applied trade restrictions with Bengal after the fall of Burma, through 42 starting with Punjab. That significantly heightened food shortages and profiteering. It was the inability to internally import rice that was perhaps the largest single factor. 4. Bengal was inundated with half a million refugees fleeing Burma. 5. At that point in the war there was little could be done to prevent Japanese attacks in the Bay of Bengal. The War Cabinet did indeed decline Mountbatten's requests for shipping food due to expected losses. 6. A series of natural disasters in the region, including extensive crop disease and a cyclone that killed 15,000 and spread the disease spores widely. Churchill personally could have prevented all that, at the height of the war? Now had you pointed at Bengal's governor, who made some questionable decisions during the crisis, I think you'd have had more of a case.
- snorrah 8y agoCouldn’t read the story because of awful redirecting ads to fake YouTube and amazon sites telling me I’d won something.
- ai_ja_nai 8y agoGet yourself uBlock Origin
- not_kurt_godel 8y agoAlso Privacy Badger
- freedomben 8y agoSad. My web experience improved drastically when I started blocking javascript by default. uMatrix is a life saver.
- sinuhe69 8y ago...or when you are on iPad, get Dr. WiFi. It also included an ad blocker.
- code_duck 8y agoI’ve been surprised at how many legitimate sites have those redirecting ‘sweepstakes’ ads these days - sites like politico that you wouldn’t expect to have spammy trick ads. I find it annoying enough - no idea how less technical users handle that.
- ai_ja_nai 8y agoPoor guys; that's really all I can say now.
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoThe story of Vavilov and his disciples is the subject of the song "When the War Came" by the Decemberists, which is haunting enough even if you don't know the story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJHOiQ2uniU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJHOiQ2uniU
- ratacat 8y agoOooh thanks for this! That's awesome
- maxxxxx 8y agoIt's a common theme in dystopian stories that in times of crisis people quickly use up the resources they will need for survival when things get better. I guess they should be viewed as heroes.
- Pinktree 8y agothey're definetely heroes to me now... you're right!
- new_guy 8y agoHonestly, I can't imagine I would have done the same. They were true heroes.
- unit91 8y agoWhy not? Learn what it is to be courageous and loving, and decide now that if the situation arises you will do it.
- DoreenMichele 8y agoHe taught himself 15 languages so that he could speak with native farmers. For me, this line sums up the dedication of the founder of this seed bank. He traveled extensively and worked tirelessly. It bothers me that this whole thing is news to me.
- Aeolun 8y agoTo some extend. In a way, it’s really heartening that there’s enough of these people that I can keep reading about new ones over the course of my life.
- dolzenko 8y agoI think the OP point is about e.g. you and me most likely knowing about Kim Kardashian though never having an intention to so to speak :D
- Insanity 8y agoI can't even begin to imagine what that must be like. How do you resist such temptation is beyond me.
- ellyagg 8y agoAt least for some people, urgent hunger passes after a few days. My brother has done a few full fasts and after a week he didn't feel hungry anymore. YMMV. There was another incident, a case study in the early 70s, where a very obese man went on a full fast under researcher supervision and lost all his excess weight in a year or so. https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/49/569/203.full.pdf https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/49/569/203.full.pdf
- spaceflunky 8y agoThat paper is fascinating. But I wonder how his mental and cognitive states were during the fast? Also 37-48 days between bowel movements O_O
- code_duck 8y agoIf you don’t eat any fiber, there’s really nothing happening in your bowels. I’ve been on a mainly liquid diet at times this year with tiny bowel movements about once a week, just because there is nothing being put in there. I haven’t experienced any apparent problems related to that. Mental and cognitive states while slowly starving: not that good
- was_boring 8y agoYep. I've done a few of these and it takes me about 3 days before I no longer feel the need to eat. I'm also the type of person who frequently forgets to eat lunch and breakfast.
- koube 8y agoObligatory: The guy who did it did an AMA and says you should absolutely not do it ever and it was a bad idea. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1o5ndh/iama_guy_who_went_from_430_pounds_to_170_pounds/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1o5ndh/iama_guy_who_w... He does agree with you though, says he stopped feeling hungry after a few weeks.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- delbel 8y agoI'm having serious doubts about the authenticity of this story if you know or understand anything about what the Bolsheviks did to intellectuals in this era, I think you would to.
- DoreenMichele 8y agoen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Vavilov Vavilov's work was criticized by Trofim Lysenko, whose anti-Mendelian concepts of plant biology had won favor with Joseph Stalin. As a result, Vavilov was arrested and subsequently sentenced to death in July 1941. Although his sentence was commuted to twenty years' imprisonment, he died of starvation in prison in 1943. The Leningrad seedbank was diligently preserved through the 28-month Siege of Leningrad. While the Soviets had ordered the evacuation of art from the Hermitage, they had not evacuated the 250,000 samples of seeds, roots, and fruits stored in what was then the world's largest seedbank. A group of scientists at the Vavilov Institute boxed up a cross section of seeds, moved them to the basement, and took shifts protecting them. Those guarding the seedbank refused to eat its contents, even though by the end of the siege in the spring of 1944, nine of them had died of starvation. The article also indicates his reputation was rehabilitated posthumously: In 1955, Vavilov's death sentence was posthumously reversed at a hearing of the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the Soviet Union, undertaken as part of a de-Stalinization effort to review Stalin-era death sentences. By the 1960s his reputation was publicly rehabilitated and he began to be hailed as a hero of Soviet science.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- delbel 8y agoso the lead scientist didn't die trying to save the seed bank, he was arrested " in 1940, charged with serious crimes that were fabricated; then was tortured, tried, found guilty, and sentenced to death by firing squad. Later, his sentence was commuted to 20 years in prison, but his jailors starved him to death in 1943. " .. then a year later nine other scientist died of starvation according to the Soviets. Yeah call me a skeptic on this. I bet they just sentence his fellow scientist with the same crime and then later when they found out he was right, re-wrote the story. Again, serious doubts. Source #14 in the wikipedia article The Murder of Nikolai Vavilov https://www.amazon.com/Murder-Nikolai-Vavilov-Stalins-Persecution/dp/1451656491 https://www.amazon.com/Murder-Nikolai-Vavilov-Stalins-Persec...
- forrestthewoods 8y agoThere's an awesome 99% Invisible podcast on this. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-vault/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-vault/
- jonnycomputer 8y agoAll hail; the epitome of what it to be human.
- itissid 8y agoAgriculture Scientists are really heroes of the 20th century. 1. In statistics max likelihood method was developed and used to great effect and continues to this day, was developed by Fisher[1] 2. Norman Borlaug saved India and Pakistan from famine in the midst of literally a war that is worthy of a movie[2]. [1] https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.ss/1030037906 https://projecteuclid.org/euclid.ss/1030037906 [2] https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/green-giant-6389547 https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/green-giant-6389547
- dmix 8y agoOuch Borlaug saves millions from starvation and revolutionizes agricultural and no one knows his name. Oh well, he knew what he accomplished, the other scientists seem to hold him in high regard, and I'm sure he was able to live comfortably.
- macintux 8y agoWest Wing fans know his name. There are more than a few of us.
- fipple 8y agoIn terms of people who accomplished great things but were never recognized for it in their lifetimes you can find a lot sadder stories than a man who won the Nobel Prize.
- j7ake 8y agoActually he saved over a billion lives. He won the Nobel Peace Prize, the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal. Not exactly a nobody. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug
- dogma1138 8y agoSadly today this wouldn’t have worked out as well. Dwarf wheat which was created by irradiating seeds would’ve been tarnished by the anti-GMO crowd just like what happened to golden rice. It seems that uneducated people who can afford $19 avocados are the only ones who we listen to these days when it comes to feeding the planet. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice
- Pinktree 8y agowow... this is one of the saddest and beautiful stories that i'll ever read why don't they talk about stuff like that on schools? history would be a lot more interesting, to discuss about facts like that and just evolve... i'm really new(18) and when i see People talking st to my generation i can't help but keep quiet and accept it is true... i feel like stuff need to change... the world has a lot of students but a tiny amount of learners
- sizzle 8y agoWish more people your age were as curious and interested to learn about the past, seems like a rare quality to have in today's age of instant gratification. Keep the curiosity alive friend!
- seer 8y agoHopefully there are talanted creators that produce some new engaging media on those topics. I’m personally a big fan of the “Extra History” youtube channel that has quite a lot of those inspiring little nuggets of history that people seem to have forgotten. And “Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History” for a deep dive into different historical eras. I’m hoping that future teachers would just recommend or even assign listening to / watching additional sources like those.
- johnalamos 8y agoDirty commies
- hi41 8y agoI am deeply moved by the heroism of these scientists. This goes way beyond ethics to one's profession.
- 8bitsrule 8y agoThis Nat.Geo. story from 2011 ('Food Ark') describes Vavilov, and mentions that there were 'some 1,400 seed banks around the world' at that time. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2011/07/food-ark/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2011/07/food-ark... Looks like the UK's 'Millenium Seed Bank' is the world's largest wild-plant repository. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Seed_Bank_Partnership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Seed_Bank_Partnersh...
- delbel 8y agoThere is absolute no way this story can be true. My previous comment was flagged, but this story is so ridiculous i have to repost it(yes I don't care). Any farmer, like myself, would know, you can sprout seeds without light. Let's just say they were stuck somewhere without sunlight. These botanist would know which breeds were common -- like Russian Buckwheat. Because it was probably stored in at the minimum 50 pounds, they would have been able to sprout the common seeds, the ones they knew they could re-fulfill easily (it grows wild in Russia), and live off just the sprouts. If they had just a little bit of sunlight, they could go back to seed -- buckwheat goes to seed really quick and produces plentiful of seeds. They had access to a whole variety of seeds and the knowledge to know this. What probably happened was that the Bolsheviks, after torturing and imprisoning their leader the year before -- then starving him to death, did the same thing with his fellow scientist. Then they came up with this romantic story to hide it. Again, as a farmer, this story is absolutely impossible. You give me 5 seeds and I'll have 100 acres growing (via clones, forced flower, etc) by spring. In this era the soviets went after all intellectuals -- they were hunted down, and their families, tortured, starved and killed. The goal of the Bolsheviks was to kill as many people that could oppose their agenda. I'm just not going to take any narrative from them as true unless there is solid evidence.
- scotty79 8y agoI think sprout that didn't have any sun wouldn't have more calories than just the seed ground to flour.
- singularity2001 8y agoThere is probably no way this story can be true because of human nature. Telling that people put scientific ideals above hunger just sounds like a later propaganda tale. Maybe the founder had enough food and let the guardians starve.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- pvaldes 8y agoCan't fall to mention that biological collections are routinely treated and coated with poisons to deter rodents and insects, so, even if they come from edible species, aren't edible in itself. This means that in a post-apocaliptic scenery you coulnd't just go to a museum and eat safely a butterfly collection or an herbarium, not matter how hungry you are. Would be also really silly to save uncoated valuable seeds in the fortress of solitude when the first human finding it would need to consume the seeds just to stay alive and be able to return home with the seeds. If not done yet, we should probably store an alternative source of food and fat in the same place to be eaten by the future scouts before allowing them to enter in the real collection.
- kriro 8y agoI was searching for pictures of the scientists and found this medium series that has them, in case anyone else is thinking about using them as inspirational pictures for their office: https://medium.com/thecodex/martyrs-for-botany-part-2-48bce29eedf7 https://medium.com/thecodex/martyrs-for-botany-part-2-48bce2...
- FabHK 8y agoTragic and edifying story, only marred in my opinion by the "amusing" moniker hovering above it.
- grecy 8y ago> Others froze to death in the streets while trying to walk a few kilometers to food distribution kiosks in −30 °C weather Ugh. No need for the exaggeration. All winter long for 4 years I rode my bike to work in the Yukon in temps between -30C and -40C. I happily walk, snowshoe, ski and fish in temps between -30C and -40C. I have been snowshoeing for hours in -48C (North of Arctic Circle in mid-November). Obviously the people in the article were hungry and tired, but I severely, severely doubt anyone that lived there would freeze to death trying to walk "a few kilometers". Maybe if it was 20km+.
- mrintegrity 8y ago"Obviously the people in the article were hungry and tired" The people were in a state of starvation, your ability to walk distances in freezing conditions is linked to the amount of fat on your bones and the quality of clothing, pretty sure neither of those were very optimal at the time.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoThe amount of privilege evident in this comment is absolutely astounding. You should be ashamed of yourself.
- hycaria 8y agoBecause giving out free morale lessons is to be saluted ? Another poster responded quite appropriately before you, why did you feel like shaming someone ?
- dang 8y agoI agree with you the that commenter's conditions were not comparable to those of people starving in a war. But please don't respond to a bad comment with a worse one, and please keep the online shaming culture off this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html