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The variation of this that I usually ask is, "What salary do you need to maintain a comfortable cost of living and what do you consider a fair salary given your
by jnovek 8y ago
The variation of this that I usually ask is, "What salary do you need to maintain a comfortable cost of living and what do you consider a fair salary given your experience and the job requirements?"
Depending on my flexibility in the hiring process I may give them a realistic estimate of my budget as well.
I want to set the stage for the best information symmetry I can (given the circumstances). This makes salary negotiations closer to a collaborative game than a competitive one. I've even told candidates that their ask is unrealistically low for their experience level.
Salary negotiation is the first moment in a trust-based relationship. To me it's very odd that we start that trust-based relationship with a very high-stakes competitive problem that relies heavily on information asymmetry.
- sneak 8y agoThis is absolutely terrible advice.
- 1000units 8y agoIt has nothing to do with trust. They just vetted your abilities and decided you can make them money. Now you're fighting for your cut. This also has nothing to do with how much you "need". I need a cabin and an axe. I want half of what I'm bringing to the table, and that's what matters to both of us.
- DannyBee 8y agoWhat you said is "I don't trust you so i'm instead going to assume you are out to get me and screw me as hard as i let you". That has everything to do with trust.
- 1000units 8y agoA twenty-two year old straight out of school might think you're his friend. I know, and you know, we aren't friends. Don't ask me what I need. That's none of your business. I don't need anything. Tell me what I'm worth to you, then pick a respectful cut. I already have a good idea about the right number, and I'll fight for it, because I've already made people a lot of money. They weren't friends either, but we've sure as hell shaken hands with genuine shit-eating grins on our faces because we're capable professionals, and we didn't pretend. That's the recipe for success.
- che_shirecat 8y agoIf I ever heard "What salary do you need to maintain a comfortable cost of living and what do you consider a fair salary given your experience and the job requirements?" I'd be walking straight out of the interview. That just screams "cheap" and gives off the impression that you don't value your technical talent. If I wanted a "fair" salary that just covered my cost of living I'd be doing something other than software engineering
- 0xEFF 8y agoFairness is a good value to build a relationship of trust. I worked with an engineer with this mindset of, "the company is out to get me" at an early stage startup. They left after a few years and started their own company. They couldn't recruit and grow. I turned down their offer because I didn't trust them. I didn't trust them because I was well aware of their distrustful mindset when working in a small group setting. I had a different mindset during the early stages of the startup, one closer to a model of trust with the company on compensation, quality, and level of effort. I also left to start my own company and I've had no trouble attracting people, both employees and sub-contractors. There is some merit to an adversarial mindset but it's a liability in the early stages of a company and it leaves a lasting impression on your reputation.
- dbt00 8y agoI've had a colleague with that mindset too. I didn't join his next venture. I'm glad I didn't.
- DannyBee 8y agoAnd if your response to an open and honest question is to immediately assume a whole bunch of stuff about the intent/etc of the people asking, i'm pretty sure they wouldn't want you.
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago> What salary do you need to maintain a comfortable cost of living That is a stupid question to ask. For anyone competent that I would ever want to hire, the amount that they need (unless they have a bad gambling habit or have made some terrible financial decisions) will be much less than the amount that they would ever accept.
- Aeolun 8y agoI mean, they’re welcome to the answer for this, but it’s not particularly applicable to the salary negotiation.
- abraham_lincoln 8y agoMaybe you and parent have a differing interpretation of what 'comfortable' means in such a context.
- usaar333 8y agoPlenty of people, especially engineers with families, have lifestyle costs that exceed what a startup will comp in cash. (Lifestyle is supported by current job offering bonuses or liquid equity).
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoThe only issue on the table is, what are the job and my skills worth? How I spend the money, as a job candidate, is an irrelevant personal question. The employer is the one bringing the job and money to the table. I'm bringing skills and the potential for success to the table. No employer would imagine they could not describe the job, why is it they can imagine they can not describe the money? Its all in their court. I'm with the folks who are suggesting, say nothing about the money, let them do the talking.