11 ms·

What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

125 points by tomohawk 8y ago

ericjang 8y ago
Hypothetically speaking, if one is opposed to some or all aspects of the "One China" doctrine, what can one do locally/globally to effect change? Or is the annexation of Taiwan a near-certainty via the forces of economics?
- dleslie 8y ago
  It will be interesting to see if/when China moves to economically censure a G8 country for engaging in trade with Taiwan.
  - nabla9 8y ago
    Of course not. PRC is itself engaging in trade with Taiwan. This is about handful of tiny countries who still maintain formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan. For example United States is not formally recognizing Taiwan as a country.
    - hkai 8y ago
      It's entirely possible if Taiwan has an even more pro-democracy government than it has now. I can imagine China can easily sacrifice the entire trade with Taiwan if the sensitive issues are concerned.
  - hkai 8y ago
    Could US be the first in a few years? Given the outrage when Taiwanese president visited a Taiwanese coffee shop in LA last week. European countries appear to be content to please the Chinese government, be it on trade or in academia.
  - Leary 8y ago
    Do you think China will gain more from censuring a country from engaging in trade with Taiwan? Has China ever done so?
    - prewett 8y ago
      They severely reduced the amount of trade with Norway for six years after Norway gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a Chinese dissident. That's not Taiwan, but I think that if they'd be willing to do that for a dissident, how much more so regarding Taiwan. The Chinese government has a solid history of attempting to control actions of other countries by "punishing" their businesses when they do something China doesn't like.
- everybodyknows 8y ago
  Direct action: Book a vacation to Palau. Tip the locals, generously.
- skh 8y ago
  I believe that Taiwan will eventually merge with the mainland. Perhaps via the two-systems one China route that Hong Kong did. The claims of mainland China on Taiwan are understandable and I don't fault them for their perspective on the issue. Is the United States really willing to go to war with China over this? I don't think so. Are Thailand, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines willing to go to war with China? China's desire for Taiwan far exceeds the willingness of others to fight them over it. This is especially so since China is taking the long range approach. They aren't going to outright invade Taiwan. It's akin to a death by a thousand cuts. Slowly, but surely, they inch their way to control.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Retric 8y ago
    Taiwan has a relatively strong military and while China would easily win any war, it would be crazy to fight it’s military.
    - h4b4n3r0 8y ago
      As the past 60 years of US Military action have made abundantly clear, even for the best military on the planet by quite a margin no war is “easy” to win. Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do, but even then it’s not “easy”, especially if you plan to take permanent control of the territory afterwards. For that to happen, the overwhelming majority of the country has to _want_ such control, and the remaining people have to not be too heavily invested in the idea of independence. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you see in Taiwan.
      - tepidandroid 8y ago
        > Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do Please qualify this statement.
        8y ago
- empath75 8y ago
  I don’t have a dog in this fight either way, but the us doesn’t seem particularly interested in defending our allies anywhere right now, so I imagine that China is going to start flexing its muscles in more and more obvious ways. I think even if you think trump is an anomoly, America is tiring of maintaining the post WWII order, and China is only just ramping up its interest in expanding its sphere of influence.
  - rectang 8y ago
    Russian interference in US elections has made a lot of Americans more hostile to autocracies. The effect varies in strength with political affiliation, and different groups within the country have held different levels of animus to autocracy over decades. But there is a base level of fundamental conflict between liberal society and illiberal society that never goes away.
- ballooney 8y ago
  Don't buy stuff that's made in China, and optionally (but importantly) then email that CEO of the company whose stuff you decided not to buy that was made in China, explaining why. The dragon doesn't care what you say about it so long as it's still being fed.
  - enraged_camel 8y ago
    The dragon is not going to care about what the ants are doing. It will only care if other dragons start taking collective action. “Vote with your wallet” is bullshit.
    - jacksproit 8y ago
      Vote with your wallet is very effective with an educated populace.
      - ohazi 8y ago
        So essentially, not effective at all.
  - Leary 8y ago
    Why does Foxconn have its operations in Mainland China when it's a Taiwanese firm? Should I email them and convince them to move out of China?
    - tsuabing 8y ago
      So? Many other countries have factories in China. But now even Samsung has most production in Vietnam. I have no doubt Foxconn will move most of production out of China soon. Foxconn is investing heavily in India production. Yes, you should email Apple to tell them to move out of China.
      - Leary 8y ago
        Okay, who should I send my email to? Do you think customer service will work? Or do you think calling them is a better bet.
- knuththetruth 8y ago
  Be critical and unsupportive of American businesses that work with the CCP. Cite explicitly their human rights record and policy on Taiwan. Don't swallow narratives about the vaguely positive outcomes that could come from collaboration with the regime, nor unquestioningly embrace ideologies that requires expansion into the mainland as a moral or logical necessity.
- mistermann 8y ago
  > Hypothetically speaking, if one is opposed to some or all aspects of the "One China" doctrine, what can one do locally/globally to effect change? Voting with your wallet or voicing your concerns seem fairly futile to me. What I believe could make a difference is trying to educate people on what the honest (non-partisan) reality of the situation is, to the best of your ability. When you encounter someone online stating something that is untrue (flat out wrong, generalized to the point of important detail being missed, mischaracterization of news or literature), speak up with a more accurate representation of the truth. The goal of this is not to change the mind of the person who has written something untrue (although that's a nice side benefit in the rare case it happens), it is for the hundreds/thousands of other readers who subconsciously form opinions based on the entirety of information they consume, so they they at least have a chance of hearing lesser-biased versions of reality.
  - anoncow2018sund 8y ago
    From what I see, the problem isn't so much with the truth, but rather the narrative and interpretation of these facts. For example, suppose a vaccine had a 90% success rate. This is the truth, however anti-vaxxers will focus on the 10% failure rate. Both China and Taiwan agree there was a civil war and the losers retreated to Taiwan. However, the narrative of the event is where it differs.
    - mistermann 8y ago
      > From what I see, the problem isn't so much with the truth, but rather the narrative and interpretation of these facts. Exactly. > For example, suppose a vaccine had a 90% success rate. This is the truth, however anti-vaxxers will focus on the 10% failure rate. And pro-vaxxers will "focus" (ie: discuss that, and only that) the success rate. But if you don't cover up the 10% and someone finds out, this is how "conspiracy theories" get started.
- anoncow2018sund 8y ago
  The intermarriage rate between Mainland Chinese and Taiwanese is extremely high. Something like 80% of all international marriages in Taiwan are with Mainland Chinese. There are also a ton of Taiwanese that are studying and working in China. China recently passed a law that lets Taiwanese have the same access to benefits as locals, e.g. healthcare, schools for kids, buying property, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if within a few generations, every Taiwanese has a direct connection with Mainland China again, either through a spouse, friends, or through work. When that time comes, I can see reunification happen naturally. And for those people who think 1 country, 2 systems is bad because of Hong Kong, take a look at Macau. They are in a similar situation, but there are no protests there at all due to all the economic benefits they got. So if China can do that to Taiwan, I think they will be accepted with open arms.
honestabe2 8y ago
Hey, you guys that are submitting these China related links. It really doesn't matter. Most articles that discuss bad things about current China will be flagged into oblivion. (but articles talking how bad US is are still ok). But fluff articles discussing ancient Chinese stuff like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17792329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17792329 are perfectly fine. Haven't you heard? YC is in China helping to create startups for Chinese government??
joe_the_user 8y ago
Palau is a great place but also a place that doesn't have trouble courting international controversy. They were among the only countries willing to take ex-prisoners from Guantanamo Bay and were willing to refuse some large tourist hotel investments. As one of the best destinations for scuba and snorkling in the world, I think Palau will be fine despite Chinese sanctions.
imbokodo 8y ago
Empty hotels? What happens when Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Uganda, Libya etc. upset the USA? That's in the past decade. Oh sorry, that's whataboutism. Let me listen more to Americans sanctimoniously rattle on about empty hotels in some remote island caused by another remote country, while the US tortures and bombs the hell out of people all over the world.
amaccuish 8y ago
> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.
- antidesitter 8y ago
  > And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. Do you have more information about this?
  - mcculley 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... The embargo is still in effect. I recently took a cruise to Havana. I was annoyed at the frequent reminders to those of us passengers who are US citizens about our restrictions on engaging in unallowed economic activity. Passengers who were not citizens of the Land of the Free have no such restrictions.
- gaoshan 8y ago
  I remember this basic "argument" from my childhood. After getting caught doing something of dubious moral value a child would say "Well everyone else is doing it". You knew it was wrong but you did it anyway and justified it by pointing out that "everyone else" did it. One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. Probably never happen since people are the same everywhere and really only like to point out shortcomings when they aren't the beneficiary but it would be so nice to find that there actually is an adult somewhere in the room.
  - gerdesj 8y ago
    One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. I like your parent/child allusion and who wouldn't? However, there is no parent available that could cuff the miscreant and make it all good. Besides: what exactly is "the good thing"?
nabla9 8y ago
Most of the world, including the UN, the US, EU, Japan, South Korea, India, Russia and practically everybody else is not formally recognizing Taiwan. Handful of small countries have still diplomatic relations with Taiwan, but I don't know what the significance is.
- pishpash 8y ago
  There is no significance. Taiwan gave them some money. Palau will be fine and certainly weighed which decision gives more money. These places go back and forth like churning credit card bonuses. China could pay every one of them more so that there are no countries recognizing Taiwan as the "one China" but why bother? They are left as chips to send a message when needed.
coldtea 8y ago
Tourism drops. I'd contrast that with other countries, which e.g. topple governments or downright invade, but that would be whataboutism, and whataboutism is bad /s
- hkai 8y ago
  I think it is reasonable to expect China to topple foreign governments in the near future. It has a powerful military, a highly nationalist government and an ambition to own at least everything within the Nine Dash Line, or more. And that's pretty scary because we in Hong Kong have felt the chilling effect of Chinese meddling into the judiciary, media and government.
  - Leary 8y ago
    Where outside of the Nine Dash Line does China want to own?
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Hong Kong? The part of China since millennia that a foreign colonial power, after invading China who did nothing to them, "rented"?
- google_censors 8y ago
  That's not actually whataboutism, it's false equivalence, something I see a lot of Chinese commenters using to defend the country's abusive tactics. Name a situation where a country recognizing another country resulted in an invasion by the United States?
rb808 8y ago
Elsewhere https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/cup-of-coffee-costs-24120-million-for-firm-facing-china-backlash/ar-BBLZZdR https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/cup-of-coffee-costs-2... > Gourmet Master Co. slumped 7.5 percent in Taipei trading Thursday, wiping $120 million from its market value, after a newspaper in China published calls to boycott the chain for hosting the Taiwanese leader at a store in Los Angeles. also https://www.yahoo.com/news/taiwan-airlines-being-dragged-china-093525528.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/taiwan-airlines-being-dragged-chi... > On April 25, a letter from the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) landed on the desks of 36 international air carriers. In it, the CAAC reminded readers that on February 27 the Chinese government had instructed airlines to review their websites, and remove any material that “mistakenly” identified Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong as independent regions.
microcolonel 8y ago
The funny thing is, the more the CPC throws tantrums to insist that Taiwan is in "China", the less legitimate it sounds.
pishpash 8y ago
None of this is news, and the only reason it's now all over the place is probably because the State Department or some three lettered agencies gave a directive to ramp up the propaganda machine. For those with longer memories, from 1949 to 1979, the US and most of the world denied that (the current) China existed and recognized Taiwan as China. The game has been played for decades now.
Simulacra 8y ago
I’m actually hoping Trump formally recognizes Taiwan. That’s the real sledge hammer. In all of their negotiations with China on trade, I’m really curious if that has come up as a threat.
- chibg10 8y ago
  Really, I'm not entirely sure why the G-8, the G-20, or even just EU + US + Japan + SK doesn't just do this as a group. It's not like China has a feasible retaliation option if they did, and it's certainly not going to retreat back to pre-1980 style isolation.
  - Simulacra 8y ago
    SK will never do it because it might destroy the progress on NoKo. Japan would, EU probably not. Germany might, U.K. won't until EU exit deals are done, Canada might, Australia won't, not in their interest. It'd be interesting!
glasslion 8y ago
What happens when a country become a puppet state of USA

125 points by tomohawk 8y ago

Hypothetically speaking, if one is opposed to some or all aspects of the "One China" doctrine, what can one do locally/globally to effect change? Or is the annexation of Taiwan a near-certainty via the forces of economics?

dleslie 8y ago
It will be interesting to see if/when China moves to economically censure a G8 country for engaging in trade with Taiwan.
- nabla9 8y ago
  Of course not. PRC is itself engaging in trade with Taiwan. This is about handful of tiny countries who still maintain formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan. For example United States is not formally recognizing Taiwan as a country.
  - hkai 8y ago
    It's entirely possible if Taiwan has an even more pro-democracy government than it has now. I can imagine China can easily sacrifice the entire trade with Taiwan if the sensitive issues are concerned.
- hkai 8y ago
  Could US be the first in a few years? Given the outrage when Taiwanese president visited a Taiwanese coffee shop in LA last week. European countries appear to be content to please the Chinese government, be it on trade or in academia.
- Leary 8y ago
  Do you think China will gain more from censuring a country from engaging in trade with Taiwan? Has China ever done so?
  - prewett 8y ago
    They severely reduced the amount of trade with Norway for six years after Norway gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a Chinese dissident. That's not Taiwan, but I think that if they'd be willing to do that for a dissident, how much more so regarding Taiwan. The Chinese government has a solid history of attempting to control actions of other countries by "punishing" their businesses when they do something China doesn't like.
everybodyknows 8y ago
Direct action: Book a vacation to Palau. Tip the locals, generously.
skh 8y ago
I believe that Taiwan will eventually merge with the mainland. Perhaps via the two-systems one China route that Hong Kong did. The claims of mainland China on Taiwan are understandable and I don't fault them for their perspective on the issue. Is the United States really willing to go to war with China over this? I don't think so. Are Thailand, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines willing to go to war with China? China's desire for Taiwan far exceeds the willingness of others to fight them over it. This is especially so since China is taking the long range approach. They aren't going to outright invade Taiwan. It's akin to a death by a thousand cuts. Slowly, but surely, they inch their way to control.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 8y ago
  Taiwan has a relatively strong military and while China would easily win any war, it would be crazy to fight it’s military.
  - h4b4n3r0 8y ago
    As the past 60 years of US Military action have made abundantly clear, even for the best military on the planet by quite a margin no war is “easy” to win. Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do, but even then it’s not “easy”, especially if you plan to take permanent control of the territory afterwards. For that to happen, the overwhelming majority of the country has to _want_ such control, and the remaining people have to not be too heavily invested in the idea of independence. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you see in Taiwan.
    - tepidandroid 8y ago
      > Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do Please qualify this statement.
      - 8y ago
empath75 8y ago
I don’t have a dog in this fight either way, but the us doesn’t seem particularly interested in defending our allies anywhere right now, so I imagine that China is going to start flexing its muscles in more and more obvious ways. I think even if you think trump is an anomoly, America is tiring of maintaining the post WWII order, and China is only just ramping up its interest in expanding its sphere of influence.
- rectang 8y ago
  Russian interference in US elections has made a lot of Americans more hostile to autocracies. The effect varies in strength with political affiliation, and different groups within the country have held different levels of animus to autocracy over decades. But there is a base level of fundamental conflict between liberal society and illiberal society that never goes away.
ballooney 8y ago
Don't buy stuff that's made in China, and optionally (but importantly) then email that CEO of the company whose stuff you decided not to buy that was made in China, explaining why. The dragon doesn't care what you say about it so long as it's still being fed.
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  The dragon is not going to care about what the ants are doing. It will only care if other dragons start taking collective action. “Vote with your wallet” is bullshit.
  - jacksproit 8y ago
    Vote with your wallet is very effective with an educated populace.
    - ohazi 8y ago
      So essentially, not effective at all.
- Leary 8y ago
  Why does Foxconn have its operations in Mainland China when it's a Taiwanese firm? Should I email them and convince them to move out of China?
  - tsuabing 8y ago
    So? Many other countries have factories in China. But now even Samsung has most production in Vietnam. I have no doubt Foxconn will move most of production out of China soon. Foxconn is investing heavily in India production. Yes, you should email Apple to tell them to move out of China.
    - Leary 8y ago
      Okay, who should I send my email to? Do you think customer service will work? Or do you think calling them is a better bet.
knuththetruth 8y ago
Be critical and unsupportive of American businesses that work with the CCP. Cite explicitly their human rights record and policy on Taiwan. Don't swallow narratives about the vaguely positive outcomes that could come from collaboration with the regime, nor unquestioningly embrace ideologies that requires expansion into the mainland as a moral or logical necessity.
mistermann 8y ago
> Hypothetically speaking, if one is opposed to some or all aspects of the "One China" doctrine, what can one do locally/globally to effect change? Voting with your wallet or voicing your concerns seem fairly futile to me. What I believe could make a difference is trying to educate people on what the honest (non-partisan) reality of the situation is, to the best of your ability. When you encounter someone online stating something that is untrue (flat out wrong, generalized to the point of important detail being missed, mischaracterization of news or literature), speak up with a more accurate representation of the truth. The goal of this is not to change the mind of the person who has written something untrue (although that's a nice side benefit in the rare case it happens), it is for the hundreds/thousands of other readers who subconsciously form opinions based on the entirety of information they consume, so they they at least have a chance of hearing lesser-biased versions of reality.
- anoncow2018sund 8y ago
  From what I see, the problem isn't so much with the truth, but rather the narrative and interpretation of these facts. For example, suppose a vaccine had a 90% success rate. This is the truth, however anti-vaxxers will focus on the 10% failure rate. Both China and Taiwan agree there was a civil war and the losers retreated to Taiwan. However, the narrative of the event is where it differs.
  - mistermann 8y ago
    > From what I see, the problem isn't so much with the truth, but rather the narrative and interpretation of these facts. Exactly. > For example, suppose a vaccine had a 90% success rate. This is the truth, however anti-vaxxers will focus on the 10% failure rate. And pro-vaxxers will "focus" (ie: discuss that, and only that) the success rate. But if you don't cover up the 10% and someone finds out, this is how "conspiracy theories" get started.
anoncow2018sund 8y ago
The intermarriage rate between Mainland Chinese and Taiwanese is extremely high. Something like 80% of all international marriages in Taiwan are with Mainland Chinese. There are also a ton of Taiwanese that are studying and working in China. China recently passed a law that lets Taiwanese have the same access to benefits as locals, e.g. healthcare, schools for kids, buying property, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if within a few generations, every Taiwanese has a direct connection with Mainland China again, either through a spouse, friends, or through work. When that time comes, I can see reunification happen naturally. And for those people who think 1 country, 2 systems is bad because of Hong Kong, take a look at Macau. They are in a similar situation, but there are no protests there at all due to all the economic benefits they got. So if China can do that to Taiwan, I think they will be accepted with open arms.

honestabe2 8y ago

Hey, you guys that are submitting these China related links. It really doesn't matter. Most articles that discuss bad things about current China will be flagged into oblivion. (but articles talking how bad US is are still ok). But fluff articles discussing ancient Chinese stuff like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17792329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17792329 are perfectly fine. Haven't you heard? YC is in China helping to create startups for Chinese government??

joe_the_user 8y ago

Palau is a great place but also a place that doesn't have trouble courting international controversy. They were among the only countries willing to take ex-prisoners from Guantanamo Bay and were willing to refuse some large tourist hotel investments. As one of the best destinations for scuba and snorkling in the world, I think Palau will be fine despite Chinese sanctions.

imbokodo 8y ago

Empty hotels? What happens when Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Uganda, Libya etc. upset the USA? That's in the past decade. Oh sorry, that's whataboutism. Let me listen more to Americans sanctimoniously rattle on about empty hotels in some remote island caused by another remote country, while the US tortures and bombs the hell out of people all over the world.

amaccuish 8y ago

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

antidesitter 8y ago
> And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. Do you have more information about this?
- mcculley 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... The embargo is still in effect. I recently took a cruise to Havana. I was annoyed at the frequent reminders to those of us passengers who are US citizens about our restrictions on engaging in unallowed economic activity. Passengers who were not citizens of the Land of the Free have no such restrictions.
gaoshan 8y ago
I remember this basic "argument" from my childhood. After getting caught doing something of dubious moral value a child would say "Well everyone else is doing it". You knew it was wrong but you did it anyway and justified it by pointing out that "everyone else" did it. One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. Probably never happen since people are the same everywhere and really only like to point out shortcomings when they aren't the beneficiary but it would be so nice to find that there actually is an adult somewhere in the room.
- gerdesj 8y ago
  One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. I like your parent/child allusion and who wouldn't? However, there is no parent available that could cuff the miscreant and make it all good. Besides: what exactly is "the good thing"?

nabla9 8y ago

Most of the world, including the UN, the US, EU, Japan, South Korea, India, Russia and practically everybody else is not formally recognizing Taiwan. Handful of small countries have still diplomatic relations with Taiwan, but I don't know what the significance is.

pishpash 8y ago
There is no significance. Taiwan gave them some money. Palau will be fine and certainly weighed which decision gives more money. These places go back and forth like churning credit card bonuses. China could pay every one of them more so that there are no countries recognizing Taiwan as the "one China" but why bother? They are left as chips to send a message when needed.

coldtea 8y ago

Tourism drops. I'd contrast that with other countries, which e.g. topple governments or downright invade, but that would be whataboutism, and whataboutism is bad /s

hkai 8y ago
I think it is reasonable to expect China to topple foreign governments in the near future. It has a powerful military, a highly nationalist government and an ambition to own at least everything within the Nine Dash Line, or more. And that's pretty scary because we in Hong Kong have felt the chilling effect of Chinese meddling into the judiciary, media and government.
- Leary 8y ago
  Where outside of the Nine Dash Line does China want to own?
- coldtea 8y ago
  Hong Kong? The part of China since millennia that a foreign colonial power, after invading China who did nothing to them, "rented"?
google_censors 8y ago
That's not actually whataboutism, it's false equivalence, something I see a lot of Chinese commenters using to defend the country's abusive tactics. Name a situation where a country recognizing another country resulted in an invasion by the United States?

rb808 8y ago

Elsewhere https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/cup-of-coffee-costs-24120-million-for-firm-facing-china-backlash/ar-BBLZZdR https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/cup-of-coffee-costs-2... > Gourmet Master Co. slumped 7.5 percent in Taipei trading Thursday, wiping $120 million from its market value, after a newspaper in China published calls to boycott the chain for hosting the Taiwanese leader at a store in Los Angeles. also https://www.yahoo.com/news/taiwan-airlines-being-dragged-china-093525528.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/taiwan-airlines-being-dragged-chi... > On April 25, a letter from the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) landed on the desks of 36 international air carriers. In it, the CAAC reminded readers that on February 27 the Chinese government had instructed airlines to review their websites, and remove any material that “mistakenly” identified Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong as independent regions.

microcolonel 8y ago

The funny thing is, the more the CPC throws tantrums to insist that Taiwan is in "China", the less legitimate it sounds.

pishpash 8y ago

None of this is news, and the only reason it's now all over the place is probably because the State Department or some three lettered agencies gave a directive to ramp up the propaganda machine. For those with longer memories, from 1949 to 1979, the US and most of the world denied that (the current) China existed and recognized Taiwan as China. The game has been played for decades now.

Simulacra 8y ago

I’m actually hoping Trump formally recognizes Taiwan. That’s the real sledge hammer. In all of their negotiations with China on trade, I’m really curious if that has come up as a threat.

chibg10 8y ago
Really, I'm not entirely sure why the G-8, the G-20, or even just EU + US + Japan + SK doesn't just do this as a group. It's not like China has a feasible retaliation option if they did, and it's certainly not going to retreat back to pre-1980 style isolation.
- Simulacra 8y ago
  SK will never do it because it might destroy the progress on NoKo. Japan would, EU probably not. Germany might, U.K. won't until EU exit deals are done, Canada might, Australia won't, not in their interest. It'd be interesting!

glasslion 8y ago

What happens when a country become a puppet state of USA