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Even more complicated: The country of The Netherlands does not border France, but the Kingdom of The Netherlands does, as St. Maarten is a separate country with

by crote 8y ago

Even more complicated: The country of The Netherlands does not border France, but the Kingdom of The Netherlands does, as St. Maarten is a separate country within the kingdom. St. Maarten isn't part of the EU, but St. Martin is. But inhabitants of St. Maarten are EU citizens, and there is no hard border between the two parts even though there should be one, as this is a border of the Schengen Area. This means that I, a citizen of the country of The Netherlands with a identity card but without a passport, am allowed to travel directly to France via Belgium, and I can book a flight and enter St. Martin, but I am not allowed to visit St. Maarten!

nolok 8y ago
Your last part interest me, what do citizens of the netherlands have to do to visit St. Maarten or other parts of the Kingdom of The Netherlands ? Get a visa ? In France we differentiate between parts of France proper (mainalnd France, Corsica, Guiana), our overseas departments (used to be more complicated but now they're "almost" parts of France), and our overseas collectivity like St. Martin. But as a French citizen I can visit pretty much any that I want without the need to ask anyone for permission. Additionnaly, how is "your" part of the Island governed; fully autonomous or has the royal family (real/actual) oversight or is the governement of the Netherland overseeing it or ... ? Our way is mostly "they have their local governement but if the French one tells them something they do it". It's interesting to me, especially since New Caledonia being the only dependance who didn't ask to be integrated but to move away will have to decide between autonomy or independance
- Someone 8y ago
  I think ”with a identity card but without a passport” is the essential phrase. EU citizens don’t need a passport to travel within the EU. St Martin is in the EU, so crote can freely travel there. St Maarten is not, so crote will need a passport to travel there.
- Bayart 8y ago
  The difference between mainland France and overseas territories is administrative, not constitutional (with the exception of New Caledonia as you pointed out).
- crote 8y ago
  "Someone" got it right, you need to have a passport. A visa is only required for stays exceeding 180 days a year. You also need to book a return ticket. The Netherlands (the country) also has overseas territories, namely Bonaire, Saba, and St. Eustatius. They are considered regular municipalities, but you still need to have a passport to visit them. They also have some duration limitations to prevent migration from the mainland. About the governance: Long story short, it's complicated. Some laws apply to the Kingdom so they're for both continental and overseas, but most laws are made only for country of The Netherlands. The other countries are mostly self-governing, including making their own laws, but stuff like international treaties and military is done on the Kingdom level, which in practice means it's done by the Country. To give an example: after Irma, St. Maarten had to formally ask The Netherlands for help, otherwise the military would not have been allowed to give any assistance, as it could be considered an invasion. In general, any form of intervention is seen as a form of neo-colonialism. We try to intervene as little as possible.
dmurray 8y ago
I don't think this is true. French overseas departments aren't in the Schengen area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
- crote 8y ago
  Interesting, I did not know this! That makes it even more interesting that Dutch citizens can visit it without carrying a passport (see https://www.anwb.nl/vakantie/sint-maarten/informatie/reisdocumenten https://www.anwb.nl/vakantie/sint-maarten/informatie/reisdoc...)
  - biggusdickus 8y ago
    You can visit other EU non-Schengen countried/teritorries with just an ID card. For example, Croatia.
  - Scarblac 8y ago
    It's still in the EU, and identity cards are valid within the EU.

by crote 8y ago

nolok 8y ago

Your last part interest me, what do citizens of the netherlands have to do to visit St. Maarten or other parts of the Kingdom of The Netherlands ? Get a visa ? In France we differentiate between parts of France proper (mainalnd France, Corsica, Guiana), our overseas departments (used to be more complicated but now they're "almost" parts of France), and our overseas collectivity like St. Martin. But as a French citizen I can visit pretty much any that I want without the need to ask anyone for permission. Additionnaly, how is "your" part of the Island governed; fully autonomous or has the royal family (real/actual) oversight or is the governement of the Netherland overseeing it or ... ? Our way is mostly "they have their local governement but if the French one tells them something they do it". It's interesting to me, especially since New Caledonia being the only dependance who didn't ask to be integrated but to move away will have to decide between autonomy or independance

Someone 8y ago
I think ”with a identity card but without a passport” is the essential phrase. EU citizens don’t need a passport to travel within the EU. St Martin is in the EU, so crote can freely travel there. St Maarten is not, so crote will need a passport to travel there.
Bayart 8y ago
The difference between mainland France and overseas territories is administrative, not constitutional (with the exception of New Caledonia as you pointed out).
crote 8y ago
"Someone" got it right, you need to have a passport. A visa is only required for stays exceeding 180 days a year. You also need to book a return ticket. The Netherlands (the country) also has overseas territories, namely Bonaire, Saba, and St. Eustatius. They are considered regular municipalities, but you still need to have a passport to visit them. They also have some duration limitations to prevent migration from the mainland. About the governance: Long story short, it's complicated. Some laws apply to the Kingdom so they're for both continental and overseas, but most laws are made only for country of The Netherlands. The other countries are mostly self-governing, including making their own laws, but stuff like international treaties and military is done on the Kingdom level, which in practice means it's done by the Country. To give an example: after Irma, St. Maarten had to formally ask The Netherlands for help, otherwise the military would not have been allowed to give any assistance, as it could be considered an invasion. In general, any form of intervention is seen as a form of neo-colonialism. We try to intervene as little as possible.

dmurray 8y ago

I don't think this is true. French overseas departments aren't in the Schengen area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

crote 8y ago
Interesting, I did not know this! That makes it even more interesting that Dutch citizens can visit it without carrying a passport (see https://www.anwb.nl/vakantie/sint-maarten/informatie/reisdocumenten https://www.anwb.nl/vakantie/sint-maarten/informatie/reisdoc...)
- biggusdickus 8y ago
  You can visit other EU non-Schengen countried/teritorries with just an ID card. For example, Croatia.
- Scarblac 8y ago
  It's still in the EU, and identity cards are valid within the EU.