4 ms·

Slightly off topic maybe, but it always surprises people that the Netherlands has a border with France. It’s just in the Caribbean on the island of St. Maarten

by tnolet 8y ago

Slightly off topic maybe, but it always surprises people that the Netherlands has a border with France. It’s just in the Caribbean on the island of St. Maarten / Saint Martin. Obligatory YouTube clip “Holland vs. The Netherlands” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc

GijsjanB 8y ago
Thank you for this insight! I am using this for our yearly New Year's Eve quiz! (I'm Dutch)
forinti 8y ago
You could say that France has a border with Brazil because of French Guiana. And that the Netherlands also had a border with Brazil until 1975.
- nolok 8y ago
  Note that while St Martin is an oversea collectivity, whereas we consider Guiana to be an actual part of France not a territory or collectivity or dependance or ... (the same way we did with Algeria). So France the (geo)political entity and France the country absolutely has a border with Brasil, and it is its largest land border.
eCa 8y ago
Likewise, there’s a bridge between France and Brazil[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyapock_River_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyapock_River_Bridge
crote 8y ago
Even more complicated: The country of The Netherlands does not border France, but the Kingdom of The Netherlands does, as St. Maarten is a separate country within the kingdom. St. Maarten isn't part of the EU, but St. Martin is. But inhabitants of St. Maarten are EU citizens, and there is no hard border between the two parts even though there should be one, as this is a border of the Schengen Area. This means that I, a citizen of the country of The Netherlands with a identity card but without a passport, am allowed to travel directly to France via Belgium, and I can book a flight and enter St. Martin, but I am not allowed to visit St. Maarten!
- nolok 8y ago
  Your last part interest me, what do citizens of the netherlands have to do to visit St. Maarten or other parts of the Kingdom of The Netherlands ? Get a visa ? In France we differentiate between parts of France proper (mainalnd France, Corsica, Guiana), our overseas departments (used to be more complicated but now they're "almost" parts of France), and our overseas collectivity like St. Martin. But as a French citizen I can visit pretty much any that I want without the need to ask anyone for permission. Additionnaly, how is "your" part of the Island governed; fully autonomous or has the royal family (real/actual) oversight or is the governement of the Netherland overseeing it or ... ? Our way is mostly "they have their local governement but if the French one tells them something they do it". It's interesting to me, especially since New Caledonia being the only dependance who didn't ask to be integrated but to move away will have to decide between autonomy or independance
  - Someone 8y ago
    I think ”with a identity card but without a passport” is the essential phrase. EU citizens don’t need a passport to travel within the EU. St Martin is in the EU, so crote can freely travel there. St Maarten is not, so crote will need a passport to travel there.
  - Bayart 8y ago
    The difference between mainland France and overseas territories is administrative, not constitutional (with the exception of New Caledonia as you pointed out).
  - crote 8y ago
    "Someone" got it right, you need to have a passport. A visa is only required for stays exceeding 180 days a year. You also need to book a return ticket. The Netherlands (the country) also has overseas territories, namely Bonaire, Saba, and St. Eustatius. They are considered regular municipalities, but you still need to have a passport to visit them. They also have some duration limitations to prevent migration from the mainland. About the governance: Long story short, it's complicated. Some laws apply to the Kingdom so they're for both continental and overseas, but most laws are made only for country of The Netherlands. The other countries are mostly self-governing, including making their own laws, but stuff like international treaties and military is done on the Kingdom level, which in practice means it's done by the Country. To give an example: after Irma, St. Maarten had to formally ask The Netherlands for help, otherwise the military would not have been allowed to give any assistance, as it could be considered an invasion. In general, any form of intervention is seen as a form of neo-colonialism. We try to intervene as little as possible.
BrandoElFollito 8y ago
Thanks, that was not taught in school in France 30 years agi and is not now either (may have been in the meantime)

by tnolet 8y ago

GijsjanB 8y ago

Thank you for this insight! I am using this for our yearly New Year's Eve quiz! (I'm Dutch)

forinti 8y ago

You could say that France has a border with Brazil because of French Guiana. And that the Netherlands also had a border with Brazil until 1975.

nolok 8y ago
Note that while St Martin is an oversea collectivity, whereas we consider Guiana to be an actual part of France not a territory or collectivity or dependance or ... (the same way we did with Algeria). So France the (geo)political entity and France the country absolutely has a border with Brasil, and it is its largest land border.

eCa 8y ago

Likewise, there’s a bridge between France and Brazil[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyapock_River_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyapock_River_Bridge

crote 8y ago

Even more complicated: The country of The Netherlands does not border France, but the Kingdom of The Netherlands does, as St. Maarten is a separate country within the kingdom. St. Maarten isn't part of the EU, but St. Martin is. But inhabitants of St. Maarten are EU citizens, and there is no hard border between the two parts even though there should be one, as this is a border of the Schengen Area. This means that I, a citizen of the country of The Netherlands with a identity card but without a passport, am allowed to travel directly to France via Belgium, and I can book a flight and enter St. Martin, but I am not allowed to visit St. Maarten!

nolok 8y ago
Your last part interest me, what do citizens of the netherlands have to do to visit St. Maarten or other parts of the Kingdom of The Netherlands ? Get a visa ? In France we differentiate between parts of France proper (mainalnd France, Corsica, Guiana), our overseas departments (used to be more complicated but now they're "almost" parts of France), and our overseas collectivity like St. Martin. But as a French citizen I can visit pretty much any that I want without the need to ask anyone for permission. Additionnaly, how is "your" part of the Island governed; fully autonomous or has the royal family (real/actual) oversight or is the governement of the Netherland overseeing it or ... ? Our way is mostly "they have their local governement but if the French one tells them something they do it". It's interesting to me, especially since New Caledonia being the only dependance who didn't ask to be integrated but to move away will have to decide between autonomy or independance
- Someone 8y ago
  I think ”with a identity card but without a passport” is the essential phrase. EU citizens don’t need a passport to travel within the EU. St Martin is in the EU, so crote can freely travel there. St Maarten is not, so crote will need a passport to travel there.
- Bayart 8y ago
  The difference between mainland France and overseas territories is administrative, not constitutional (with the exception of New Caledonia as you pointed out).
- crote 8y ago
  "Someone" got it right, you need to have a passport. A visa is only required for stays exceeding 180 days a year. You also need to book a return ticket. The Netherlands (the country) also has overseas territories, namely Bonaire, Saba, and St. Eustatius. They are considered regular municipalities, but you still need to have a passport to visit them. They also have some duration limitations to prevent migration from the mainland. About the governance: Long story short, it's complicated. Some laws apply to the Kingdom so they're for both continental and overseas, but most laws are made only for country of The Netherlands. The other countries are mostly self-governing, including making their own laws, but stuff like international treaties and military is done on the Kingdom level, which in practice means it's done by the Country. To give an example: after Irma, St. Maarten had to formally ask The Netherlands for help, otherwise the military would not have been allowed to give any assistance, as it could be considered an invasion. In general, any form of intervention is seen as a form of neo-colonialism. We try to intervene as little as possible.

BrandoElFollito 8y ago

Thanks, that was not taught in school in France 30 years agi and is not now either (may have been in the meantime)