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IMO the 2015 Macbook Pro is one of the best laptops ever made. Don't know why they went and messed that up. I solidly regret the 2017 version. I've had one key

IMO the 2015 Macbook Pro is one of the best laptops ever made. Don't know why they went and messed that up. I solidly regret the 2017 version. I've had one keyboard replacement already (that required the logic board to be replaced, seriously). Since then, I've already lost two keycaps. I've been ordering replacements online because they wanted me to ship it out for repair. My 2015 Macbook is being used daily by a friend and is still in perfect shape. Worst thing that happened with that one is that I wore the letters off some of the keys. My next laptop will probably not be a mac.

radley 8y ago
I'm running a mid 2012 i7 MBP (bought at release) w/ 16GB & a 2TB SSD (recently upgraded from a 1TB SSD). I also have a keyboard overlay as a precaution, since I've had to replace keyboards on previous Macs due to spills or sloppy cleaning. My 2012 is decent, but 2013 - 1015 MBPs are the best.
- SalimoS 8y ago
  Me too have to 2012 no retina MBP, I upgraded the HDD to an SSD 500Gb and the RAM from 4GB to 10BG Im more than satisfied but still stressed when I think about the upgrade
- bluecat22 8y ago
  I think the issue will be that either your Mac will be unsupported for OSX Mojave or at most in an year or so while your machine physically will still be in good working condition.
  - jsjohnst 8y ago
    > I think the issue will be that either your Mac will be unsupported What precedent do you have for believing that to be true? The only time Apple has done that in the past is major platform changes (aka PowerPC and later 32bit CoreDuos). Unless Apple shifts to ARM (which is easily a couple years out at best) or Intel comes out with a 128bit processor (which isn’t even remotely on the roadmap), I’d say you are safe for at least another five years, even if those shifts do happen.
    - shimms 8y ago
      My 2012 Mac Pro (cheese grater) can’t run Mojave since the GPU doesn’t support Metal. There are aftermarket GPUs available, but it’s becoming an ongoing chore to keep the machine running the latest macOS features (needed new wifi card to support handoff and watch unlock etc). New wifi, SSD, usb3 etc are relatively cheap. The new GPU is getting more expensive and is now actually blocking keeping up to date with major OS releases. There is no other Mac I currently want to buy (desktop, my own display). MacMini is too underspecced, MacProvis about to be updated and aside from GPU isn’t really any better than my current MacPro - feels end of life and outdated from day 1, a non-starter for me. So I’ll probably get a new GPU and hope that buys me another couple of years.
      - Aloha 8y ago
        What wifi card is needed?
        shimms 8y ago
        For unlock with watch an AC card with beam forming (factory was N), for handoff/continuity Bluetooth 4 (from memory, may be wrong).
        Aloha 8y ago
        I was looking for a particular model :-P
        shimms 8y ago
        Oh sorry, I totally misread you question and thought you asked what it is needed for. I got the kit from OSX wifi: http://osxwifi.com/apple-broadcom-bcm94360cd-802-11-a-b-g-n-ac-bluetooth-4-0-with-adapter-for-macpro-2009-and-macpro-2010 http://osxwifi.com/apple-broadcom-bcm94360cd-802-11-a-b-g-n-... Works well, had a bit of trouble getting unlock with watch working, but then all of a sudden started, so not sure what that was about, but been good since then.
      - 8y ago
  - radley 8y ago
    Considering the lackluster updates of OSX / MacOS, and the fact that the platform matured years ago, I'm not really concerned that I won't be able to use Mojave. I think the only issue will be if I need to use XCode, which tends to be bound to the latest OS.
- dfee 8y ago
  I hate the idea of using a cover, but I probably should. Do you have a recommendation?
- volkl48 8y ago
  The main issue with a 2012 is that the hard drive cables fail constantly. But the part is cheap and even the technically clueless could replace it themselves with YouTube or ifixit.
  - SyneRyder 8y ago
    Tell me about it! I'm using a 2012 MBP right now, and I love it, except that every 2 - 3 months the hard drive flex cable fails (except for one period where it happened to last 2 years). I'm on my 4th cable, and Apple isn't offering any remedy except "when it breaks again, bring it in again and we'll replace it for free again". At least the last time I took it in, the guy replaced it on the spot in 15 minutes while I waited. Every other time they've needed to keep the device for a week to replace the cable... I've had a lot of downtime with this machine.
    - miles 8y ago
      Electrical tape works wonders, especially as a preventative: MacBook Pro Hard Drive Cable Failure - Free fix and preventative maintenance - Question mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amg5w0rlwDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amg5w0rlwDo
      - SyneRyder 8y ago
        Oh wow, that's the first time I've seen the actual damage. It's so small that no wonder I couldn't see it. I've still got a month left on my AppleCare, but once that expires I'll give it a try. Thank you!
    - robdachshund 8y ago
      Lol the hdd is connected with a flex cable? Why isn't the SATA port soldered to the board? Good god
DenisM 8y ago
No one ever gets a promotion by leaving a 3-year old design intact.
- x0x0 8y ago
  Or to courage your customers into wasting $70-$400 more per laptop in dongles to retain basic functionality. Like USB-A or HDMI.
- llampx 8y ago
  Macbooks have basically looked the same since the TiBook days, getting just a bit slimmer and dropping a few ports every revision. With the 2016+ you got the option of colors, and it continued on its trajectory of slimming and losing ports.
skywhopper 8y ago
"My next laptop will probably not be a mac." Yeah, you aren't the only one. They are seriously throwing away all the goodwill and reputation they'd built up over the past 20 years, over features no one is asking for like the touch bar and a ridiculously short key throw.
- beenBoutIT 8y ago
  Apple without Steve Jobs is your favorite restaurant with new management. You want it to be the same so you try not to notice that it's gone to shit, but eventually you realize that the guy running the place was what made it so good.
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    Remember this? https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/ https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/
    - ksec 8y ago
      Oh hell yes. They made a mistake, try to fix it, and the problem was gone in the next iteration. We have been suffering from the same MacBook Pro keyboard issues for 3 years, and the latest 2018 just released still has that keyboard problem. And to add insult to injury T2 now causes panic every now and then.
      - beenBoutIT 8y ago
        History will ultimately remember Apple as two distinct entities; Apple With Jobs and Apple After Jobs.
        radley 8y ago
        Four really: Apple with Jobs (76-85), Apple without (85-97), Apple with (97-11), and Apple after. Each period was very unique.
wild_preference 8y ago
I bought my 2017 MBP last November and accumulated a whopping 7 loose keycaps that would come off with my fingers as I typed. It was so unusable that I had to use my 2013 Air to get work done. I returned to the States 2 weeks ago and took my MBP into an Apple store. The one nice thing I can say was that I was able to book an appointment online, drop my MBP off at the store, and 2 days later my repaired laptop arrived at my front door. That experience was at least more pleasant than I expected. The high resale value of macbooks doesn’t do you any good when you realize you should keep your previous laptop around because your new one will likely break. I will definitely be using an external keyboard when possible from now on. Sheesh.
- foepys 8y ago
  I don't see how that is a pleasant experience. Other manufacturers of laptops in that price range will give you 3 years on-site support where they will send out a technician to replace as much as possible in front of you so you can keep working. Often they will even be able to replace the logic board within half an hour. Hell, my Thinkpad T420 had complete manufacturer created instructions on how to replace the display and keyboard so I could to it myself after the warranty runs out.
  - marricks 8y ago
    “Other manufacturers have onsite repair” who does that nowadays and how accessible are their stores? I’ve had friends with HP, Dell, etc, laptops ship them off and wait a week to hear what is wrong and give them an estimate. And they usually had to ship it themselves. I had an Apple repair and it took less than a week with virtual no wait right by my house. Say what you will about their keyboard problems but people were envious of my repair experience.
    - fipple 8y ago
      It depends on how much you pay for the laptop. If you get the overpriced “enterprise” machines you get the on site support. I found it cheaper to just have extra hardware on hand.
ClassyJacket 8y ago
Also the loss of the function keys (brightness, volume, etc.) makes the touchbar one slower and less pleasant to interact with. I don't want to have to press a button just to be able to SHOW the play\pause button, I want it to always be in the same place and just press it.
- Xcelerate 8y ago
  You can set it to work that way in the settings. But I agree; I miss the physical keys.
trumped 8y ago
> My next laptop will probably not be a mac. maybe it shouldn't even be a laptop
- binomialxenon 8y ago
  ? Laptops are portable. If you want something portable, it's gotta be a laptop.
  - trumped 8y ago
    sure, it depends on your use case, but a small bluetooth keyboard with a phone mount is probably more portable... something a bit like this: http://www.tuemarket.com/img/iphone-bluetooth-keyboard.jpg http://www.tuemarket.com/img/iphone-bluetooth-keyboard.jpg, or if you just need processing power, it could be a back pack server, etc...
- copperx 8y ago
  It is an impopular opinion, but switching to a desktop as a daily driver, if your work and lifestyle allows it, has many benefits such as greater power, upgradeability, compatibility (e.g. Linux, FreeBSD), repairability, and relative low cost.
Naomarik 8y ago
Completely agree. I have the 15inch 2015 MacBook Pro and a Surface Book 2. It took a bit trial but I now have a setup I like using WSL for development, and have brought all the MacOS keyboard shortcuts over with autohotkey. All Apple needed to do was have a single model without the touchbar and I would have purchased a newer model regardless of potential keyboard issues. Surface Book 2 is the most brilliant hardware I've ever used that actually makes my MacBook feel archaic in comparison. The keyboard in my opinion is the best I've ever used and being able to detatch the screen and write on screen and read books in portrait mode feels like some alien technology. Battery life is also a huge win. I was very skeptical of Windows as a development environment so bought the 8GB version as mainly a secondary computer/screen and notepad when doing work in cafes alongside my Macbook. I'll probably end up selling it and getting a the 15inch 16gb version. My Surface has only recently dethroned my MacBook as my daily driver after spending time to set it up properly. Also once you get used to a touchscreen it feels unnatural to not have one.
- jpangs88 8y ago
  Apple does have one model without a touchbar but it's thirteen inch and has lower specs. I am pretty sure it too has a T2 chip and the same keyboard flaws. It's what I'd buy if I bought a Mac but I don't think I will.
  - Naomarik 8y ago
    Unfortunately that one is dual core. They don't have a quad core laptop in their line up with a full keyboard.
  - lloeki 8y ago
    Since the T2 chip is mostly about the Touch Bar / Touch ID / secure enclave then no, the FN MBP doesn't have the T2 chip nor BridgeOS. Also, the FN MBP hardware hasn't been upgraded at all like the TB ones were, so the CPU is one gen earlier and thus dual core, while keyboard flaws remain since it's a non-fixed keyboard (the one without the rubber thingies)
    - 8y ago
rustcharm 8y ago
I took a Lenovo Yoga as a "burner" laptop to DEFCON. Got so many people asking about it, saying they liked the size, the pen and touch interface, and the look and feel. There are many good options today, and Windows 10 is just fine.
cordite 8y ago
The top comment in practically every macbook related HN post is about how top quality the 2015 Macbook pro was and how its successors failed. Although I'm actually typing this on that very model.
- llampx 8y ago
  I went from a MacBook Pro 2015 to a Thinkpad T470s because the MBP 2016+ were so unappealing and more expensive for (at the time) outdated processors. It took some getting used to because I hadn't used Windows in a while, but overall it is working quite well.
ashishb 8y ago
> My next laptop will probably not be a mac. What will it be? To be fair, I am not a fan of Macs but I haven't seen any good GNU/Linux laptops which have proper Wi-Fi, sleep, and battery usage out of the box. Do you have any recommendations?
- EdwardDiego 8y ago
  I'm quite enjoying my System 76 laptop, have you looked at their offerings? https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops
  - ashishb 8y ago
    I have purchased and returned one before. I admire them but when I tried a few years, the hardware quality as well as battery life was not up to the mark.
- some_account 8y ago
  Not sure what you mean here... You just install Linux on them and usually things work fine. Maybe your fingerprint scanner won't work, stuff like that, but otherwise it's rare to have issues.
  - ashishb 8y ago
    > Maybe your fingerprint scanner won't work, stuff like that, but otherwise it's rare to have issues. reply Exactly. These things add up. Fingerprint scanner won't work, battery life goes down. Occasionally, the device won't come out of sleep. I have used self-managed GNU/Linux on my laptop before and these issues bother you unless GNU/Linux development is your main job.
    - willtim 8y ago
      Pick your distribution wisely. I have no issues with Linux wake-from-sleep or battery life on a ThinkPad, in fact my wife has more issues with her MacBookPro!
- 8y ago
SyneRyder 8y ago
> IMO the 2015 Macbook Pro is one of the best laptops... I guess it's just me, but one thing I don't like about the 2015 is the Force Touch haptic trackpad. I think the 2014 might have actually been better because it had a real clickable trackpad (like the MacBook Air still has) with a really satisfying, snappy click. The Force Touch has such a weak click response that I find it hard to use accurately, even when you dial the click intensity to maximum. The Surface Book 2 and Surface Laptop seem to get that right, they've still got snappy clickable trackpads & the key travel is like the old MacBook Pros before the new keyboards.
sqldba 8y ago
I had MBP's from 2010 onwards and re-sold/upgraded every year or so. Last year the touch bar debacle started and I also wasn't happy with the 16GB memory limitation when others were offering 32GB. Also I need to do a lot of Windows and boot camp isn't very good on MBPs; the trackpad doesn't work much better than a normal trackpad and the fans go wild. So I made a deal with the devil and switched to a 1080p 32GB Xeon ThinkPad and it's about twice as thick but works fine and has a really decent keyboard. I also read a book by the ThinkPad design team and I feel that they really care about doing the right thing. So that's who I identify with now more than Apple. I'm watching Apple slowly (and presumably deliberately) further alienate their user base year over year with the touch bar, worse keys, refusal to implement touch, and awful Windows drivers, so that one day they can say, "Well it's not worth it anymore" and stop producing it and focus in iPad/iPhone where all the money is. It's pretty sad stuff.
philliphaydon 8y ago
> My next laptop will probably not be a mac. The Lenovo P1 looks good. 6 core, 64gb ram, 13 hours battery.
znpy 8y ago
> My 2015 Macbook is being used daily by a friend and is still in perfect shape. This is the issue that Apple is solving: if your laptop still works, Apple can't milk you for more money.
- h1d 8y ago
  Short sight solution at best. People will leave on the next purchase.
jamra 8y ago
My mid 2015 MBP needed its motherboard replaced and Apple was awful about it. One of the OS upgrades revealed a kernel panic related to communicating with the GPU. I remember trying to explain to the Apple Genius about how driver issues can be hardware issues.
coldtea 8y ago
I had the 2013 version, and then got the 2017 one. I don't have a use for the touch strip (in fact it gets in the way, as it can get accidentally touched), hate how easily the keyboard can gather detritus and get stuck, and dislike the bigger trackpad. On the other hand, I dig the enhanced display (brightness, color), better speakers, and am excited about the powerful i9/32GB/2TB options in this years model. Not sure what they'll do with the strip, but the keyboard has to be fixed. If it was up to me, I'd replace the touch strip with actual buttons that have tiny OLED screens and can show pictures on them, and try to come up with a 100% water/dust proof keyboard system that still has proper travel. >My next laptop will probably not be a mac. That's not an option for me. Linux of all varieties still sucks on laptops (and for creative use, e.g. video and music), and Windows doesn't have the Unix underpinnings that I rely on, plus the OS and ecosystem is even worse (I've used Windows for 20+ years, and use Linux for work every day since 1998).
- willtim 8y ago
  > Linux of all varieties still sucks on laptops Sweeping statements like that are not helpful. The argument is far more nuanced. My wife's MacBookPro sometimes fails to wake from sleep, gets incredibly hot under load and doesn't support my displayport MST monitors, but I wouldn't claim that Mac laptops universally "sucked".
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >My wife's MacBookPro sometimes fails to wake from sleep, gets incredibly hot under load and doesn't support my displayport MST monitors, but I wouldn't claim that Mac laptops universally "sucked". That's because some Mac laptops do those things and others don't (it's a combo of OS version, graphics card, chipset, model, and so on). Whereas the problems I'm talking about regarding Linux are integral to the OS and ecosystem (and occur for everybody, regardless of setup). Now, some of those problems might be non-issues for others since they never do X or Y things with their Linux laptops. But for me, that need to do X and Y those are problems. X and Y being for example heavy professional video and music editing. But there are also lotsa things that are genuine problems in desktop Linux use, regardless of use cases. Having problem with a laptop sleep or getting the 3D acceleration / compositor to play properly etc, for example is not just some rare case on the wrong production run / OS combo, but a constant across distros and laptop brands, and usually the solution is to just carefully research and get a support combo (or just be lucky).
iliaznk 8y ago
I'd be one of minority, I guess, but I don't mind the new macbook at all. It's a bit lighter and thinner, which is already a nice improvement for those who have to carry it around every day. While using the 2015 model, I couldn't even imagine a laptop that would make it look and feel old-fashioned, but the 2017 one did it. After using it for a couple of weeks the 2015 mac feels bulky and its keyboard – kind of tight. The 2017 keyboard is so light that it takes just a little push by a finger to press, and I really feel that it allows me typing even faster. I do agree that the keyboard is very easy to contaminate and a little crumb can make a key hardly usable, but it's easily fixed with a bottle of compressed air. Hopefully the measures Apple took in the latest revisions, utilising a kind of a rubber cushion for the keys, will improve the situation.
- koffiezet 8y ago
  I just got myself the 2018 13" model after it became clear they addressed the keyboard/dust issue, and I'm pleasantly surprised by the keyboard feel. Initial impressions in the shop are never accurate, but after working on it for a few days, I prefer it over the keyboard of my aging MBA. Now that said - I haven't experienced any kernel crashes yet, and I expect Apple to fix this in software, so I don't worry too much about it.
  - iliaznk 8y ago
    I'd agree that as you get used to it, it does definitely feel as a step forward.

radley 8y ago

I'm running a mid 2012 i7 MBP (bought at release) w/ 16GB & a 2TB SSD (recently upgraded from a 1TB SSD). I also have a keyboard overlay as a precaution, since I've had to replace keyboards on previous Macs due to spills or sloppy cleaning. My 2012 is decent, but 2013 - 1015 MBPs are the best.

SalimoS 8y ago
Me too have to 2012 no retina MBP, I upgraded the HDD to an SSD 500Gb and the RAM from 4GB to 10BG Im more than satisfied but still stressed when I think about the upgrade
bluecat22 8y ago
I think the issue will be that either your Mac will be unsupported for OSX Mojave or at most in an year or so while your machine physically will still be in good working condition.
- jsjohnst 8y ago
  > I think the issue will be that either your Mac will be unsupported What precedent do you have for believing that to be true? The only time Apple has done that in the past is major platform changes (aka PowerPC and later 32bit CoreDuos). Unless Apple shifts to ARM (which is easily a couple years out at best) or Intel comes out with a 128bit processor (which isn’t even remotely on the roadmap), I’d say you are safe for at least another five years, even if those shifts do happen.
  - shimms 8y ago
    My 2012 Mac Pro (cheese grater) can’t run Mojave since the GPU doesn’t support Metal. There are aftermarket GPUs available, but it’s becoming an ongoing chore to keep the machine running the latest macOS features (needed new wifi card to support handoff and watch unlock etc). New wifi, SSD, usb3 etc are relatively cheap. The new GPU is getting more expensive and is now actually blocking keeping up to date with major OS releases. There is no other Mac I currently want to buy (desktop, my own display). MacMini is too underspecced, MacProvis about to be updated and aside from GPU isn’t really any better than my current MacPro - feels end of life and outdated from day 1, a non-starter for me. So I’ll probably get a new GPU and hope that buys me another couple of years.
    - Aloha 8y ago
      What wifi card is needed?
      - shimms 8y ago
        For unlock with watch an AC card with beam forming (factory was N), for handoff/continuity Bluetooth 4 (from memory, may be wrong).
        Aloha 8y ago
        I was looking for a particular model :-P
        shimms 8y ago
        Oh sorry, I totally misread you question and thought you asked what it is needed for. I got the kit from OSX wifi: http://osxwifi.com/apple-broadcom-bcm94360cd-802-11-a-b-g-n-ac-bluetooth-4-0-with-adapter-for-macpro-2009-and-macpro-2010 http://osxwifi.com/apple-broadcom-bcm94360cd-802-11-a-b-g-n-... Works well, had a bit of trouble getting unlock with watch working, but then all of a sudden started, so not sure what that was about, but been good since then.
    - 8y ago
- radley 8y ago
  Considering the lackluster updates of OSX / MacOS, and the fact that the platform matured years ago, I'm not really concerned that I won't be able to use Mojave. I think the only issue will be if I need to use XCode, which tends to be bound to the latest OS.
dfee 8y ago
I hate the idea of using a cover, but I probably should. Do you have a recommendation?
volkl48 8y ago
The main issue with a 2012 is that the hard drive cables fail constantly. But the part is cheap and even the technically clueless could replace it themselves with YouTube or ifixit.
- SyneRyder 8y ago
  Tell me about it! I'm using a 2012 MBP right now, and I love it, except that every 2 - 3 months the hard drive flex cable fails (except for one period where it happened to last 2 years). I'm on my 4th cable, and Apple isn't offering any remedy except "when it breaks again, bring it in again and we'll replace it for free again". At least the last time I took it in, the guy replaced it on the spot in 15 minutes while I waited. Every other time they've needed to keep the device for a week to replace the cable... I've had a lot of downtime with this machine.
  - miles 8y ago
    Electrical tape works wonders, especially as a preventative: MacBook Pro Hard Drive Cable Failure - Free fix and preventative maintenance - Question mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amg5w0rlwDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amg5w0rlwDo
    - SyneRyder 8y ago
      Oh wow, that's the first time I've seen the actual damage. It's so small that no wonder I couldn't see it. I've still got a month left on my AppleCare, but once that expires I'll give it a try. Thank you!
  - robdachshund 8y ago
    Lol the hdd is connected with a flex cable? Why isn't the SATA port soldered to the board? Good god

DenisM 8y ago

No one ever gets a promotion by leaving a 3-year old design intact.

x0x0 8y ago
Or to courage your customers into wasting $70-$400 more per laptop in dongles to retain basic functionality. Like USB-A or HDMI.
llampx 8y ago
Macbooks have basically looked the same since the TiBook days, getting just a bit slimmer and dropping a few ports every revision. With the 2016+ you got the option of colors, and it continued on its trajectory of slimming and losing ports.

skywhopper 8y ago

"My next laptop will probably not be a mac." Yeah, you aren't the only one. They are seriously throwing away all the goodwill and reputation they'd built up over the past 20 years, over features no one is asking for like the touch bar and a ridiculously short key throw.

beenBoutIT 8y ago
Apple without Steve Jobs is your favorite restaurant with new management. You want it to be the same so you try not to notice that it's gone to shit, but eventually you realize that the guy running the place was what made it so good.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  Remember this? https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/ https://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/
  - ksec 8y ago
    Oh hell yes. They made a mistake, try to fix it, and the problem was gone in the next iteration. We have been suffering from the same MacBook Pro keyboard issues for 3 years, and the latest 2018 just released still has that keyboard problem. And to add insult to injury T2 now causes panic every now and then.
    - beenBoutIT 8y ago
      History will ultimately remember Apple as two distinct entities; Apple With Jobs and Apple After Jobs.
      - radley 8y ago
        Four really: Apple with Jobs (76-85), Apple without (85-97), Apple with (97-11), and Apple after. Each period was very unique.

wild_preference 8y ago

I bought my 2017 MBP last November and accumulated a whopping 7 loose keycaps that would come off with my fingers as I typed. It was so unusable that I had to use my 2013 Air to get work done. I returned to the States 2 weeks ago and took my MBP into an Apple store. The one nice thing I can say was that I was able to book an appointment online, drop my MBP off at the store, and 2 days later my repaired laptop arrived at my front door. That experience was at least more pleasant than I expected. The high resale value of macbooks doesn’t do you any good when you realize you should keep your previous laptop around because your new one will likely break. I will definitely be using an external keyboard when possible from now on. Sheesh.

foepys 8y ago
I don't see how that is a pleasant experience. Other manufacturers of laptops in that price range will give you 3 years on-site support where they will send out a technician to replace as much as possible in front of you so you can keep working. Often they will even be able to replace the logic board within half an hour. Hell, my Thinkpad T420 had complete manufacturer created instructions on how to replace the display and keyboard so I could to it myself after the warranty runs out.
- marricks 8y ago
  “Other manufacturers have onsite repair” who does that nowadays and how accessible are their stores? I’ve had friends with HP, Dell, etc, laptops ship them off and wait a week to hear what is wrong and give them an estimate. And they usually had to ship it themselves. I had an Apple repair and it took less than a week with virtual no wait right by my house. Say what you will about their keyboard problems but people were envious of my repair experience.
  - fipple 8y ago
    It depends on how much you pay for the laptop. If you get the overpriced “enterprise” machines you get the on site support. I found it cheaper to just have extra hardware on hand.

ClassyJacket 8y ago

Also the loss of the function keys (brightness, volume, etc.) makes the touchbar one slower and less pleasant to interact with. I don't want to have to press a button just to be able to SHOW the play\pause button, I want it to always be in the same place and just press it.

Xcelerate 8y ago
You can set it to work that way in the settings. But I agree; I miss the physical keys.

trumped 8y ago

> My next laptop will probably not be a mac. maybe it shouldn't even be a laptop

binomialxenon 8y ago
? Laptops are portable. If you want something portable, it's gotta be a laptop.
- trumped 8y ago
  sure, it depends on your use case, but a small bluetooth keyboard with a phone mount is probably more portable... something a bit like this: http://www.tuemarket.com/img/iphone-bluetooth-keyboard.jpg http://www.tuemarket.com/img/iphone-bluetooth-keyboard.jpg, or if you just need processing power, it could be a back pack server, etc...
copperx 8y ago
It is an impopular opinion, but switching to a desktop as a daily driver, if your work and lifestyle allows it, has many benefits such as greater power, upgradeability, compatibility (e.g. Linux, FreeBSD), repairability, and relative low cost.

Naomarik 8y ago

Completely agree. I have the 15inch 2015 MacBook Pro and a Surface Book 2. It took a bit trial but I now have a setup I like using WSL for development, and have brought all the MacOS keyboard shortcuts over with autohotkey. All Apple needed to do was have a single model without the touchbar and I would have purchased a newer model regardless of potential keyboard issues. Surface Book 2 is the most brilliant hardware I've ever used that actually makes my MacBook feel archaic in comparison. The keyboard in my opinion is the best I've ever used and being able to detatch the screen and write on screen and read books in portrait mode feels like some alien technology. Battery life is also a huge win. I was very skeptical of Windows as a development environment so bought the 8GB version as mainly a secondary computer/screen and notepad when doing work in cafes alongside my Macbook. I'll probably end up selling it and getting a the 15inch 16gb version. My Surface has only recently dethroned my MacBook as my daily driver after spending time to set it up properly. Also once you get used to a touchscreen it feels unnatural to not have one.

jpangs88 8y ago
Apple does have one model without a touchbar but it's thirteen inch and has lower specs. I am pretty sure it too has a T2 chip and the same keyboard flaws. It's what I'd buy if I bought a Mac but I don't think I will.
- Naomarik 8y ago
  Unfortunately that one is dual core. They don't have a quad core laptop in their line up with a full keyboard.
- lloeki 8y ago
  Since the T2 chip is mostly about the Touch Bar / Touch ID / secure enclave then no, the FN MBP doesn't have the T2 chip nor BridgeOS. Also, the FN MBP hardware hasn't been upgraded at all like the TB ones were, so the CPU is one gen earlier and thus dual core, while keyboard flaws remain since it's a non-fixed keyboard (the one without the rubber thingies)
  - 8y ago

rustcharm 8y ago

I took a Lenovo Yoga as a "burner" laptop to DEFCON. Got so many people asking about it, saying they liked the size, the pen and touch interface, and the look and feel. There are many good options today, and Windows 10 is just fine.

cordite 8y ago

The top comment in practically every macbook related HN post is about how top quality the 2015 Macbook pro was and how its successors failed. Although I'm actually typing this on that very model.

llampx 8y ago
I went from a MacBook Pro 2015 to a Thinkpad T470s because the MBP 2016+ were so unappealing and more expensive for (at the time) outdated processors. It took some getting used to because I hadn't used Windows in a while, but overall it is working quite well.

ashishb 8y ago

> My next laptop will probably not be a mac. What will it be? To be fair, I am not a fan of Macs but I haven't seen any good GNU/Linux laptops which have proper Wi-Fi, sleep, and battery usage out of the box. Do you have any recommendations?

EdwardDiego 8y ago
I'm quite enjoying my System 76 laptop, have you looked at their offerings? https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops
- ashishb 8y ago
  I have purchased and returned one before. I admire them but when I tried a few years, the hardware quality as well as battery life was not up to the mark.
some_account 8y ago
Not sure what you mean here... You just install Linux on them and usually things work fine. Maybe your fingerprint scanner won't work, stuff like that, but otherwise it's rare to have issues.
- ashishb 8y ago
  > Maybe your fingerprint scanner won't work, stuff like that, but otherwise it's rare to have issues. reply Exactly. These things add up. Fingerprint scanner won't work, battery life goes down. Occasionally, the device won't come out of sleep. I have used self-managed GNU/Linux on my laptop before and these issues bother you unless GNU/Linux development is your main job.
  - willtim 8y ago
    Pick your distribution wisely. I have no issues with Linux wake-from-sleep or battery life on a ThinkPad, in fact my wife has more issues with her MacBookPro!
8y ago

SyneRyder 8y ago

> IMO the 2015 Macbook Pro is one of the best laptops... I guess it's just me, but one thing I don't like about the 2015 is the Force Touch haptic trackpad. I think the 2014 might have actually been better because it had a real clickable trackpad (like the MacBook Air still has) with a really satisfying, snappy click. The Force Touch has such a weak click response that I find it hard to use accurately, even when you dial the click intensity to maximum. The Surface Book 2 and Surface Laptop seem to get that right, they've still got snappy clickable trackpads & the key travel is like the old MacBook Pros before the new keyboards.

sqldba 8y ago

I had MBP's from 2010 onwards and re-sold/upgraded every year or so. Last year the touch bar debacle started and I also wasn't happy with the 16GB memory limitation when others were offering 32GB. Also I need to do a lot of Windows and boot camp isn't very good on MBPs; the trackpad doesn't work much better than a normal trackpad and the fans go wild. So I made a deal with the devil and switched to a 1080p 32GB Xeon ThinkPad and it's about twice as thick but works fine and has a really decent keyboard. I also read a book by the ThinkPad design team and I feel that they really care about doing the right thing. So that's who I identify with now more than Apple. I'm watching Apple slowly (and presumably deliberately) further alienate their user base year over year with the touch bar, worse keys, refusal to implement touch, and awful Windows drivers, so that one day they can say, "Well it's not worth it anymore" and stop producing it and focus in iPad/iPhone where all the money is. It's pretty sad stuff.

philliphaydon 8y ago

> My next laptop will probably not be a mac. The Lenovo P1 looks good. 6 core, 64gb ram, 13 hours battery.

znpy 8y ago

> My 2015 Macbook is being used daily by a friend and is still in perfect shape. This is the issue that Apple is solving: if your laptop still works, Apple can't milk you for more money.

h1d 8y ago
Short sight solution at best. People will leave on the next purchase.

jamra 8y ago

My mid 2015 MBP needed its motherboard replaced and Apple was awful about it. One of the OS upgrades revealed a kernel panic related to communicating with the GPU. I remember trying to explain to the Apple Genius about how driver issues can be hardware issues.

coldtea 8y ago

I had the 2013 version, and then got the 2017 one. I don't have a use for the touch strip (in fact it gets in the way, as it can get accidentally touched), hate how easily the keyboard can gather detritus and get stuck, and dislike the bigger trackpad. On the other hand, I dig the enhanced display (brightness, color), better speakers, and am excited about the powerful i9/32GB/2TB options in this years model. Not sure what they'll do with the strip, but the keyboard has to be fixed. If it was up to me, I'd replace the touch strip with actual buttons that have tiny OLED screens and can show pictures on them, and try to come up with a 100% water/dust proof keyboard system that still has proper travel. >My next laptop will probably not be a mac. That's not an option for me. Linux of all varieties still sucks on laptops (and for creative use, e.g. video and music), and Windows doesn't have the Unix underpinnings that I rely on, plus the OS and ecosystem is even worse (I've used Windows for 20+ years, and use Linux for work every day since 1998).

willtim 8y ago
> Linux of all varieties still sucks on laptops Sweeping statements like that are not helpful. The argument is far more nuanced. My wife's MacBookPro sometimes fails to wake from sleep, gets incredibly hot under load and doesn't support my displayport MST monitors, but I wouldn't claim that Mac laptops universally "sucked".
- coldtea 8y ago
  >My wife's MacBookPro sometimes fails to wake from sleep, gets incredibly hot under load and doesn't support my displayport MST monitors, but I wouldn't claim that Mac laptops universally "sucked". That's because some Mac laptops do those things and others don't (it's a combo of OS version, graphics card, chipset, model, and so on). Whereas the problems I'm talking about regarding Linux are integral to the OS and ecosystem (and occur for everybody, regardless of setup). Now, some of those problems might be non-issues for others since they never do X or Y things with their Linux laptops. But for me, that need to do X and Y those are problems. X and Y being for example heavy professional video and music editing. But there are also lotsa things that are genuine problems in desktop Linux use, regardless of use cases. Having problem with a laptop sleep or getting the 3D acceleration / compositor to play properly etc, for example is not just some rare case on the wrong production run / OS combo, but a constant across distros and laptop brands, and usually the solution is to just carefully research and get a support combo (or just be lucky).

iliaznk 8y ago

I'd be one of minority, I guess, but I don't mind the new macbook at all. It's a bit lighter and thinner, which is already a nice improvement for those who have to carry it around every day. While using the 2015 model, I couldn't even imagine a laptop that would make it look and feel old-fashioned, but the 2017 one did it. After using it for a couple of weeks the 2015 mac feels bulky and its keyboard – kind of tight. The 2017 keyboard is so light that it takes just a little push by a finger to press, and I really feel that it allows me typing even faster. I do agree that the keyboard is very easy to contaminate and a little crumb can make a key hardly usable, but it's easily fixed with a bottle of compressed air. Hopefully the measures Apple took in the latest revisions, utilising a kind of a rubber cushion for the keys, will improve the situation.

koffiezet 8y ago
I just got myself the 2018 13" model after it became clear they addressed the keyboard/dust issue, and I'm pleasantly surprised by the keyboard feel. Initial impressions in the shop are never accurate, but after working on it for a few days, I prefer it over the keyboard of my aging MBA. Now that said - I haven't experienced any kernel crashes yet, and I expect Apple to fix this in software, so I don't worry too much about it.
- iliaznk 8y ago
  I'd agree that as you get used to it, it does definitely feel as a step forward.