5 ms·

Why is the T2 panic any worse than a normal panic? It's a bug, they happen. And before someone says that they're only needed for the Touch Bar, a) they chose t

Why is the T2 panic any worse than a normal panic? It's a bug, they happen. And before someone says that they're only needed for the Touch Bar, a) they chose to buy the Touch Bar version, and b) T2 and future chips will handle much more.

MBCook 8y ago
The T2 DOES handle much more. Last year’s T1 only handled the touchbar and fingerprint sensor. The T2 is also the storage controller, disk encryption, and I think runs all the system management/thermal stuff. Why is this any different from any other kernel panic? It probably isn’t. But the design is more complicated than it was last year and lots of people already dislike the existence of the Touch Bar and everything connected to it, so I can see them latching onto this is proof that that was a mistake.
- pertymcpert 8y ago
  Yes you're right.
jhdsrt 8y ago
> Why is the T2 panic any worse than a normal panic? It's a bug, they happen. They do happen. They shouldn't. No matter what subsystem causes the kernel panic I don't see why you would think they are acceptable. However, a problem with T2 is worse than other subsystems because... > And before someone says that they're only needed for the Touch Bar, a) they chose to buy the Touch Bar version, and b) T2 and future chips will handle much more. Exactly. T2 is supposed to work as a secure enclave, for instance (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862). Any bug (especially one causing a kernel crash) related to the T2 chip is potentially a privilege escalation bug, with the potential to enable direct (after decryption) disk access outside of os access control, or the possibility to work around secure boot and boot non-signed kernels, or other problems. The T2 chip is becoming a critical part of the security infrastructure for macs/mac os and any bug related to it should be taken very seriously.
- tedunangst 8y ago
  How does one conclude that a kernel panic means the T2 is insecure? The kernel trusts the T2, not the other way around.
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    And you know that how?
    - pertymcpert 8y ago
      Because that's the architecture?
- pertymcpert 8y ago
  Do Linux kernel panics get a HN front page complaint? It's software. > Exactly. T2 is supposed to work as a secure enclave, for instance (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862). Any bug (especially one causing a kernel crash) related to the T2 chip is potentially a privilege escalation bug, with the potential to enable direct (after decryption) disk access outside of os access control, or the possibility to work around secure boot and boot non-signed kernels, or other problems. Uh, no it's not that simplistic. I think you have a serious misunderstanding of what T2 and bridgeos actually do. It doesn't affect the security.
kbd 8y ago
> a) they chose to buy the Touch Bar version Only problem with this is that if you want the most powerful Mac laptop, the touchbar version is your only choice!
- lowercased 8y ago
  Exactly. Perhaps they really only 'chose' a 2.9ghz 6-core macbook - it just happens to come with a touchbar.

MBCook 8y ago

The T2 DOES handle much more. Last year’s T1 only handled the touchbar and fingerprint sensor. The T2 is also the storage controller, disk encryption, and I think runs all the system management/thermal stuff. Why is this any different from any other kernel panic? It probably isn’t. But the design is more complicated than it was last year and lots of people already dislike the existence of the Touch Bar and everything connected to it, so I can see them latching onto this is proof that that was a mistake.

pertymcpert 8y ago
Yes you're right.

jhdsrt 8y ago

> Why is the T2 panic any worse than a normal panic? It's a bug, they happen. They do happen. They shouldn't. No matter what subsystem causes the kernel panic I don't see why you would think they are acceptable. However, a problem with T2 is worse than other subsystems because... > And before someone says that they're only needed for the Touch Bar, a) they chose to buy the Touch Bar version, and b) T2 and future chips will handle much more. Exactly. T2 is supposed to work as a secure enclave, for instance (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862). Any bug (especially one causing a kernel crash) related to the T2 chip is potentially a privilege escalation bug, with the potential to enable direct (after decryption) disk access outside of os access control, or the possibility to work around secure boot and boot non-signed kernels, or other problems. The T2 chip is becoming a critical part of the security infrastructure for macs/mac os and any bug related to it should be taken very seriously.

tedunangst 8y ago
How does one conclude that a kernel panic means the T2 is insecure? The kernel trusts the T2, not the other way around.
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  And you know that how?
  - pertymcpert 8y ago
    Because that's the architecture?
pertymcpert 8y ago
Do Linux kernel panics get a HN front page complaint? It's software. > Exactly. T2 is supposed to work as a secure enclave, for instance (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862). Any bug (especially one causing a kernel crash) related to the T2 chip is potentially a privilege escalation bug, with the potential to enable direct (after decryption) disk access outside of os access control, or the possibility to work around secure boot and boot non-signed kernels, or other problems. Uh, no it's not that simplistic. I think you have a serious misunderstanding of what T2 and bridgeos actually do. It doesn't affect the security.

kbd 8y ago

> a) they chose to buy the Touch Bar version Only problem with this is that if you want the most powerful Mac laptop, the touchbar version is your only choice!

lowercased 8y ago
Exactly. Perhaps they really only 'chose' a 2.9ghz 6-core macbook - it just happens to come with a touchbar.