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When someone mentions Mediterranean diet the first association I have is fish, white cheese, olive oil, fresh fruit and veggies, and whole grain bread. Correct

When someone mentions Mediterranean diet the first association I have is fish, white cheese, olive oil, fresh fruit and veggies, and whole grain bread. Correct me if I'm wrong - but I wouldn't classify that as a plant based diet.

GW150914 8y ago
Cheese like haloumi and feta are very low in fat, and not necessarily more than a garnish in most cases. For another animal product I’d add yogurt, but you also missed the big plant staples. Lots of pulses like beans and lentils, lots of nuts and seeds, hummus, lots and lots of rice, barley, and wheat products, whole olives in addition to the oil, that kind of thing. Of course lamb and mutton are also a source of protein and fat along with fish, but traditionally greens and beans took up the majority of calories with dairy in second, meat and fish in third. So you’re not wrong, but cheese, fish, meat are all the tip of the pyramid, not the base. Of course as wealth has spreas people eat more fish and meat and cheese than they used to, and they suffer for it.
mrnobody_67 8y ago
The mediterranean diet study that was made the diet famous is fundamentally flawed as described in The Big Fat Surprise. It was done on a small population, self-reported, and during a time of war when supplies were short and people were eating atypical altered diet based on available food stuffs.
- YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
  I hadn't heard of The Big Fat Surprise, so I had a look around and found its author's Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Teicholz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Teicholz I quote from it: >>"Nina Teicholz is a journalist who became an advocate opposed to the idea that saturated fat is unhealthy and should be minimized in the American diet." So, to begin with, she's a journalist who wrote a book about fat. In fact, she advocated that people should load up their diets on fat, particularly saturated fat: >>Teicholz advised readers to "eat butter; drink milk whole, and feed it to the whole family. Stock up on creamy cheeses, offal, and sausage, and yes, bacon" This advice runs counter to the advice of public health organisations and the opinionts of scientists: >> Teicholz' claims were harshly criticized by the DGAC, the US Department of Health and Human Services, the Center for Science in the Public Interest, and others, including a petition signed by 180 scientists, and they called for BMJ to retract the article or issue corrections My underlining. I wouldn't trust that lady to tell me what to eat, or to criticise a scientific study's methodology. A journalist with a book has very clear incentives to "shake things up" by going against the scientific consensus. But, it's the opinion of experts that have studied the matter at length, who know the relevant bibliography well and understand its subtleties that one should trust more than outsiders who "rock the boat" for their own reasons. Finally- it's really dangerous to listen to someone who tells you that, that thing you love to eat (or smoke, or drink, etc) that you always knew was not very good for you is actually very healthy. You have a big, fat incentive to blieve them unconditionally.
  - ENTP 8y ago
    I'm just an internet random, but whenever i load up my diet with such foods, i never fail to lose fat, and a lot of it at that. The problem is sticking to it
  - crphilipp 8y ago
    I have read her book, and it is fascinating. Go ahead and make your assumptions about her motives, but I believe you are doing yourself a disservice. Before the 20th century, we ate a lot of saturated fats, and it wasn't until the creation of vegetable oils (which are made through extensive industrial processes), was there a move to start restricting saturated fat. The current low-fat diet is an experiment that has America has been on for forty some years. Please take a look at this. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/low-fat-diets-failed-experiment/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/low-fat-d... And in general, the American population has been following this diet, and we are fatter than ever before, suffering from Type 2 Diabetes. And the "science" behind our current health policy is driven by organizations like the American Soybean Asociation who are more concerned with making money and less on science. And when you start talking about money, the science research will follow the money, because the scientists need to eat. Please take a look at this videos, https://youtu.be/Q2UnOryQiIY https://youtu.be/Q2UnOryQiIY https://youtu.be/7Lww5WH7INI https://youtu.be/7Lww5WH7INI I would read her book before you pass judgment.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
      >> Before the 20th century, we ate a lot of saturated fats, and it wasn't until the creation of vegetable oils (which are made through extensive industrial processes), This can't be right. Olive oil is a vegetable oil and it's been known since antiquity. Its preparation requires an olive mill and a donkey to turn the millstone. Not "extensive industrial processes!
      - crphilipp 8y ago
        Certainly, Olive Oil has been around for a very long time, it wasn't until the 20th century that it became a major food product. Olive Oil was more valued for cosmetics, medicine, and in lamps. Actually, the original Olympic torch burned olive oil. Also, note that Olives are actually a fruit, but I understand why you bring it up as an example. I am talking about those other vegetable oils, like grapeseed oil, canola oil, sunflower oil, cottonseed oil. Do you remember Crisco short, this was a new product produced from cottonseed oil which had been hydrogenated though intensive industrial processes and sold as a cheaper alternative to the normal saturated fats used as the time. I hope you actually look at the links and videos I put up in my previous comment. Your ad hominem attacks against Nina Teicholz, like "I wouldn't trust that lady to tell me what to eat" and "she's a journalist" don't go unnoticed. I also want to point out her BMJ article was not retracted. The petition signed by 180 scientists was found to be without merit. I do find it telling you bring up the petition, yet you fail to say that article was not retracted.
JamesBarney 8y ago
Everything besides fish and white cheese is plant based.

GW150914 8y ago

Cheese like haloumi and feta are very low in fat, and not necessarily more than a garnish in most cases. For another animal product I’d add yogurt, but you also missed the big plant staples. Lots of pulses like beans and lentils, lots of nuts and seeds, hummus, lots and lots of rice, barley, and wheat products, whole olives in addition to the oil, that kind of thing. Of course lamb and mutton are also a source of protein and fat along with fish, but traditionally greens and beans took up the majority of calories with dairy in second, meat and fish in third. So you’re not wrong, but cheese, fish, meat are all the tip of the pyramid, not the base. Of course as wealth has spreas people eat more fish and meat and cheese than they used to, and they suffer for it.

mrnobody_67 8y ago

The mediterranean diet study that was made the diet famous is fundamentally flawed as described in The Big Fat Surprise. It was done on a small population, self-reported, and during a time of war when supplies were short and people were eating atypical altered diet based on available food stuffs.

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
I hadn't heard of The Big Fat Surprise, so I had a look around and found its author's Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Teicholz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Teicholz I quote from it: >>"Nina Teicholz is a journalist who became an advocate opposed to the idea that saturated fat is unhealthy and should be minimized in the American diet." So, to begin with, she's a journalist who wrote a book about fat. In fact, she advocated that people should load up their diets on fat, particularly saturated fat: >>Teicholz advised readers to "eat butter; drink milk whole, and feed it to the whole family. Stock up on creamy cheeses, offal, and sausage, and yes, bacon" This advice runs counter to the advice of public health organisations and the opinionts of scientists: >> Teicholz' claims were harshly criticized by the DGAC, the US Department of Health and Human Services, the Center for Science in the Public Interest, and others, including a petition signed by 180 scientists, and they called for BMJ to retract the article or issue corrections My underlining. I wouldn't trust that lady to tell me what to eat, or to criticise a scientific study's methodology. A journalist with a book has very clear incentives to "shake things up" by going against the scientific consensus. But, it's the opinion of experts that have studied the matter at length, who know the relevant bibliography well and understand its subtleties that one should trust more than outsiders who "rock the boat" for their own reasons. Finally- it's really dangerous to listen to someone who tells you that, that thing you love to eat (or smoke, or drink, etc) that you always knew was not very good for you is actually very healthy. You have a big, fat incentive to blieve them unconditionally.
- ENTP 8y ago
  I'm just an internet random, but whenever i load up my diet with such foods, i never fail to lose fat, and a lot of it at that. The problem is sticking to it
- crphilipp 8y ago
  I have read her book, and it is fascinating. Go ahead and make your assumptions about her motives, but I believe you are doing yourself a disservice. Before the 20th century, we ate a lot of saturated fats, and it wasn't until the creation of vegetable oils (which are made through extensive industrial processes), was there a move to start restricting saturated fat. The current low-fat diet is an experiment that has America has been on for forty some years. Please take a look at this. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/low-fat-diets-failed-experiment/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/low-fat-d... And in general, the American population has been following this diet, and we are fatter than ever before, suffering from Type 2 Diabetes. And the "science" behind our current health policy is driven by organizations like the American Soybean Asociation who are more concerned with making money and less on science. And when you start talking about money, the science research will follow the money, because the scientists need to eat. Please take a look at this videos, https://youtu.be/Q2UnOryQiIY https://youtu.be/Q2UnOryQiIY https://youtu.be/7Lww5WH7INI https://youtu.be/7Lww5WH7INI I would read her book before you pass judgment.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
    >> Before the 20th century, we ate a lot of saturated fats, and it wasn't until the creation of vegetable oils (which are made through extensive industrial processes), This can't be right. Olive oil is a vegetable oil and it's been known since antiquity. Its preparation requires an olive mill and a donkey to turn the millstone. Not "extensive industrial processes!
    - crphilipp 8y ago
      Certainly, Olive Oil has been around for a very long time, it wasn't until the 20th century that it became a major food product. Olive Oil was more valued for cosmetics, medicine, and in lamps. Actually, the original Olympic torch burned olive oil. Also, note that Olives are actually a fruit, but I understand why you bring it up as an example. I am talking about those other vegetable oils, like grapeseed oil, canola oil, sunflower oil, cottonseed oil. Do you remember Crisco short, this was a new product produced from cottonseed oil which had been hydrogenated though intensive industrial processes and sold as a cheaper alternative to the normal saturated fats used as the time. I hope you actually look at the links and videos I put up in my previous comment. Your ad hominem attacks against Nina Teicholz, like "I wouldn't trust that lady to tell me what to eat" and "she's a journalist" don't go unnoticed. I also want to point out her BMJ article was not retracted. The petition signed by 180 scientists was found to be without merit. I do find it telling you bring up the petition, yet you fail to say that article was not retracted.

JamesBarney 8y ago

Everything besides fish and white cheese is plant based.