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This is par for the course in the UK right now. The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now an their "hostile environment" fo

This is par for the course in the UK right now. The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now an their "hostile environment" for immigrants isn't restricted to ones who are doing something illegal, instead it seems to be targeted toward making life miserable, if not impossible for any immigrants wether they're doing the right thing or not. They have no problems breaking their own rules and aggressively using the courts (appealing cases and then withdrawing their claims the day before the hearing, for instance). In the case of the Windrush Generation, who just happen to be black, the Home Office destroyed archives that contained proof of eligibility of residence, against their own rules, that caused people to become destitute and/or deported when the government wrongly took away their rights: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43782241 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43782241 This poor guy should be thankful that the government didn't deem him a terrorist and ruin his life completely: https://qz.com/1275866/the-british-government-is-using-simple-tax-errors-as-a-reason-to-deport-migrants/ https://qz.com/1275866/the-british-government-is-using-simpl...

chrisseaton 8y ago
> The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now ... In the case of the Windrush Generation, who just happen to be black, the Home Office destroyed archives that contained proof of eligibility of residence Just to fact check this, https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-who-destroyed-the-windrush-landing-cards https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-who-destro..., it was a Labour-administrated Home Office that decided to destroy them, although it looks like it was a bureaucratic decision rather than a political one and probably no politicians knew anything about it.
- DanBC 8y ago
  The hostile environment is definitely a Conservate thing though.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
ppod 8y ago
Look at this poll: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/dqjh8rbx2e/InternalResults_180425_Immigration.pdf https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/docume... The voters of all parties support these policies. What is "pandering" in a democracy? The people are xenophobes, they are getting what they want.
- ngcazz 8y ago
  I think you're both right, pandering is opposed to leading (and eventually shaping public opinion in a non-nefarious fashion).
  - repolfx 8y ago
    Why should politicians shape opinion? What makes their opinions so much better than that of their voters? Their role is to reflect opinion and implement it. And what does shaping in a non-nefarious manner imply? Politicians already give speeches setting out their positions and they do campaigning to try and convince people to vote for them, as part of setting out the menu that is inherent in a democracy. But is this shaping or is it merely offering options? I don't think there are any non-nefarious ways to "shape" opinion. At most you can argue for your own views and hope the arguments are good.
- YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
  This raises an interesting question: what happens to a democratic society when "the will of the people" embraces principles and ideas that are profoundly anti-democratic? I mean, it's hard to find a definition of "democracy" that would satisfy everyone but, intuitively, xenophobia and open hostility to visitors who clearly mean well and are contributing to the well-being of the community (Lucas was a Cambridge alumnus and in employment when his adventures started) seems to run counter to every reasonable interpretation of "democratic".
  - refurb 8y ago
    That’s a stretch. You could be a fully functional democracy and strict immigration laws.
dmix 8y ago
I find it strange how so often the failures in some low-level bureaucratic system or law enforcement agency, whose failures have existed and were alive well before these 'xenophobe' politicians were ever a thing, gets blamed on some abstract shift in ideology of a small group of politicians. As if all new popular ideas instantly trickle down to all government policy... and everything is to blame on that. How do you explain these kafkaesque failures of immigration systems around the world in countries without a small group of xenophobes in parliament?
- MagnumOpus 8y ago
  Except this is not a failure mode of the bureaucrats, but is deliberate policy handed down by “these xenophobic politicians” who headed up the home Office for the past eight years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office_hostile_environment_policy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office_hostile_environm...

chrisseaton 8y ago

> The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now ... In the case of the Windrush Generation, who just happen to be black, the Home Office destroyed archives that contained proof of eligibility of residence Just to fact check this, https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-who-destroyed-the-windrush-landing-cards https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-who-destro..., it was a Labour-administrated Home Office that decided to destroy them, although it looks like it was a bureaucratic decision rather than a political one and probably no politicians knew anything about it.

DanBC 8y ago
The hostile environment is definitely a Conservate thing though.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

ppod 8y ago

Look at this poll: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/dqjh8rbx2e/InternalResults_180425_Immigration.pdf https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/docume... The voters of all parties support these policies. What is "pandering" in a democracy? The people are xenophobes, they are getting what they want.

ngcazz 8y ago
I think you're both right, pandering is opposed to leading (and eventually shaping public opinion in a non-nefarious fashion).
- repolfx 8y ago
  Why should politicians shape opinion? What makes their opinions so much better than that of their voters? Their role is to reflect opinion and implement it. And what does shaping in a non-nefarious manner imply? Politicians already give speeches setting out their positions and they do campaigning to try and convince people to vote for them, as part of setting out the menu that is inherent in a democracy. But is this shaping or is it merely offering options? I don't think there are any non-nefarious ways to "shape" opinion. At most you can argue for your own views and hope the arguments are good.
YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
This raises an interesting question: what happens to a democratic society when "the will of the people" embraces principles and ideas that are profoundly anti-democratic? I mean, it's hard to find a definition of "democracy" that would satisfy everyone but, intuitively, xenophobia and open hostility to visitors who clearly mean well and are contributing to the well-being of the community (Lucas was a Cambridge alumnus and in employment when his adventures started) seems to run counter to every reasonable interpretation of "democratic".
- refurb 8y ago
  That’s a stretch. You could be a fully functional democracy and strict immigration laws.

dmix 8y ago

I find it strange how so often the failures in some low-level bureaucratic system or law enforcement agency, whose failures have existed and were alive well before these 'xenophobe' politicians were ever a thing, gets blamed on some abstract shift in ideology of a small group of politicians. As if all new popular ideas instantly trickle down to all government policy... and everything is to blame on that. How do you explain these kafkaesque failures of immigration systems around the world in countries without a small group of xenophobes in parliament?

MagnumOpus 8y ago
Except this is not a failure mode of the bureaucrats, but is deliberate policy handed down by “these xenophobic politicians” who headed up the home Office for the past eight years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office_hostile_environment_policy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office_hostile_environm...