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Ask HN: Has your social live taken a downward trend since you started coding

9 points by smithmayowa 8y ago

It seems i am starting to get socially stunted, I tend to forget basic social cues required to really get conversations going with people, and I generally seem to prefer staying indoors nowadays, its not really bad yet though but I am beginning to worry, have you gotten worse socially so far since you started coding.

octosphere 8y ago
Depends on whether you join 'the collective' and spend your time there. Otherwise you could choose the hermetic lifestyle and live on your own terms with your own rules. It's up to you. People have a hard time choosing between the two however and this ties into your identity and The Self; or who you actually are fundamentally.
davismwfl 8y ago
This isn't just something developers/engineers go through many office workers suffer from this same issue when there job has fuzzy endings, e.g. Marketing, Business Development etc. So you aren't alone, I think most everyone goes through some form of work based isolation essentially if they do knowledge work (or have fuzzy endings). The key is to have a few activities you do outside of work that are scheduled and you enjoy. This forces you to do two things, one cut off work, and two interact with other humans doing something non-work focused. For me, I have found coaching youth sports is a great outlet that checks a lot of the boxes, e.g. people interaction, not work related and something I enjoy myself which forces me to be active too. I also love the water, just put me on or in water (pool, ocean, boat etc) and I can nearly instantly relax and enjoy myself. Being outside is healthy, you need a "healthy" amount of sun time as our bodies use it for more than just Vitamin D, just don't cook yourself that doesn't do anyone good. I can seriously tell a difference in my mood and behavior even after just a week if I have been inside too much or we have non-stop rain where I don't get any sun. * edit a couple of words
matfil 8y ago
To an extent, yes, but I'm pretty confident that it's not actually the coding that's the issue, in that I can work solo on something (even something exciting and all-consuming) and context-switch into social or family mode with only a few minutes of transition time. The "software is a team sport" aspect of a lot of professional programming is much more wearing, though. My model for this is that I seem to have a fixed budget of sociability that I can either spend on meeting at work or on friends and family. It's pretty frustrating.
dmitripopov 8y ago
It's a dangerous path of introvert freelancer. At some point it becomes easier to type than to speak. And, damn, coding is addictive.
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  Coding is addictive? It's something I can barely compel myself to do anymore when I'm paid roughly the same to do customer service.
  - whatsstolat 8y ago
    Not the OP, but the coding I find additive is not the coding I get paid for. E.g. playing around with a new language or framework because its fun.
    - anoncoward111 8y ago
      Even coding my fun projects becomes a hassle and annoying when the precise vision I have is not easily and quickly built with the available tools. These days I get an infinite amount of pleasure from chopping onions, carefully cooking them until they caramelize, salting/spicing them ever so slightly, and watching the smiles on my friends faces. It's a definite and immediate payoff, and a visceral one at that :)
  - abledon 8y ago
    It’s addictive for lots of people, everyone has different brain wiring rigs! I agree though that there are tons of easier jobs with higher pay that let u go home at night and still enjoy futzing with sideprojects — esp government with vacation policy and sick days!
CM30 8y ago
What social life? It barely existed before I started coding, and coding hasn't exactly made it any 'worse'. In that sense, it's not really done anything that writing, game development or running internet sites had probably done already. Being introverted and not being too sociable was probably a factor in me becoming a programmer to begin with. But hey, it can definitely hurt your ability to socialise as well, especially if you don't have anything else to do outside of work/computer related activities. That said
whatsstolat 8y ago
I find after a day of just doing coding in an open office environment, I can barely speak to anyone because its so draining.
ak39 8y ago
How many hours a day are you coding without human interaction? Are you taking breaks? The main problem is that we can't switch modes or switch off - even temporarily. This happens to me often. I have been somewhat of a remote worker for the past 18 months, and I agree with you that out of frustration you are likely to choose to remain reclusive and indoors thereby making social (integration) matters worse if you don't do something to realign yourself. Here are my known effective antidotes: 1. When you talk with others, make eye contact. Smile. You don't have to say much. I find that I have to actively force myself to look at the people I'm talking to. There is a lot of "communication" that takes place and cues from the eyes. 2. Make new friends or just acquaintances. I spend 4-5 days per week at the gym at exactly the same time in the day (10:30 am). This is probably the only social interaction I get on an average day outside of my family. By choosing a set time for the gym, I get to meet my own regulars who I've gotten to know over several months. The banter after friendly smiles is as important as a thorough workout for me. 2. Read fiction. I spend 1 hour a day reading well-written fiction. Away from the keyboard. Grab a nice cup of coffee, sit somewhere quiet and read. Choose a book of interest where the writer has full command over his/her language. I am currently reading an English translation of Antoine de Saint-Exupery's "Wind, Sand and Stars". I find reading the non-computer world helps to rewire my mind, now a specialised one-trick pony, back to a general conversational state. Take care.
muzani 8y ago
Having done management, entrepreneurship and sales, I think coding has the best social life. Entrepreneurship - it's literally part of your job to 'network'. But a lot of the people you meet are there to get something from others. It's vapid socializing, sort of like getting full with junk food or catching sleep at the back of a car. Management is similar. You meet people as work. It makes meeting people not very fun especially when there's arguments and uncomfortable conversations. Some of us used to take vacations off after a week of meetings because we just want to get away from people. Sales - you meet a lot of people who may or may not want to meet you. Some are really nice but because it's part of your job, you end up entertaining conversations you don't want to be a part of. So by contrast, developers have the best social life. You can make node_modules meme and someone gets it. You can talk about fun theories - not too difficult like in academia, but the conversations aren't shallow either. You have acquaintances who sincerely enjoy your company, and not because they need something out of you.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
LifeQuestioner 8y ago
No...? But then, if i'm on the computer i'm coding or doing something productive. I don't read the news and I don't have facebook. I'm i'm not "doing something" - i.e something that requires thinking, i'm out and about and exploring. I don't watch tv either...i'm probably more sociable than most people to be fair... I get depressed and demotivated...and stop learning if I don't get enough stimulation...
abledon 8y ago
Yes , it’s a danger to look out for . Definitely try to balance it out with tech meet ups and other activities if you don’t see yourself doing anything else in life as a job —— for me , now when people issue dumb statements lik ‘I cant imagine how they’re do that!!!’ I take it literally like it’s code world and explain to them how .... “jeez man it’s just an expresaion, you know what I mean!” Brain can’t help it. The more of whatever we do influences us and each year it’s harder to change paths as we grow firmer in our habits

9 points by smithmayowa 8y ago

octosphere 8y ago

Depends on whether you join 'the collective' and spend your time there. Otherwise you could choose the hermetic lifestyle and live on your own terms with your own rules. It's up to you. People have a hard time choosing between the two however and this ties into your identity and The Self; or who you actually are fundamentally.

davismwfl 8y ago

This isn't just something developers/engineers go through many office workers suffer from this same issue when there job has fuzzy endings, e.g. Marketing, Business Development etc. So you aren't alone, I think most everyone goes through some form of work based isolation essentially if they do knowledge work (or have fuzzy endings). The key is to have a few activities you do outside of work that are scheduled and you enjoy. This forces you to do two things, one cut off work, and two interact with other humans doing something non-work focused. For me, I have found coaching youth sports is a great outlet that checks a lot of the boxes, e.g. people interaction, not work related and something I enjoy myself which forces me to be active too. I also love the water, just put me on or in water (pool, ocean, boat etc) and I can nearly instantly relax and enjoy myself. Being outside is healthy, you need a "healthy" amount of sun time as our bodies use it for more than just Vitamin D, just don't cook yourself that doesn't do anyone good. I can seriously tell a difference in my mood and behavior even after just a week if I have been inside too much or we have non-stop rain where I don't get any sun. * edit a couple of words

matfil 8y ago

To an extent, yes, but I'm pretty confident that it's not actually the coding that's the issue, in that I can work solo on something (even something exciting and all-consuming) and context-switch into social or family mode with only a few minutes of transition time. The "software is a team sport" aspect of a lot of professional programming is much more wearing, though. My model for this is that I seem to have a fixed budget of sociability that I can either spend on meeting at work or on friends and family. It's pretty frustrating.

dmitripopov 8y ago

It's a dangerous path of introvert freelancer. At some point it becomes easier to type than to speak. And, damn, coding is addictive.

anoncoward111 8y ago
Coding is addictive? It's something I can barely compel myself to do anymore when I'm paid roughly the same to do customer service.
- whatsstolat 8y ago
  Not the OP, but the coding I find additive is not the coding I get paid for. E.g. playing around with a new language or framework because its fun.
  - anoncoward111 8y ago
    Even coding my fun projects becomes a hassle and annoying when the precise vision I have is not easily and quickly built with the available tools. These days I get an infinite amount of pleasure from chopping onions, carefully cooking them until they caramelize, salting/spicing them ever so slightly, and watching the smiles on my friends faces. It's a definite and immediate payoff, and a visceral one at that :)
- abledon 8y ago
  It’s addictive for lots of people, everyone has different brain wiring rigs! I agree though that there are tons of easier jobs with higher pay that let u go home at night and still enjoy futzing with sideprojects — esp government with vacation policy and sick days!

CM30 8y ago

What social life? It barely existed before I started coding, and coding hasn't exactly made it any 'worse'. In that sense, it's not really done anything that writing, game development or running internet sites had probably done already. Being introverted and not being too sociable was probably a factor in me becoming a programmer to begin with. But hey, it can definitely hurt your ability to socialise as well, especially if you don't have anything else to do outside of work/computer related activities. That said

whatsstolat 8y ago

I find after a day of just doing coding in an open office environment, I can barely speak to anyone because its so draining.

ak39 8y ago

How many hours a day are you coding without human interaction? Are you taking breaks? The main problem is that we can't switch modes or switch off - even temporarily. This happens to me often. I have been somewhat of a remote worker for the past 18 months, and I agree with you that out of frustration you are likely to choose to remain reclusive and indoors thereby making social (integration) matters worse if you don't do something to realign yourself. Here are my known effective antidotes: 1. When you talk with others, make eye contact. Smile. You don't have to say much. I find that I have to actively force myself to look at the people I'm talking to. There is a lot of "communication" that takes place and cues from the eyes. 2. Make new friends or just acquaintances. I spend 4-5 days per week at the gym at exactly the same time in the day (10:30 am). This is probably the only social interaction I get on an average day outside of my family. By choosing a set time for the gym, I get to meet my own regulars who I've gotten to know over several months. The banter after friendly smiles is as important as a thorough workout for me. 2. Read fiction. I spend 1 hour a day reading well-written fiction. Away from the keyboard. Grab a nice cup of coffee, sit somewhere quiet and read. Choose a book of interest where the writer has full command over his/her language. I am currently reading an English translation of Antoine de Saint-Exupery's "Wind, Sand and Stars". I find reading the non-computer world helps to rewire my mind, now a specialised one-trick pony, back to a general conversational state. Take care.

muzani 8y ago

Having done management, entrepreneurship and sales, I think coding has the best social life. Entrepreneurship - it's literally part of your job to 'network'. But a lot of the people you meet are there to get something from others. It's vapid socializing, sort of like getting full with junk food or catching sleep at the back of a car. Management is similar. You meet people as work. It makes meeting people not very fun especially when there's arguments and uncomfortable conversations. Some of us used to take vacations off after a week of meetings because we just want to get away from people. Sales - you meet a lot of people who may or may not want to meet you. Some are really nice but because it's part of your job, you end up entertaining conversations you don't want to be a part of. So by contrast, developers have the best social life. You can make node_modules meme and someone gets it. You can talk about fun theories - not too difficult like in academia, but the conversations aren't shallow either. You have acquaintances who sincerely enjoy your company, and not because they need something out of you.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

LifeQuestioner 8y ago

No...? But then, if i'm on the computer i'm coding or doing something productive. I don't read the news and I don't have facebook. I'm i'm not "doing something" - i.e something that requires thinking, i'm out and about and exploring. I don't watch tv either...i'm probably more sociable than most people to be fair... I get depressed and demotivated...and stop learning if I don't get enough stimulation...

abledon 8y ago

Yes , it’s a danger to look out for . Definitely try to balance it out with tech meet ups and other activities if you don’t see yourself doing anything else in life as a job —— for me , now when people issue dumb statements lik ‘I cant imagine how they’re do that!!!’ I take it literally like it’s code world and explain to them how .... “jeez man it’s just an expresaion, you know what I mean!” Brain can’t help it. The more of whatever we do influences us and each year it’s harder to change paths as we grow firmer in our habits