5 ms·

Strange world we live in where $100k is something to scoff at. I get it's silicon valley but sheesh.

by HiroshiSan 8y ago

realusername 8y ago
It's probably because the rent there looks about 2k$/month, it really puts the salary in perspective.
- maccard 8y ago
  After tax and 2k a month on rent, you're left with more than most western European engineers _gross_ salaries.
  - realusername 8y ago
    And so what? It does not invalidate my point, especially compared to the other salaries in the area. Also you did not include the cost of living there, which is probably very high.
    - maccard 8y ago
      IMO, it does invalidate your point. You said: "It really puts the salary in perspective." It doesn't. To take the cost of living into consideration: $100k after tax in SF is ~70k. With 2k in rent, you have ~$46,000 p/a. An "average" grad in London is probably grossing at most $40k (£31k) After tax, that's ~£25k, and in London, you can easily be set back £800/month on rent. So you're left with less than £14,000 which is about $18k. Are you really telling me that to maintain the same standard of living in SF will cost you 2 and a half times more after rent?
  - AllegedAlec 8y ago
    Indeed. I get roughly 38K gross and pay nearly 1K for an apartment at the moment. Silicon valley is a horrible place and I wouldn't want to be found dead over there, but the salaries are really fucking amazing, even the ones people scoff at.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
nmyk 8y ago
Agreed re: strange world. But $100k is far below the market rate, which is what’s really being scoffed at.
- i_cant_speel 8y ago
  The average salary in SF is 129K per year. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-engineer-new-grad-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,40.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-en... 100k is not unreasonable for a new grad.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    Salary =/= total comp.
    - i_cant_speel 8y ago
      Yes but I'm comparing the average salary in SF to the salary OP received.
      - ummonk 8y ago
        The OP was not receiving any stock, ergo his total compensation of $100k was far below the market rate.
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    Glassdoor is known to under-represent salaries. Check out their survey for Google: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm
MrEfficiency 8y ago
Eh, I scoff at Ford Motor company trying to get experienced people at 83k/yr. Sure its a decent pay vs Walmart cashier, but once you are paid 115, you cannot go back.
dunpeal 8y ago
Market value for engineers in that area is $160-200k. Should OP apologize for declining $100k? He went through an long and arduous interview process, to be rewarded with an offer that is less than 50% than his objective market value. Should he be grateful? IBM wasted his time and their own. I don't get this strange reluctance to accept that us engineers are finally commanding decent compensation. You don't see CEOs shaming each other for declining low offers. Everyone gets paid as much as they can. Why are we engineers supposed to be grateful for anything thrown our way? Are we morally obliged to race to the bottom?
- streblo 8y ago
  Market value for new grads is not $160-200k
  - gaius 8y ago
    Including RSUs I presume
    - streblo 8y ago
      The original post specified "no stock options".
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    > For comparison, the average new grad offer in Silicon Valley at a FAANG company here is $160k. If you play your cards right, you can negotiate this to $190k+. OP is implying that IBM is going for the same caliber of talent as FAANG, then lowballing at the end of the process, after you spent 3 days on site. I had that happen to me with a different company in the valley so I know how frustrating it is. Personally I'd expect IBM to try to compete with FAANG, so I also understand the surprise there. Finally, OP apparently did get his $160k+ offer eventually, so he was right that IBM lowballed him.
    - vonmoltke 8y ago
      Using FAANG salaries for the market value of engineers is like using Big Law salaries for the market value of lawyers. They represent a pinnacle, not a typical.

Strange world we live in where $100k is something to scoff at. I get it's silicon valley but sheesh.

realusername 8y ago

It's probably because the rent there looks about 2k$/month, it really puts the salary in perspective.

maccard 8y ago
After tax and 2k a month on rent, you're left with more than most western European engineers _gross_ salaries.
- realusername 8y ago
  And so what? It does not invalidate my point, especially compared to the other salaries in the area. Also you did not include the cost of living there, which is probably very high.
  - maccard 8y ago
    IMO, it does invalidate your point. You said: "It really puts the salary in perspective." It doesn't. To take the cost of living into consideration: $100k after tax in SF is ~70k. With 2k in rent, you have ~$46,000 p/a. An "average" grad in London is probably grossing at most $40k (£31k) After tax, that's ~£25k, and in London, you can easily be set back £800/month on rent. So you're left with less than £14,000 which is about $18k. Are you really telling me that to maintain the same standard of living in SF will cost you 2 and a half times more after rent?
- AllegedAlec 8y ago
  Indeed. I get roughly 38K gross and pay nearly 1K for an apartment at the moment. Silicon valley is a horrible place and I wouldn't want to be found dead over there, but the salaries are really fucking amazing, even the ones people scoff at.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

nmyk 8y ago

Agreed re: strange world. But $100k is far below the market rate, which is what’s really being scoffed at.

i_cant_speel 8y ago
The average salary in SF is 129K per year. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-engineer-new-grad-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,40.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-en... 100k is not unreasonable for a new grad.
- ummonk 8y ago
  Salary =/= total comp.
  - i_cant_speel 8y ago
    Yes but I'm comparing the average salary in SF to the salary OP received.
    - ummonk 8y ago
      The OP was not receiving any stock, ergo his total compensation of $100k was far below the market rate.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  Glassdoor is known to under-represent salaries. Check out their survey for Google: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm

MrEfficiency 8y ago

Eh, I scoff at Ford Motor company trying to get experienced people at 83k/yr. Sure its a decent pay vs Walmart cashier, but once you are paid 115, you cannot go back.

dunpeal 8y ago

Market value for engineers in that area is $160-200k. Should OP apologize for declining $100k? He went through an long and arduous interview process, to be rewarded with an offer that is less than 50% than his objective market value. Should he be grateful? IBM wasted his time and their own. I don't get this strange reluctance to accept that us engineers are finally commanding decent compensation. You don't see CEOs shaming each other for declining low offers. Everyone gets paid as much as they can. Why are we engineers supposed to be grateful for anything thrown our way? Are we morally obliged to race to the bottom?

streblo 8y ago
Market value for new grads is not $160-200k
- gaius 8y ago
  Including RSUs I presume
  - streblo 8y ago
    The original post specified "no stock options".
- dunpeal 8y ago
  > For comparison, the average new grad offer in Silicon Valley at a FAANG company here is $160k. If you play your cards right, you can negotiate this to $190k+. OP is implying that IBM is going for the same caliber of talent as FAANG, then lowballing at the end of the process, after you spent 3 days on site. I had that happen to me with a different company in the valley so I know how frustrating it is. Personally I'd expect IBM to try to compete with FAANG, so I also understand the surprise there. Finally, OP apparently did get his $160k+ offer eventually, so he was right that IBM lowballed him.
  - vonmoltke 8y ago
    Using FAANG salaries for the market value of engineers is like using Big Law salaries for the market value of lawyers. They represent a pinnacle, not a typical.