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Problem is, it's nigh impossible for a tech company to "strike deals with all the theater chains," be they sweetheart or not so sweet. The movie theater biz is

Problem is, it's nigh impossible for a tech company to "strike deals with all the theater chains," be they sweetheart or not so sweet. The movie theater biz is one of the most inept around, stuck in the 1950's in terms of its business model. I did a tech startup that tried to bring social/mobile/local tech to the movie theater experience, and the theaters balked. They fear technology. It took a decade of fearmongering for theaters to fork over millions to buy digital projectors. The last thing they want is tech that will empower moviegoers. What you discover with the "exhibition industry" (what theaters like to call themselves) is that they are in the fast-food business. Popcorn, soda, candy, junk food: this is what the theater sells. The movie is there just to bring you into the building. But what they want you to buy is the concessions. Without the movie nobody in the world would wander into a theater and order a popcorn and a soda for $12 or whatever. When I spoke with exhibitors, I found them to be like realtors: really paranoid, untrusting of their competition, and particularly untrusting of uppity little tech startups (can't really blame 'em, I mean, if a tech startup ever gets successful they tend to wipe out everything in their wake--witness Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Craigslist, etc.) Despite the fact that we had built an app that presented a compelling case for a $1 billion or higher bump in annual U.S. box office revenue--we basically came up with ways to get more people to go to more movies more often--the exhibitors would have none of it. They didn't trust it, they wanted nothing to do with it. ESPECIALLY if their competitors in the same city had the same tech. The idea of a mobile app that empowered moviegoers to get alerted to every moving coming, and track upcoming movies after you indicated you liked the trailer, and tracked your favorite stars/directors/etc, and tracked the reviews of your favorite critics, and tracked what your friends were planning to go see, none of that meant diddly to exhibitors. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. The way theaters are trying to survive now is by focusing on what their core competence is: food. Notice how many theaters now sell hamburgers and pizza and sandwiches, and beer and wine, and so on. You go to a movie now, you may be set back for $30 in meal fees per person easily. For an exhibitor, that's nirvana. Nah, MoviePass was doomed from day one.

paxys 8y ago
That isn't always true - e.g. Fandango was able to find success even when theaters wanted nothing to do with the internet, until all of them were forced to partner with it or risk being left out.
- masonic 8y ago
  But Fandango makes its money directly from the user, in fees.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
joe_the_user 8y ago
Let me raise another hypothesis. The real value that movie theaters have today is their ability to shape taste and choose winners. Of course, they don't and can't control tastes completely but they can strongly shape them by determining what's put in front of people. Some mainstream movies are good, some are bad. Some alternative movies are good, some are bad. But for overall movies production and profiting process, the movies that make the most money have spin-offs, have predictable sequels, have merchandise, can be sold to middle-class third world people who aspire to American or European lifestyles and so-forth. These make the most profits. So movie theaters help the industry by putting more movies with this extra profit potential in front of people. How exactly they get compensated for this is I couldn't answer in detail but ownership of the largest chains is very incestuous. But this model requires a situation people first to go to a movie and later to decide which movie. So this would give the result. It's bad to movie goers power to decide to see. It's bad even if that means more movie theater revenue.
jasonkester 8y ago
Any chance the theaters were being rational and it was in fact you who were mistaken? The idea of an app that makes people watch more movies does seem pretty far fetched the way you describe it. A more logical conclusion would be that you either didn't sell your thing to them very well (as you haven't sold it to us) or that they, being in the movie business, saw something about it that you, being in the app business, didn't.
- phobosdeimos 8y ago
  Its not far fetched because such apps actually exist and do everything he/she describes. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sharewire.Pathe2 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sharewire....
  - Splyce 8y ago
    I dont believe he was making the point the app wouldnt function or didnt exist but more that the claims being made about said app would hold true. From what i gathered is this guys app would not just increase movie goers attendance but increase it by $1 billion worth a year. Thats some really bold claims and I doubt any serious investor would pass up if there was any sort of data to back it up.
- xiaosun 8y ago
  $1B is an ~8% increase in industry revenue. That doesn't feel extremely significant in terms of value added.
chongli 8y ago
The way I see it is that movie theatre owners don't want film enthusiasts. People who see a lot of movies tend not to buy concessions, all they do is take up seats which the theatre is basically giving away for free to the studios. What theatre owners really want are the blockbuster movies that draw the general public. They love when a family of 5 comes in to watch the Incredibles 2 and spends a small fortune on food to keep the kids happy. This is why movie theatres have sold mostly junk food all these years.
compcoffee 8y ago
>The movie theater biz is one of the most inept around, stuck in the 1950's in terms of its business model. Meanwhile, they are still (for the most part) in business, decades later, while "cool" business models like MoviePass cost shareholders millions and blow out in less than a year. Who should be learning from whom?
- icedchai 8y ago
  Movie Pass made no sense from the start. It’s the dot-com “lose money on every customer and make it up in volume” model all over again.

paxys 8y ago

That isn't always true - e.g. Fandango was able to find success even when theaters wanted nothing to do with the internet, until all of them were forced to partner with it or risk being left out.

masonic 8y ago
But Fandango makes its money directly from the user, in fees.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

joe_the_user 8y ago

Let me raise another hypothesis. The real value that movie theaters have today is their ability to shape taste and choose winners. Of course, they don't and can't control tastes completely but they can strongly shape them by determining what's put in front of people. Some mainstream movies are good, some are bad. Some alternative movies are good, some are bad. But for overall movies production and profiting process, the movies that make the most money have spin-offs, have predictable sequels, have merchandise, can be sold to middle-class third world people who aspire to American or European lifestyles and so-forth. These make the most profits. So movie theaters help the industry by putting more movies with this extra profit potential in front of people. How exactly they get compensated for this is I couldn't answer in detail but ownership of the largest chains is very incestuous. But this model requires a situation people first to go to a movie and later to decide which movie. So this would give the result. It's bad to movie goers power to decide to see. It's bad even if that means more movie theater revenue.

jasonkester 8y ago

Any chance the theaters were being rational and it was in fact you who were mistaken? The idea of an app that makes people watch more movies does seem pretty far fetched the way you describe it. A more logical conclusion would be that you either didn't sell your thing to them very well (as you haven't sold it to us) or that they, being in the movie business, saw something about it that you, being in the app business, didn't.

phobosdeimos 8y ago
Its not far fetched because such apps actually exist and do everything he/she describes. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sharewire.Pathe2 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sharewire....
- Splyce 8y ago
  I dont believe he was making the point the app wouldnt function or didnt exist but more that the claims being made about said app would hold true. From what i gathered is this guys app would not just increase movie goers attendance but increase it by $1 billion worth a year. Thats some really bold claims and I doubt any serious investor would pass up if there was any sort of data to back it up.
xiaosun 8y ago
$1B is an ~8% increase in industry revenue. That doesn't feel extremely significant in terms of value added.

chongli 8y ago

The way I see it is that movie theatre owners don't want film enthusiasts. People who see a lot of movies tend not to buy concessions, all they do is take up seats which the theatre is basically giving away for free to the studios. What theatre owners really want are the blockbuster movies that draw the general public. They love when a family of 5 comes in to watch the Incredibles 2 and spends a small fortune on food to keep the kids happy. This is why movie theatres have sold mostly junk food all these years.

compcoffee 8y ago

>The movie theater biz is one of the most inept around, stuck in the 1950's in terms of its business model. Meanwhile, they are still (for the most part) in business, decades later, while "cool" business models like MoviePass cost shareholders millions and blow out in less than a year. Who should be learning from whom?

icedchai 8y ago
Movie Pass made no sense from the start. It’s the dot-com “lose money on every customer and make it up in volume” model all over again.