5 ms·

Hmm, yeah, you know what now that you mention it there's loads of charismatic billionaires in prison for their tweets.

by leesec 8y ago

jacquesm 8y ago
It's not the tweets, it is the effect they have on the stock price and that in turn can lead to losses with others or gains for Musk and either one of those can come back hard. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Stock_trading_case_and_conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Stock_trading_c... For how little it takes to get in serious hot water.
- zaroth 8y ago
  Can you show even $1 in gains by Musk? The tweet quite clearly cost Musk tremendously. Two bad words without any profit motive, I doubt extremely this leads to a conviction, but speculation is cheap!
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    The stock jumped up enormously afterwards, and even if that wasn't Musk's goal it was pretty predictable that it would. Not gaining from it is no excuse for doing something illegal (and stupid to boot).
    - zaroth 8y ago
      The gains after the tweet were gone within a minute. The stock was up enormously before the tweet was even made. If anything the stock is down from the whole affair. Is it illegal for Musk to tweet something false on Twitter? I don’t think so. On April 1 he tweeted the company was bankrupt! Keep in perspective this is two words in one tweet. When people asked questions did Tesla follow up with lies and stonewalling or more information? These are all factors which you might consider before throwing someone in jail or telling them they can’t work at the company they built.
      - danso 8y ago
        On Monday, August 6, the stock closed at 341.99. On the next day, the day of the tweet, it closed at 379.57, and remained higher than the Aug. 6 price until close of today at $338.69. It does seem to reckless to be a deliberate illicit plan, but then again, tweeting at all about it seemed too reckless to even contemplate, and yet here we are.
      - danso 8y ago
        IANAL, but it's not illegal for Musk to tweet falsehoods, period, on Twitter -- such as lying about his height -- but it is illegal to disseminate false info that may be used by investors. Do you seriously see no difference between an acknowledged April Fool's joke and a statement regarding a significant change in ownership and financing of a company? Via SEC Rule 10b-5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_Rule_10b-5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_Rule_10b-5 It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, by the use of any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce, or of the mails or of any facility of any national securities exchange, (a) To employ any device, scheme, or artifice to defraud, (b) To make any untrue statement of a material fact or to omit to state a material fact necessary in order to make the statements made, in the light of the circumstances under which they were made, not misleading, or (c) To engage in any act, practice, or course of business which operates or would operate as a fraud or deceit upon any person, in connection with the purchase or sale of any security."
        zaroth 8y ago
        Thanks for quoting the law. It’s that last line which I’m specifically curious about. What if there was no purchase or sale of any security in connection with the misleading statement?
      - jacquesm 8y ago
        Your story does not line up with the facts as I know them. Besides that, yes, as the CEO of a listed company you have a rulebook to follow in case you do stuff that can influence the stock price (positive or negative, it does not even matter). There is a format for the release of material information to ensure that the stock market remains viable, if you do not follow that format you risk getting the book thrown at you. So yes, there are all kinds of factors that will determine what if anything comes of this. But Elon tweeting the company was bankrupt on April 1st was irresponsible, this one is just plain bonkers. Either he had funding lined up and then he should have followed proper form anyway or he is completely out of touch and focused on the wrong things. Too little sleep will do funny things with you. If you have the kind of plans that Elon Musk does you should probably try to avoid jail time because that might mean your toys get taken away from you.
dekhn 8y ago
"Only little people pay taxes" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley
coatmatter 8y ago
Not a billionaire, but Martin Shkreli is coming to mind right now.

Hmm, yeah, you know what now that you mention it there's loads of charismatic billionaires in prison for their tweets.

by leesec 8y ago

Hmm, yeah, you know what now that you mention it there's loads of charismatic billionaires in prison for their tweets.

It's not the tweets, it is the effect they have on the stock price and that in turn can lead to losses with others or gains for Musk and either one of those can come back hard. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Stock_trading_case_and_conviction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Stock_trading_c... For how little it takes to get in serious hot water.

zaroth 8y ago
Can you show even $1 in gains by Musk? The tweet quite clearly cost Musk tremendously. Two bad words without any profit motive, I doubt extremely this leads to a conviction, but speculation is cheap!
- jacquesm 8y ago
  The stock jumped up enormously afterwards, and even if that wasn't Musk's goal it was pretty predictable that it would. Not gaining from it is no excuse for doing something illegal (and stupid to boot).
  - zaroth 8y ago
    The gains after the tweet were gone within a minute. The stock was up enormously before the tweet was even made. If anything the stock is down from the whole affair. Is it illegal for Musk to tweet something false on Twitter? I don’t think so. On April 1 he tweeted the company was bankrupt! Keep in perspective this is two words in one tweet. When people asked questions did Tesla follow up with lies and stonewalling or more information? These are all factors which you might consider before throwing someone in jail or telling them they can’t work at the company they built.
    - danso 8y ago
      On Monday, August 6, the stock closed at 341.99. On the next day, the day of the tweet, it closed at 379.57, and remained higher than the Aug. 6 price until close of today at $338.69. It does seem to reckless to be a deliberate illicit plan, but then again, tweeting at all about it seemed too reckless to even contemplate, and yet here we are.
    - danso 8y ago
      IANAL, but it's not illegal for Musk to tweet falsehoods, period, on Twitter -- such as lying about his height -- but it is illegal to disseminate false info that may be used by investors. Do you seriously see no difference between an acknowledged April Fool's joke and a statement regarding a significant change in ownership and financing of a company? Via SEC Rule 10b-5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_Rule_10b-5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_Rule_10b-5 It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, by the use of any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce, or of the mails or of any facility of any national securities exchange, (a) To employ any device, scheme, or artifice to defraud, (b) To make any untrue statement of a material fact or to omit to state a material fact necessary in order to make the statements made, in the light of the circumstances under which they were made, not misleading, or (c) To engage in any act, practice, or course of business which operates or would operate as a fraud or deceit upon any person, in connection with the purchase or sale of any security."
      - zaroth 8y ago
        Thanks for quoting the law. It’s that last line which I’m specifically curious about. What if there was no purchase or sale of any security in connection with the misleading statement?
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      Your story does not line up with the facts as I know them. Besides that, yes, as the CEO of a listed company you have a rulebook to follow in case you do stuff that can influence the stock price (positive or negative, it does not even matter). There is a format for the release of material information to ensure that the stock market remains viable, if you do not follow that format you risk getting the book thrown at you. So yes, there are all kinds of factors that will determine what if anything comes of this. But Elon tweeting the company was bankrupt on April 1st was irresponsible, this one is just plain bonkers. Either he had funding lined up and then he should have followed proper form anyway or he is completely out of touch and focused on the wrong things. Too little sleep will do funny things with you. If you have the kind of plans that Elon Musk does you should probably try to avoid jail time because that might mean your toys get taken away from you.

dekhn 8y ago

"Only little people pay taxes" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley

coatmatter 8y ago

Not a billionaire, but Martin Shkreli is coming to mind right now.