7 ms·

For those who just read the headline and are thinking about (or even commenting on) cops being "physically" in the U.S. to spy on people, no, it is not what's h

For those who just read the headline and are thinking about (or even commenting on) cops being "physically" in the U.S. to spy on people, no, it is not what's happening. The headline is grossly misleading. The only news here is relatives calling overseas Chinese (who are Uighurs) to collect information on their overseas employment, ID and financial information (presumably instructed by the police). It is invasion of privacy, of course. But I don't think it is that bad of a measure to counter religious extremism and radicalism. Similar measures are in place or planned in U.S. (Muslim registry, surrendering your social media accounts upon immigration check-in). The bulk of the article then goes on and on talking about China's influence and old news about reports within China on human rights and surveillance (which you have seen a millions times in every news about China). Honestly I am amused by the fact that Western media need to recount back all the past events whenever some new information about China emerges. I don't know, it feels like they are just doing this to please their readers by reinforcing the negative image of China. Full disclosure: I am an overseas Chinese who hasn't been contacted by the police, but then again I am not a Uighur.

volkisch 8y ago
> it feels like they are just doing this to please their readers by reinforcing the negative image of China. It's not like China has been doing a good job on removing this negative image of themselves, aren't they? Granted, not that they should care, they just pay attention at their own game. Either yanks or russians pulling strings in MENA to satisfy their geopolitical ambitions, or the CPC doing the same in Subsaharan Africa, or major cities of the western world. It shouldn't really surprise you to see headlines like this.
- paradite 8y ago
  What I mean is double standard in reporting: Does every negative article about UK talk about brexit? Does every negative article about Trump talk about his sexist remark? (Granted, Trump might be in similar situation as China) Does every negative article about Russia talk about annexation of Crimea? Not that I've seen. Edit: confusing wording.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Yes. Yes. Yes. I’m not sure what your point is here?
    - paradite 8y ago
      I am too lazy to google, but here is the first result when searching for "russia election meddling", which does not talking about annexation of Crimea (hence proving your third "yes" wrong): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/03/trump-russia-more-election-meddling-evidence-found-says-senate-panel https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/03/trump-russia... The point is, every news article that is negative towards China will talk about all the previous negative articles about China regardless of their age or relevance.
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        Your point was muddled. You asked do I read everything about Russia annexing Crimea, I replied “yes.” Not that every article about Russia was also about crimea. That isn’t true, nor is it true that every even negative article about China mentions Uighurs.
        paradite 8y ago
        My bad, fixed my wording. Do send me an article that talks about something negative about Chinese government but doesn't mention Uighurs if you come across one. I would like to keep it. My contact information is pretty easy to find.
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        You don’t really need to look very far, see: https://www.wsj.com/news/types/china-news https://www.wsj.com/news/types/china-news https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/china https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/china https://www.cnn.com/china https://www.cnn.com/china https://www.economist.com/sections/china https://www.economist.com/sections/china Look at any article that is negative and not about xinjiang. Eg China lending crisis doesn’t mention Uighurs at all. I personally recommend the Economist’s recent article in Tianjin’s current building bust. I mean, I saw derelict skyscraper husks when I first visited tianjin in 1999, that’s still a think in 2018???
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  China doesn’t really care what the rest of the world thinks about it, so they aren’t thinking of their international image when they do things like this. Reading the Chinese press makes this even more obvious, and leads to an even poorer image of China than CNN could ever accomplish. The western media actually makes China look better in that way.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    I think that's a mistake to say; I'd say rather that their goals of national unity without domestic challenge override their international image in this case. It's really no different than Trump's obsession with purging immigrants overriding the hit to the US' reputation that his policies have caused
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      With Trump, however, most Americans know he is hurting our image abroad. In China, they are almost completely oblivious to global PR.
      - emodendroket 8y ago
        What do you base that claim on?
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        US western media talks a lot about how trump is damaging our image. Chinese media never even mentions how Xi or decisions made in China are giving it a bad reputation.
        emodendroket 8y ago
        Perhaps, but you are assuming, I think unjustifiably, that Chinese people are unable to use their imaginations or what information they can find online (the censorship is largely reactive). Also, Chinese papers often will highlight foreign criticism to rebut it and foreign criticism can sometimes be a galvanizing force. On a more basic level I have to imagine that when Chinese people heard Xi Jingping talking about his principle of non-interference in internal affairs they have some idea that he's rejecting foreign criticism. Additionally, China is a global power and has to care about its reputation to the extent it affects its international projects.
emodendroket 8y ago
They're conducting full-on ethnic cleansing and using the War on Terror as a cover. The US is involved in enough human rights atrocities that it might not be in a great place to criticize, but let's not kid ourselves here.
chatmasta 8y ago
> But I don't think it is that bad of a measure to counter religious extremism and radicalism. Similar measures are in place or planned in U.S. (Muslim registry, surrendering your social media accounts upon immigration check-in). While it’s true that “similar measures are in place in the US,” I’m not sure everyone agrees it’s “not that bad of a measure...” People in the US have been outraged over these proposals; using them as an example of normalization is disingenuous at best.
- paradite 8y ago
  It is true that not everyone agrees it is not a bad measure. But that's not what I mean. What I mean is: - "I" don't think it is not bad. - Some policy makers in the U.S. are doing similar things, so there are at least some people who (agrees with me and) also think it is not bad.

volkisch 8y ago

> it feels like they are just doing this to please their readers by reinforcing the negative image of China. It's not like China has been doing a good job on removing this negative image of themselves, aren't they? Granted, not that they should care, they just pay attention at their own game. Either yanks or russians pulling strings in MENA to satisfy their geopolitical ambitions, or the CPC doing the same in Subsaharan Africa, or major cities of the western world. It shouldn't really surprise you to see headlines like this.

paradite 8y ago
What I mean is double standard in reporting: Does every negative article about UK talk about brexit? Does every negative article about Trump talk about his sexist remark? (Granted, Trump might be in similar situation as China) Does every negative article about Russia talk about annexation of Crimea? Not that I've seen. Edit: confusing wording.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Yes. Yes. Yes. I’m not sure what your point is here?
  - paradite 8y ago
    I am too lazy to google, but here is the first result when searching for "russia election meddling", which does not talking about annexation of Crimea (hence proving your third "yes" wrong): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/03/trump-russia-more-election-meddling-evidence-found-says-senate-panel https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/03/trump-russia... The point is, every news article that is negative towards China will talk about all the previous negative articles about China regardless of their age or relevance.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      Your point was muddled. You asked do I read everything about Russia annexing Crimea, I replied “yes.” Not that every article about Russia was also about crimea. That isn’t true, nor is it true that every even negative article about China mentions Uighurs.
      - paradite 8y ago
        My bad, fixed my wording. Do send me an article that talks about something negative about Chinese government but doesn't mention Uighurs if you come across one. I would like to keep it. My contact information is pretty easy to find.
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        You don’t really need to look very far, see: https://www.wsj.com/news/types/china-news https://www.wsj.com/news/types/china-news https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/china https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/china https://www.cnn.com/china https://www.cnn.com/china https://www.economist.com/sections/china https://www.economist.com/sections/china Look at any article that is negative and not about xinjiang. Eg China lending crisis doesn’t mention Uighurs at all. I personally recommend the Economist’s recent article in Tianjin’s current building bust. I mean, I saw derelict skyscraper husks when I first visited tianjin in 1999, that’s still a think in 2018???
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
China doesn’t really care what the rest of the world thinks about it, so they aren’t thinking of their international image when they do things like this. Reading the Chinese press makes this even more obvious, and leads to an even poorer image of China than CNN could ever accomplish. The western media actually makes China look better in that way.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  I think that's a mistake to say; I'd say rather that their goals of national unity without domestic challenge override their international image in this case. It's really no different than Trump's obsession with purging immigrants overriding the hit to the US' reputation that his policies have caused
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    With Trump, however, most Americans know he is hurting our image abroad. In China, they are almost completely oblivious to global PR.
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      What do you base that claim on?
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        US western media talks a lot about how trump is damaging our image. Chinese media never even mentions how Xi or decisions made in China are giving it a bad reputation.
        emodendroket 8y ago
        Perhaps, but you are assuming, I think unjustifiably, that Chinese people are unable to use their imaginations or what information they can find online (the censorship is largely reactive). Also, Chinese papers often will highlight foreign criticism to rebut it and foreign criticism can sometimes be a galvanizing force. On a more basic level I have to imagine that when Chinese people heard Xi Jingping talking about his principle of non-interference in internal affairs they have some idea that he's rejecting foreign criticism. Additionally, China is a global power and has to care about its reputation to the extent it affects its international projects.

emodendroket 8y ago

They're conducting full-on ethnic cleansing and using the War on Terror as a cover. The US is involved in enough human rights atrocities that it might not be in a great place to criticize, but let's not kid ourselves here.

chatmasta 8y ago

> But I don't think it is that bad of a measure to counter religious extremism and radicalism. Similar measures are in place or planned in U.S. (Muslim registry, surrendering your social media accounts upon immigration check-in). While it’s true that “similar measures are in place in the US,” I’m not sure everyone agrees it’s “not that bad of a measure...” People in the US have been outraged over these proposals; using them as an example of normalization is disingenuous at best.

paradite 8y ago
It is true that not everyone agrees it is not a bad measure. But that's not what I mean. What I mean is: - "I" don't think it is not bad. - Some policy makers in the U.S. are doing similar things, so there are at least some people who (agrees with me and) also think it is not bad.