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> Suprised me to learn that the top floors were the cheapest because the buildings were made of wood with no organized fire service and burned down all the tim

> Suprised me to learn that the top floors were the cheapest because the buildings were made of wood with no organized fire service and burned down all the time, so being upstairs was a death sentence. The top floors in most prewar walkups in NYC are the cheapest today, even though all have sturdy fire escapes. People don't want to walk up 5 flights of stairs every day, and they also get swelteringly hot on the top floors during the summer, whereas lower floors stay cooler.

ghaff 8y ago
>People don't want to walk up 5 flights of stairs every day, and they also get swelteringly hot on the top floors during the summer, whereas lower floors stay cooler. Being on the top floor of a building without A/C can definitely be an issue with respect to heat. However, while having to lug a bunch of groceries (or whatever) up multiple flights of stairs can be an pain, is "walking up 5 flights of stairs a day" really a big issue? [Obviously for some people with infirmities it will be.] I work--well, when I commute--in a 4 story office building and most people, including myself, take the stairs when we move between floors for meeting, cafeteria, etc. We at least used to have signs encouraging taking the steps.
- sethhochberg 8y ago
  Its much more of a hassle concern than it is a realistic inability to climb multiple flights of stairs. Manhattan would be a really, really terrible/uncomfortable place to live if you couldn't physically navigate at least a few flights of stairs at once between subway stations, split-level stores and restaurants, residential buildings, etc, etc. Just thinking anecdotally, myself and many of my neighbors in NYC are probably dealing with a dozen or more flights or stairs up and down on a daily basis (two flights down out of the apartment building, half a flight up to the street level from the sunken entrance, another 2 flights back down into the subway station, 2 flights up on the other end of the train ride, a flight in the grocery store, two flights at the gym, etc, etc, etc). Escalators are often present, but many people walk up those anyways. I'd feel comfortable saying people living here are generally in far, far better stair-climbing-shape than most of the country.
- volkl48 8y ago
  I've lived in one before. It is definitely a significant inconvenience. Some examples: - I biked to work. Carrying my bike up 5 stories of narrow stairs, bumping into everything, every evening was not a fun way to end my day. - Moving any heavy/bulky object will make even paid movers cry. - It makes coming and going feel like a sizable task. That said, I still preferred it over a lower floor, because it meant no noise from above and less street noise.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  > most people, including myself, take the stairs when we move between floors for meeting, cafeteria, etc. How common is this? I never see people take the stairs when there's an elevator. I always take the elevator even if it's just one floor and I have to wait a while.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    Lots of people do it for the steps. I take the stairs pretty much anytime I know where they are. I guess I'd think about it for more than a few stories.
  - WalterBright 8y ago
    I never take the elevator for one floor, unless I'm with people who'd moan if we took the stairs. The stairs are much quicker, and I'm impatient.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Maybe it's a default cultural thing at your company. Possibly taking the steps is a "nudge" to suggest. Taking an elevator for one floor would seem almost weird where I work unless there were some physical issue.
  - tspike 8y ago
    This is by far the easiest way to build some exercise into your daily routine. I have a hard time grasping why people stand on escalators, as well.
    - _ph_ 8y ago
      The problem with escalators is, that the steps are usually higher than those of stairs, as they are not optimized for walking. If you are very tall, this makes little difference, but for not so tall people, using the steps of an escalator is a bit uncomfortable. As a consequence, I usually step them only on very short escalators or when I am in quite of a hurry.
  - cafard 8y ago
    In the early 1980s, I would routinely walk up the escalators, including stopped ones, on the deepest Washington Metro stations. In the 2010s, I take the elevator two floors. I walk several miles per day, I run varying distances each weekend, but something in one knee doesn't like stairs these days.
- Naga 8y ago
  I'd say that the difference between lots of stairs and and no stairs is enough to cause a difference in price for rent. I'd say that this is the market working as intended. Or, if you believe that it is not a big deal, you can abuse the market inefficiency ;)
- Someone 8y ago
  The stairs in your office likely are a lot less steep than the ones in those apartment buildings. Also, if you had heating, somebody had to lug up coal, and parents (about everybody was one, at the time, and the mothers were pregnant quite often) would have to lug up small children. And it isn’t “5 flights of stairs a day”. Chances are the toilet was at least one stair away, too.
- _ph_ 8y ago
  There is a huge difference between walking several flights of stairs over the day and having to walk 5 flights of stairs in a stretch every time you want to go up to your appartment. I live on the 3rd floor, and I am very happy that I have an elevator. I try to use the stairs as often as possible. But some time back the elevator was down for 5 weeks and I for sure started planning each trip out of my appartment. This all depends of course on the overall state of your fitness, and how heavy you are. Ideally, one never would use an elevator and hence be very fit and less overweight. And this doesn't count in any kind of medical condition which limit or even prohibit you from taking many (or any) stairs. For all the practical benefits both elevators and cars have brought to the modern human, they certainly have a big drawback on the average fitness. I try to use stairs as much as possible, and on an average day I certainly klimb 12 flights, but would no longer consider an appartment in the 3rd floor without an elevator for when it is needed.
JackFr 8y ago
Also your water pressure sucks.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > Also your water pressure sucks. That isn't my experience with the top floors of NYC prewar walkups today (and trust me, I've had a lot of that!), but I could see that being an issue in other places or in previous times. I don't think that'd have been a driving factor in ancient Rome, though, given how different their uses of their plumbing technology were from ours. They had public toilets and baths (at ground level), so water pressure for washing and bathing wouldn't be a concern for top-floor apartments the way it would be for us today.
pradn 8y ago
On the other hand, you get a good amount of light.
Scoundreller 8y ago
At least the heating is free the other 6 months of the year.

ghaff 8y ago

>People don't want to walk up 5 flights of stairs every day, and they also get swelteringly hot on the top floors during the summer, whereas lower floors stay cooler. Being on the top floor of a building without A/C can definitely be an issue with respect to heat. However, while having to lug a bunch of groceries (or whatever) up multiple flights of stairs can be an pain, is "walking up 5 flights of stairs a day" really a big issue? [Obviously for some people with infirmities it will be.] I work--well, when I commute--in a 4 story office building and most people, including myself, take the stairs when we move between floors for meeting, cafeteria, etc. We at least used to have signs encouraging taking the steps.

sethhochberg 8y ago
Its much more of a hassle concern than it is a realistic inability to climb multiple flights of stairs. Manhattan would be a really, really terrible/uncomfortable place to live if you couldn't physically navigate at least a few flights of stairs at once between subway stations, split-level stores and restaurants, residential buildings, etc, etc. Just thinking anecdotally, myself and many of my neighbors in NYC are probably dealing with a dozen or more flights or stairs up and down on a daily basis (two flights down out of the apartment building, half a flight up to the street level from the sunken entrance, another 2 flights back down into the subway station, 2 flights up on the other end of the train ride, a flight in the grocery store, two flights at the gym, etc, etc, etc). Escalators are often present, but many people walk up those anyways. I'd feel comfortable saying people living here are generally in far, far better stair-climbing-shape than most of the country.
volkl48 8y ago
I've lived in one before. It is definitely a significant inconvenience. Some examples: - I biked to work. Carrying my bike up 5 stories of narrow stairs, bumping into everything, every evening was not a fun way to end my day. - Moving any heavy/bulky object will make even paid movers cry. - It makes coming and going feel like a sizable task. That said, I still preferred it over a lower floor, because it meant no noise from above and less street noise.
jimmaswell 8y ago
> most people, including myself, take the stairs when we move between floors for meeting, cafeteria, etc. How common is this? I never see people take the stairs when there's an elevator. I always take the elevator even if it's just one floor and I have to wait a while.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Lots of people do it for the steps. I take the stairs pretty much anytime I know where they are. I guess I'd think about it for more than a few stories.
- WalterBright 8y ago
  I never take the elevator for one floor, unless I'm with people who'd moan if we took the stairs. The stairs are much quicker, and I'm impatient.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Maybe it's a default cultural thing at your company. Possibly taking the steps is a "nudge" to suggest. Taking an elevator for one floor would seem almost weird where I work unless there were some physical issue.
- tspike 8y ago
  This is by far the easiest way to build some exercise into your daily routine. I have a hard time grasping why people stand on escalators, as well.
  - _ph_ 8y ago
    The problem with escalators is, that the steps are usually higher than those of stairs, as they are not optimized for walking. If you are very tall, this makes little difference, but for not so tall people, using the steps of an escalator is a bit uncomfortable. As a consequence, I usually step them only on very short escalators or when I am in quite of a hurry.
- cafard 8y ago
  In the early 1980s, I would routinely walk up the escalators, including stopped ones, on the deepest Washington Metro stations. In the 2010s, I take the elevator two floors. I walk several miles per day, I run varying distances each weekend, but something in one knee doesn't like stairs these days.
Naga 8y ago
I'd say that the difference between lots of stairs and and no stairs is enough to cause a difference in price for rent. I'd say that this is the market working as intended. Or, if you believe that it is not a big deal, you can abuse the market inefficiency ;)
Someone 8y ago
The stairs in your office likely are a lot less steep than the ones in those apartment buildings. Also, if you had heating, somebody had to lug up coal, and parents (about everybody was one, at the time, and the mothers were pregnant quite often) would have to lug up small children. And it isn’t “5 flights of stairs a day”. Chances are the toilet was at least one stair away, too.
_ph_ 8y ago
There is a huge difference between walking several flights of stairs over the day and having to walk 5 flights of stairs in a stretch every time you want to go up to your appartment. I live on the 3rd floor, and I am very happy that I have an elevator. I try to use the stairs as often as possible. But some time back the elevator was down for 5 weeks and I for sure started planning each trip out of my appartment. This all depends of course on the overall state of your fitness, and how heavy you are. Ideally, one never would use an elevator and hence be very fit and less overweight. And this doesn't count in any kind of medical condition which limit or even prohibit you from taking many (or any) stairs. For all the practical benefits both elevators and cars have brought to the modern human, they certainly have a big drawback on the average fitness. I try to use stairs as much as possible, and on an average day I certainly klimb 12 flights, but would no longer consider an appartment in the 3rd floor without an elevator for when it is needed.

JackFr 8y ago

Also your water pressure sucks.

chimeracoder 8y ago
> Also your water pressure sucks. That isn't my experience with the top floors of NYC prewar walkups today (and trust me, I've had a lot of that!), but I could see that being an issue in other places or in previous times. I don't think that'd have been a driving factor in ancient Rome, though, given how different their uses of their plumbing technology were from ours. They had public toilets and baths (at ground level), so water pressure for washing and bathing wouldn't be a concern for top-floor apartments the way it would be for us today.

pradn 8y ago

On the other hand, you get a good amount of light.

Scoundreller 8y ago

At least the heating is free the other 6 months of the year.