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Drivers and pedestrians are angry because some bikers want to be treated as cars AND ALSO sometimes pedestrians. Drivers don't want to kill anyone, and pedestr

Drivers and pedestrians are angry because some bikers want to be treated as cars AND ALSO sometimes pedestrians. Drivers don't want to kill anyone, and pedestrians don't want to be maimed.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
notatoad 8y ago
>Drivers don't want to kill anyone this is not universally true. in the rare case they do (i know a guy who was intentionally run down), and in the common case they just don't care, assuming that any cyclist-involved collision is the cyclists fault for being on the road. your attitude here - to immediately call out cyclists specifically, just because i dared to suggest that non-car, non-pedestrian traffic deserves a safe space to travel in - is exactly the problem. The roads are not the private domain of the automobile, and as long as people treat them like they are, some traffic will be forced to seek refuge on the sidewalk.
freehunter 8y ago
Well bikers are angry because they don't want to be treated as cars OR as pedestrians, but those are the only two classifications much of the US has. Many people on a bike are unable to even maintain 25mph for a slow city road, let alone 45mph or 55mph, so treating them like cars is ridiculous. But they do commonly go over 3mph, which is the speed of your average pedestrian. Bikers want to be treated like bikers. Unfortunately that classification doesn't really exist in the US so it becomes situational.
- u801e 8y ago
  Is a cyclist going 15 mph in a 25 mph zone much worse than a truck going 55 mph in a 65 mph zone?
  - jstanley 8y ago
    The difference is that trucks are slow and heavy, and bicycles are slow and light. People are afraid of crashing their car into a truck. A bicycle is just a little annoyance in the road that you squeeze past as quickly as possible. They're not at all comparable.
    - monkeywork 8y ago
      a 180# person and a 10# bike going 15 miles per hour slamming into a side of a car because they decided stop signs don't apply to them is more than a little annoyance. Bikes need to realize that YES they are smaller and lighter than trucks / cars but that doesn't mean they can't cause real damage and need to obey the same rules.
      - jakobegger 8y ago
        I'd like to buy one of those 10 pound bikes please!
        monkeywork 8y ago
        :) I purposely down scaled the weight so that someone couldn't claim i was trying to exaggerate things.
      - jstanley 8y ago
        Are you kidding? If a bicycle hits a car it might scratch the paint. If a bicycle hits a truck you'd be lucky if the truck driver notices. If the other vehicle hits the bicycle, the cyclist will be lucky to survive. I know some cyclists take liberties on the roads. I'm sometimes a cyclist myself and I too get annoyed by cyclists. But it's a fact of physics that cyclists are much more vulnerable than any car driver.
        monkeywork 8y ago
        tell that to my friend who had to get her insurance to cover body work to both the door and body panel of her car when a rider smashed in to her, got up and took off without having to have any responsibility for the damage. lucky if they notice ... lol fuck off. I'm not saying they are the same thing, or that cars are more vulnerable -- if you inferred that from my statement then you weren't reading, I simply stated that they can and do cause damage to property and people if they hit things.
swiley 8y ago
Yeah, it's kind of unreasonable to expect to get away with biking on a two lane highway with no shoulder, someone will get hurt doing that.
- freehunter 8y ago
  Why is it that "someone will get hurt doing that" is acceptable when discussing a bicycle on the road doing 20mph, but no one ever seems to accidentally run into farm implements or construction equipment traveling on the road at 5mph?
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Size and norms. Big, slow things are not the same as smaller slow things. Farming vehicles are purpose built and we have a long running understanding about farmers using roads. These new vehicles present new problems, and or people are still thinking about it all. We have not settled into any solid norms yet.
    - Phrodo_00 8y ago
      > new vehicles > bicycles
      - jessaustin 8y ago
        I thought perhaps the username was just really literal.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        Scooters, bikes, are "new" in the sense of traffic norms, unlike the tractor. They are going from marginal / casual use to daily use. Some regions are there. Many are not.
        Phrodo_00 8y ago
        > bikes, are "new" in the sense of traffic norms Bikes where there before paved roads existed. Cyclists where the reason we started building them in the same place.
screye 8y ago
Well, bikers aren't allowed to be either. And that is the big issue. I have tried biking in parts of US, and I genuinely fear for my life in some parts of the road. There is often literally no alternative but to go on the footpath and ensure I do not die. This is in a Boston suburbs, which still have relatively OK infrastructure to accommodate bikes. I believe it would be much worse elsewhere.
gascan 8y ago
How can a biker be treated exclusively as a car? E.g., what happens when the biker reaches a stop light that does not detect them? Only a pedestrian would use the walk sign. How can they be treated exclusively as a pedestrian? Sidewalks are not designed for any user faster than about 3 mph.

Drivers and pedestrians are angry because some bikers want to be treated as cars AND ALSO sometimes pedestrians. Drivers don't want to kill anyone, and pedestrians don't want to be maimed.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

notatoad 8y ago

>Drivers don't want to kill anyone this is not universally true. in the rare case they do (i know a guy who was intentionally run down), and in the common case they just don't care, assuming that any cyclist-involved collision is the cyclists fault for being on the road. your attitude here - to immediately call out cyclists specifically, just because i dared to suggest that non-car, non-pedestrian traffic deserves a safe space to travel in - is exactly the problem. The roads are not the private domain of the automobile, and as long as people treat them like they are, some traffic will be forced to seek refuge on the sidewalk.

freehunter 8y ago

Well bikers are angry because they don't want to be treated as cars OR as pedestrians, but those are the only two classifications much of the US has. Many people on a bike are unable to even maintain 25mph for a slow city road, let alone 45mph or 55mph, so treating them like cars is ridiculous. But they do commonly go over 3mph, which is the speed of your average pedestrian. Bikers want to be treated like bikers. Unfortunately that classification doesn't really exist in the US so it becomes situational.

u801e 8y ago
Is a cyclist going 15 mph in a 25 mph zone much worse than a truck going 55 mph in a 65 mph zone?
- jstanley 8y ago
  The difference is that trucks are slow and heavy, and bicycles are slow and light. People are afraid of crashing their car into a truck. A bicycle is just a little annoyance in the road that you squeeze past as quickly as possible. They're not at all comparable.
  - monkeywork 8y ago
    a 180# person and a 10# bike going 15 miles per hour slamming into a side of a car because they decided stop signs don't apply to them is more than a little annoyance. Bikes need to realize that YES they are smaller and lighter than trucks / cars but that doesn't mean they can't cause real damage and need to obey the same rules.
    - jakobegger 8y ago
      I'd like to buy one of those 10 pound bikes please!
      - monkeywork 8y ago
        :) I purposely down scaled the weight so that someone couldn't claim i was trying to exaggerate things.
    - jstanley 8y ago
      Are you kidding? If a bicycle hits a car it might scratch the paint. If a bicycle hits a truck you'd be lucky if the truck driver notices. If the other vehicle hits the bicycle, the cyclist will be lucky to survive. I know some cyclists take liberties on the roads. I'm sometimes a cyclist myself and I too get annoyed by cyclists. But it's a fact of physics that cyclists are much more vulnerable than any car driver.
      - monkeywork 8y ago
        tell that to my friend who had to get her insurance to cover body work to both the door and body panel of her car when a rider smashed in to her, got up and took off without having to have any responsibility for the damage. lucky if they notice ... lol fuck off. I'm not saying they are the same thing, or that cars are more vulnerable -- if you inferred that from my statement then you weren't reading, I simply stated that they can and do cause damage to property and people if they hit things.

swiley 8y ago

Yeah, it's kind of unreasonable to expect to get away with biking on a two lane highway with no shoulder, someone will get hurt doing that.

freehunter 8y ago
Why is it that "someone will get hurt doing that" is acceptable when discussing a bicycle on the road doing 20mph, but no one ever seems to accidentally run into farm implements or construction equipment traveling on the road at 5mph?
- ddingus 8y ago
  Size and norms. Big, slow things are not the same as smaller slow things. Farming vehicles are purpose built and we have a long running understanding about farmers using roads. These new vehicles present new problems, and or people are still thinking about it all. We have not settled into any solid norms yet.
  - Phrodo_00 8y ago
    > new vehicles > bicycles
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      I thought perhaps the username was just really literal.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      Scooters, bikes, are "new" in the sense of traffic norms, unlike the tractor. They are going from marginal / casual use to daily use. Some regions are there. Many are not.
      - Phrodo_00 8y ago
        > bikes, are "new" in the sense of traffic norms Bikes where there before paved roads existed. Cyclists where the reason we started building them in the same place.

screye 8y ago

Well, bikers aren't allowed to be either. And that is the big issue. I have tried biking in parts of US, and I genuinely fear for my life in some parts of the road. There is often literally no alternative but to go on the footpath and ensure I do not die. This is in a Boston suburbs, which still have relatively OK infrastructure to accommodate bikes. I believe it would be much worse elsewhere.

gascan 8y ago

How can a biker be treated exclusively as a car? E.g., what happens when the biker reaches a stop light that does not detect them? Only a pedestrian would use the walk sign. How can they be treated exclusively as a pedestrian? Sidewalks are not designed for any user faster than about 3 mph.