4 ms·

Nope, this will never catch on anywhere that experiences winter. You can't ride a two wheel vehicle on icy roads and it takes a ridiculous amount of clothing to

by jbob2000 8y ago

Nope, this will never catch on anywhere that experiences winter. You can't ride a two wheel vehicle on icy roads and it takes a ridiculous amount of clothing to keep warm. If I have to buy a car for winter to accommodate my scooter lifestyle, then I might as well just stick with the car.

mikestew 8y ago
You can't ride a two wheel vehicle on icy roads and it takes a ridiculous amount of clothing to keep warm. I'd estimate that when I lived in Indiana, I got the motorcycle out at least once a week in winter. Wait for the snowplows, let the cars dry things out, sorted. One of the more motorcycle-crazy towns I know is...wait for it...Minneapolis. So your hard-core nut jobs will ride regardless. But let's talk about real people with real levels of sanity. So their scooter business dips for three months out of the year. No way their business plan could have accounted for that. it takes a ridiculous amount of clothing to keep warm It takes an electric vest that pulls 50W. With a jacket on top, that keeps me warm to the 30s at 70mph. A speed-limited scooter could get by with much less. Being battery-powered, there are limits to what one could attach to these scooters, but even electric hand grips will take a surprising amount of chill off. And electrically-heated seats are not unheard of. But enough apologetics, let's get to the "so what?". Fine, these companies don't go where a flake of snow ever falls. That only leaves us with congested cities such as Houston, San Diego, Seattle, SF...
- jbob2000 8y ago
  > Wait for the snowplows, let the cars dry things out This could take 2+ days, how will I get to work on those days? > electrically heat everything on the scooter So I basically need a car that isn't a car at this point, ok! I'm not saying scooters aren't a viable business, they definitely are, and there are companies who make money selling scooters here in Canada. But they will never be more than a fun summer toy for the upper-middle class.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
josefresco 8y ago
$1200 for a (nice) scooter that you can drive maybe 9/12 months. $3500 for an (ok) car that you can drive 12/12 months. For those on a budget/single vehicle household the answer is clear. However as a second vehicle, or third it could make more sense.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  I'm not sure if the answer is clear, it's not to me. I'd guess you mean the car, but $1300 aint peanuts and IME (in the UK) it's things like the road tax (yearly fixed cost), upkeep and petrol that's going to matter in that assessment. I remember first filling up my scooter (a Piaggio Skipper, I got rid of over a decade ago): at the time my tank of fuel in previous car was £30, the scooter was £3.50. A little less range but it did 3 times the mileage and could do 65mph. We scooted for a couple of years, used public transport or hired cars when needed. Only had to ride in snow a few times though.
rhinoceraptor 8y ago
Fat (pedal) bikes with big enough tires can ride on most winter terrain. And the warm clothing is not much an issue when you're pedaling hard and not moving very fast, since snow can be tough to plow through. Most of the time you need to focus on keeping your hands warm, preventing sweating, and staying dry from slush. I bought a 29+ bike for winter riding, with my 3" tubeless tires inflated to 5-10 PSI, I have a ton of grip. I've pedaled up hills with ease, passing cars are spinning their tires. Granted, I have much better bike control than most people (if I do say so myself), but with a fat bike, riding in the winter is actually doable.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- s0rce 8y ago
  That is more effort and complexity than 99.9% of winter commuters will ever put into getting to work when they can drive or take transit. Not to say that it isn't fun/exciting but with bike lanes unplowed or worse plowed with extra snow from the car lanes and drivers who have no idea how to drive in snow it doesn't seem fun.
  - rhinoceraptor 8y ago
    Oh yeah, I definitely don’t think most people could or would want to do this. Also, I pretty much never ride in the road when there’s more than a dusting or ice on the ground. I can’t take the risk of falling and having a car not be able to stop in time.
analog31 8y ago
I live in Madison WI. Scooters are quite popular here. People adjust their habits around the seasons. I throw studded tires on my bike and ride through the winter. I have to own that clothing, or I can't go outside at all. And the lack of outdoor activity isn't limited to the hard winter states. When I lived in Texas, I was often the only person outdoors during the summer.
fulafel 8y ago
There is even a sport for it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_speedway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_speedway (The civilian winter tires have smaller studs of course)

mikestew 8y ago

You can't ride a two wheel vehicle on icy roads and it takes a ridiculous amount of clothing to keep warm. I'd estimate that when I lived in Indiana, I got the motorcycle out at least once a week in winter. Wait for the snowplows, let the cars dry things out, sorted. One of the more motorcycle-crazy towns I know is...wait for it...Minneapolis. So your hard-core nut jobs will ride regardless. But let's talk about real people with real levels of sanity. So their scooter business dips for three months out of the year. No way their business plan could have accounted for that. it takes a ridiculous amount of clothing to keep warm It takes an electric vest that pulls 50W. With a jacket on top, that keeps me warm to the 30s at 70mph. A speed-limited scooter could get by with much less. Being battery-powered, there are limits to what one could attach to these scooters, but even electric hand grips will take a surprising amount of chill off. And electrically-heated seats are not unheard of. But enough apologetics, let's get to the "so what?". Fine, these companies don't go where a flake of snow ever falls. That only leaves us with congested cities such as Houston, San Diego, Seattle, SF...

jbob2000 8y ago
> Wait for the snowplows, let the cars dry things out This could take 2+ days, how will I get to work on those days? > electrically heat everything on the scooter So I basically need a car that isn't a car at this point, ok! I'm not saying scooters aren't a viable business, they definitely are, and there are companies who make money selling scooters here in Canada. But they will never be more than a fun summer toy for the upper-middle class.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

josefresco 8y ago

$1200 for a (nice) scooter that you can drive maybe 9/12 months. $3500 for an (ok) car that you can drive 12/12 months. For those on a budget/single vehicle household the answer is clear. However as a second vehicle, or third it could make more sense.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
I'm not sure if the answer is clear, it's not to me. I'd guess you mean the car, but $1300 aint peanuts and IME (in the UK) it's things like the road tax (yearly fixed cost), upkeep and petrol that's going to matter in that assessment. I remember first filling up my scooter (a Piaggio Skipper, I got rid of over a decade ago): at the time my tank of fuel in previous car was £30, the scooter was £3.50. A little less range but it did 3 times the mileage and could do 65mph. We scooted for a couple of years, used public transport or hired cars when needed. Only had to ride in snow a few times though.

rhinoceraptor 8y ago

Fat (pedal) bikes with big enough tires can ride on most winter terrain. And the warm clothing is not much an issue when you're pedaling hard and not moving very fast, since snow can be tough to plow through. Most of the time you need to focus on keeping your hands warm, preventing sweating, and staying dry from slush. I bought a 29+ bike for winter riding, with my 3" tubeless tires inflated to 5-10 PSI, I have a ton of grip. I've pedaled up hills with ease, passing cars are spinning their tires. Granted, I have much better bike control than most people (if I do say so myself), but with a fat bike, riding in the winter is actually doable.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
s0rce 8y ago
That is more effort and complexity than 99.9% of winter commuters will ever put into getting to work when they can drive or take transit. Not to say that it isn't fun/exciting but with bike lanes unplowed or worse plowed with extra snow from the car lanes and drivers who have no idea how to drive in snow it doesn't seem fun.
- rhinoceraptor 8y ago
  Oh yeah, I definitely don’t think most people could or would want to do this. Also, I pretty much never ride in the road when there’s more than a dusting or ice on the ground. I can’t take the risk of falling and having a car not be able to stop in time.

analog31 8y ago

I live in Madison WI. Scooters are quite popular here. People adjust their habits around the seasons. I throw studded tires on my bike and ride through the winter. I have to own that clothing, or I can't go outside at all. And the lack of outdoor activity isn't limited to the hard winter states. When I lived in Texas, I was often the only person outdoors during the summer.

fulafel 8y ago

There is even a sport for it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_speedway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_speedway (The civilian winter tires have smaller studs of course)