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> I also see far too many boys whose gaming obsessions lead them to forgo interest in school, extracurricular activities, and anything else productive. Some of

> I also see far too many boys whose gaming obsessions lead them to forgo interest in school, extracurricular activities, and anything else productive. Some of these boys, as they reach their later teens, use their large bodies to terrorize parents who attempt to set gaming limits. A common thread running through many of these cases is parent guilt, as so many are certain they did something to put their kids on a destructive path. This was me. I was 14, my parents just divorced and I got hooked on Starcraft in 1999. I would play until the sun came up, go to school and sleep through class. I did it for 3 years straight, with varying levels of addiction. At some point, my mom wanted me to see a pyschologist but I tried to show her I wasn't addicted. I took the cd out of the computer, cut it up and glued it to a piece of paper. I hung that paper on the corkboard for all to see, then, not 5 days later I bought another cd and started the cycle again. I don't know if I was reeling with teenager angst or overloaded emotions because of the divorce but I needed help and my parents didn't know what to do. I nearly didn't finish high school because of it. Now, with a son of my own - I am constantly thinking about how in the world do I expose my son to technology but also teach him moderation. I don't want to have a fight about how much time is too much, I simply want the technology to be useful to solve a problem and not something my son feels compelled to use all day long.

castlecrasher2 8y ago
>Now, with a son of my own - I am constantly thinking about how in the world do I expose my son to technology but also teach him moderation. Same boat here, same-ish history as you. My theory is that having kids use technology is as essential as setting limits and discussing with them the lessons we've learned as adults. I largely gave up video games just a few weeks ago and understanding the effect of those thousands of hours if committed to better things like physical recreation, reading, programming, or something else has given me the perspective to handle it effectively (not getting angry or condescending) when my kids push back on going out or getting off the computer.
analyst74 8y ago
I've been addicted to games and now addicted to playing soccer, albeit less so probably due to being older with more responsibilities. And I see lots of similarities between the two very different kinds of games and the "addictions" to them. Even health-wise, it's hard to say if playing games all day is worse than getting tackled into hospital. I've met many people who were going for pro-sports when they were younger that destroyed their health and/or hurt their career prospects and had to re-invent themselves. How do we distinguish what is a healthy hobby/persuasion, and what is an addiction?
- umvi 8y ago
  > and now addicted to playing soccer Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NwHNHNXsg0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NwHNHNXsg0
  - analyst74 8y ago
    That's hilarious! And it is exactly how I feel sometimes about people ostracizing certain obsessions.
- simmanian 8y ago
  I've thought about this too, and came to the conclusion that being addicted to playing soccer is an order of magnitude healthier than being addicted to playing starcraft. First, there's the exercise aspect. Playing soccer during the day allows your hormones to be much more balanced and your mind healthier than being cooped up in your room through the night to play video games. Then there's the social aspect as well. Playing soccer allows you to have real, physical interactions with others and have a sense of community, whereas virtual interactions provide cheap knockoffs to temporarily meet your social needs. Yes, gaming has become more social than ever before, but the lifestyle and culture that form around gaming make it rather difficult to form lasting, meaningful relationships with people that don't just fade away after giving you dopamine rushes. I just don't think it's easy to have a healthy life when you're addicted to games. It's too easy to say "one more game" until the sun rises.
mattnewton 8y ago
I think the intense focus and obsession over something is only undesirable if it interferes with normal functioning; if you were sleeping regularly, your addiction probably would have been normal. If your addiction had instead been to hacking sites together with php, maybe you would be a multi-millionaire now. My parents taught me moderation and economics at the same time with computer time cards that were tradable for chores and other things they wanted to incentivize. Then when I got old and rich enough to just buy my own computer I understood the idea of a durable investment paying dividends :D
- amelius 8y ago
  > If your addiction had instead been to hacking sites together with php, maybe you would be a multi-millionaire now. That's me. Except for the multi-millionaire part :/
  - jonny_eh 8y ago
    You're hopefully at least employable.
- drb91 8y ago
  Ehh, I also was addicted to computing in ways that have paid off by allowing me to drop out of college and get an extremely lucrative job. I still regret the years of staring at a computer instead of socializing or garnering an interest in sports. It didn’t ruin my life, but its effect wasn’t straightforwardly positive either.
  - gascan 8y ago
    I'm with you, I can't complain with how my hobbies turned out- I've made a career of it- but I've been playing serious catch-up in fitness & health. I wish I had been exposed to the concept of mens sana in corpore sano earlier.
imgabe 8y ago
In my experience addiction is less about the thing you're addicted to, and more about some negative experience / emotions that you're using the addiction to escape.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  This. Addiction is a temporary escape from reality, and anything that offers such escape can become addictive: games, Netflix, drugs, training, hiking, social networks, books, etc.
- tomcam 8y ago
  You are correct-most clinicians agree with you. The usual measuring tool is, "does it affect your family, work, or romantic life negatively?" and GP does not show any such signs.
- foxyv 8y ago
  Too true. I really liked the experiments they did with rat park to argue against the skinner model of addiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
- fibbery 8y ago
  What about cigarettes?
  - imgabe 8y ago
    Escape from not looking really freakin' cool. Joking, but kind of not. Of course, there's a physical aspect that takes over. But most people start smoking as a teenager, to rebel against, you know, everything like teenagers do, because they're trying to figure themselves out. And the act of going out for a smoke gives you a pleasant little break from whatever you were doing before, which was probably not as much fun as smoking.
watwut 8y ago
Unsolicited advice: consistently enforced rules tend to minimize fights. Not to zero, but still. It does not really matter whether you limit gaming to an hour a day, only weekends, 10 hours a week, whatever except "never" and except "always". What matters is that you enforce them consistently so that kids learns them and can anticipate them and is not shocked that game is taken away right now.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  Agree. My kids are 7 & 9 and love Minecraft. 24 minutes per session, 2 sessions per weekend day is the limit and they abide it without complaint or anxiety. When we first set the limit, it was a holy war, I was the “worst dad ever”, etc. Now, it’s just the rules. (24 minutes was approximately “one TV show” and we do time it, but if they run a minute or two over, no one flips out...)
  - simmanian 8y ago
    The problem with this approach might be that it's not really teaching them to control their own urges. My parents used to limit my gaming to 2 hours a week, and I abided by that rule faithfully until I got old enough. Then I started playing games when they're not home. Then I got to college and became severely addicted to video games to escape my academic anxieties.
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      Agreed in part, but it’s a process. Still plenty of other ways we teach them to exercise their own judgment and self-control.
    - watwut 8y ago
      I knew people who had nearly no limits and had the same problem later on. I think that this one can be solved only by teaching kids to do positive/needed things. By that I mean not just limit gaming, but more of teaching importance doing chores, homework, sleep, socialization and other such things. So it is not "stop gaming so you stare at ceiling" but "I did not done homework damm have to can't game yet" sort of thing.
jedimastert 8y ago
>how in the world do I expose my son to technology but also teach him moderation I have a daughter that just turned one and the anxiety is already starting to set in for me.
r_smart 8y ago
Your worry seems misplaced. Addiction is usually co-incident with some other kind of pathology. In your case, it sounds like your home life was falling apart around you and coupled with a teenager's fairly normal apathy towards school, you just checked out completely, were probably depressed, and began using Starcraft as a coping mechanism. I went through a really rough break-up in my twenties and got addicted to World of Warcraft. I also started drinking a lot. Once my heart got better, both of those habits went back to normal levels. I still do both in moderation to this day. I guess maybe there are two lessons here: 1.)Treat the disease not the symptoms and 2.) Blizzard is evil.
- jackhack 8y ago
  >Your worry seems misplaced. I wish I could agree with you, but I cannot. Industries are hiring psychologists in order to increase the addiction of software (especially videogames) -- perfecting just the right amount of time before a reward is given, tuning the sounds to be "just so", etc. It's hard enough for an adult to resist, with years of defense mechanisms established, in places like Casinos or video games. But now that same degree of subterfuge is being employed for iPad games targeted at toddlers. What can an unprepared child do to resist? A: very little. It is parent vs. corporation, now, in a battle for the child's mind.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
> Now, with a son of my own - I am constantly thinking about how in the world do I expose my son to technology but also teach him moderation. Do you and your partner do anything other than use computers all day? I work with four 26" screens, and am fairly well glued to my phone when I'm not sitting in front of my work PC. But I also: run / walk / walk with my dogs; train my dogs; go to the gym; do pole dance / pole fitness classes; am learning to play guitar; am a metal fabricator by trade; ski; rock climb; play kayak polo; garden; cook; (slowly) renovating the house; read / research / write. I started rock climbing when I was 33, started pole classes when I was 34! I learned to ski last year when I was 36! Obviously I don't do all of these things all of the time. Perhaps there are things you can do with your kids other than sit at home staring at a screen? Also, I think perhaps maybe vlogging would be a cool thing to do with your kids. Public or not, maybe just to friends and family, but I reckon it'd be cool to help kids learn how to record and edit video.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  Oh, my. Are you sure you're not addicted to doing things?
  - photojosh 8y ago
    Could be, but that list doesn't seem too excessive to me. Normally addiction is defined as doing something to the point where it causes harm. What's being sacrificed to have the time to do all those things? If it's relationships, that's bad, if it is time that would otherwise be spent on watching TV or refreshing a social media feed, then it's good.
pm90 8y ago
I've always been addicted to gaming. When I was younger, my parents wisely chose not to purchase a PC, so I would usually play at friends/relatives' place. I assumed it was just how I was. Now that I am an OK adult with decent life: my playstation just lies there, and its really hard for me to start playing any new game. I figured that when I was younger, the video games provided an effective escape from the reality of being a child, with never having anything of consequence to contribute (I blame my parents for making me feel this way; even though they were perhaps just ignorant). Games had a structured environment, with rewards for specific actions, rewards that I did not find in my real life with doing anything. The fake medals/trophies were so much better than what I had in real life (which was nothing). It gave me a sense of belonging to a group, or to many groups, something which I did not in real life. Perhaps this applies only to kids without siblings. But video games were the one place where I could really be happy. When that changed and my real life became more amazing, I stopped playing them. Perhaps thats all that kids want. I should note that video games were not the only form of escapism, I enjoyed reading Harry Potter for that very reason too.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  > Games had a structured environment, with rewards for specific actions, rewards that I did not find in my real life with doing anything Which is something reality can't provide: short-term rewards disproportionate to the effort made.
- simonsarris 8y ago
  I think this is it for a lot of people. I played insane amounts of video games as a kid. Getting up at 5am before school just to play more Age of Empires. But once as an adult I had other stuff to do that fulfilled my need to build and accomplish things, I stopped playing more or less naturally, except the occasional social game with a far away friend. Kids have almost zero avenues to build or accomplish things. Their parents don't care or give them meaningful stuff to work on or tools to build stuff with. They might as well be under house arrest. They have no way of seeing their friends except in-game because they must get their parents to drive them everywhere. Even if they drove to their friends house, they have nothing to do with them except play games. We fail children everywhere by disallowing them from having meaningful stuff to do.

castlecrasher2 8y ago

>Now, with a son of my own - I am constantly thinking about how in the world do I expose my son to technology but also teach him moderation. Same boat here, same-ish history as you. My theory is that having kids use technology is as essential as setting limits and discussing with them the lessons we've learned as adults. I largely gave up video games just a few weeks ago and understanding the effect of those thousands of hours if committed to better things like physical recreation, reading, programming, or something else has given me the perspective to handle it effectively (not getting angry or condescending) when my kids push back on going out or getting off the computer.

analyst74 8y ago

I've been addicted to games and now addicted to playing soccer, albeit less so probably due to being older with more responsibilities. And I see lots of similarities between the two very different kinds of games and the "addictions" to them. Even health-wise, it's hard to say if playing games all day is worse than getting tackled into hospital. I've met many people who were going for pro-sports when they were younger that destroyed their health and/or hurt their career prospects and had to re-invent themselves. How do we distinguish what is a healthy hobby/persuasion, and what is an addiction?

umvi 8y ago
> and now addicted to playing soccer Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NwHNHNXsg0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NwHNHNXsg0
- analyst74 8y ago
  That's hilarious! And it is exactly how I feel sometimes about people ostracizing certain obsessions.
simmanian 8y ago
I've thought about this too, and came to the conclusion that being addicted to playing soccer is an order of magnitude healthier than being addicted to playing starcraft. First, there's the exercise aspect. Playing soccer during the day allows your hormones to be much more balanced and your mind healthier than being cooped up in your room through the night to play video games. Then there's the social aspect as well. Playing soccer allows you to have real, physical interactions with others and have a sense of community, whereas virtual interactions provide cheap knockoffs to temporarily meet your social needs. Yes, gaming has become more social than ever before, but the lifestyle and culture that form around gaming make it rather difficult to form lasting, meaningful relationships with people that don't just fade away after giving you dopamine rushes. I just don't think it's easy to have a healthy life when you're addicted to games. It's too easy to say "one more game" until the sun rises.

mattnewton 8y ago

I think the intense focus and obsession over something is only undesirable if it interferes with normal functioning; if you were sleeping regularly, your addiction probably would have been normal. If your addiction had instead been to hacking sites together with php, maybe you would be a multi-millionaire now. My parents taught me moderation and economics at the same time with computer time cards that were tradable for chores and other things they wanted to incentivize. Then when I got old and rich enough to just buy my own computer I understood the idea of a durable investment paying dividends :D

amelius 8y ago
> If your addiction had instead been to hacking sites together with php, maybe you would be a multi-millionaire now. That's me. Except for the multi-millionaire part :/
- jonny_eh 8y ago
  You're hopefully at least employable.
drb91 8y ago
Ehh, I also was addicted to computing in ways that have paid off by allowing me to drop out of college and get an extremely lucrative job. I still regret the years of staring at a computer instead of socializing or garnering an interest in sports. It didn’t ruin my life, but its effect wasn’t straightforwardly positive either.
- gascan 8y ago
  I'm with you, I can't complain with how my hobbies turned out- I've made a career of it- but I've been playing serious catch-up in fitness & health. I wish I had been exposed to the concept of mens sana in corpore sano earlier.

imgabe 8y ago

In my experience addiction is less about the thing you're addicted to, and more about some negative experience / emotions that you're using the addiction to escape.

ASalazarMX 8y ago
This. Addiction is a temporary escape from reality, and anything that offers such escape can become addictive: games, Netflix, drugs, training, hiking, social networks, books, etc.
tomcam 8y ago
You are correct-most clinicians agree with you. The usual measuring tool is, "does it affect your family, work, or romantic life negatively?" and GP does not show any such signs.
foxyv 8y ago
Too true. I really liked the experiments they did with rat park to argue against the skinner model of addiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
fibbery 8y ago
What about cigarettes?
- imgabe 8y ago
  Escape from not looking really freakin' cool. Joking, but kind of not. Of course, there's a physical aspect that takes over. But most people start smoking as a teenager, to rebel against, you know, everything like teenagers do, because they're trying to figure themselves out. And the act of going out for a smoke gives you a pleasant little break from whatever you were doing before, which was probably not as much fun as smoking.

watwut 8y ago

Unsolicited advice: consistently enforced rules tend to minimize fights. Not to zero, but still. It does not really matter whether you limit gaming to an hour a day, only weekends, 10 hours a week, whatever except "never" and except "always". What matters is that you enforce them consistently so that kids learns them and can anticipate them and is not shocked that game is taken away right now.

sokoloff 8y ago
Agree. My kids are 7 & 9 and love Minecraft. 24 minutes per session, 2 sessions per weekend day is the limit and they abide it without complaint or anxiety. When we first set the limit, it was a holy war, I was the “worst dad ever”, etc. Now, it’s just the rules. (24 minutes was approximately “one TV show” and we do time it, but if they run a minute or two over, no one flips out...)
- simmanian 8y ago
  The problem with this approach might be that it's not really teaching them to control their own urges. My parents used to limit my gaming to 2 hours a week, and I abided by that rule faithfully until I got old enough. Then I started playing games when they're not home. Then I got to college and became severely addicted to video games to escape my academic anxieties.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    Agreed in part, but it’s a process. Still plenty of other ways we teach them to exercise their own judgment and self-control.
  - watwut 8y ago
    I knew people who had nearly no limits and had the same problem later on. I think that this one can be solved only by teaching kids to do positive/needed things. By that I mean not just limit gaming, but more of teaching importance doing chores, homework, sleep, socialization and other such things. So it is not "stop gaming so you stare at ceiling" but "I did not done homework damm have to can't game yet" sort of thing.

jedimastert 8y ago

>how in the world do I expose my son to technology but also teach him moderation I have a daughter that just turned one and the anxiety is already starting to set in for me.

r_smart 8y ago

Your worry seems misplaced. Addiction is usually co-incident with some other kind of pathology. In your case, it sounds like your home life was falling apart around you and coupled with a teenager's fairly normal apathy towards school, you just checked out completely, were probably depressed, and began using Starcraft as a coping mechanism. I went through a really rough break-up in my twenties and got addicted to World of Warcraft. I also started drinking a lot. Once my heart got better, both of those habits went back to normal levels. I still do both in moderation to this day. I guess maybe there are two lessons here: 1.)Treat the disease not the symptoms and 2.) Blizzard is evil.

jackhack 8y ago
>Your worry seems misplaced. I wish I could agree with you, but I cannot. Industries are hiring psychologists in order to increase the addiction of software (especially videogames) -- perfecting just the right amount of time before a reward is given, tuning the sounds to be "just so", etc. It's hard enough for an adult to resist, with years of defense mechanisms established, in places like Casinos or video games. But now that same degree of subterfuge is being employed for iPad games targeted at toddlers. What can an unprepared child do to resist? A: very little. It is parent vs. corporation, now, in a battle for the child's mind.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

> Now, with a son of my own - I am constantly thinking about how in the world do I expose my son to technology but also teach him moderation. Do you and your partner do anything other than use computers all day? I work with four 26" screens, and am fairly well glued to my phone when I'm not sitting in front of my work PC. But I also: run / walk / walk with my dogs; train my dogs; go to the gym; do pole dance / pole fitness classes; am learning to play guitar; am a metal fabricator by trade; ski; rock climb; play kayak polo; garden; cook; (slowly) renovating the house; read / research / write. I started rock climbing when I was 33, started pole classes when I was 34! I learned to ski last year when I was 36! Obviously I don't do all of these things all of the time. Perhaps there are things you can do with your kids other than sit at home staring at a screen? Also, I think perhaps maybe vlogging would be a cool thing to do with your kids. Public or not, maybe just to friends and family, but I reckon it'd be cool to help kids learn how to record and edit video.

ASalazarMX 8y ago
Oh, my. Are you sure you're not addicted to doing things?
- photojosh 8y ago
  Could be, but that list doesn't seem too excessive to me. Normally addiction is defined as doing something to the point where it causes harm. What's being sacrificed to have the time to do all those things? If it's relationships, that's bad, if it is time that would otherwise be spent on watching TV or refreshing a social media feed, then it's good.

pm90 8y ago

I've always been addicted to gaming. When I was younger, my parents wisely chose not to purchase a PC, so I would usually play at friends/relatives' place. I assumed it was just how I was. Now that I am an OK adult with decent life: my playstation just lies there, and its really hard for me to start playing any new game. I figured that when I was younger, the video games provided an effective escape from the reality of being a child, with never having anything of consequence to contribute (I blame my parents for making me feel this way; even though they were perhaps just ignorant). Games had a structured environment, with rewards for specific actions, rewards that I did not find in my real life with doing anything. The fake medals/trophies were so much better than what I had in real life (which was nothing). It gave me a sense of belonging to a group, or to many groups, something which I did not in real life. Perhaps this applies only to kids without siblings. But video games were the one place where I could really be happy. When that changed and my real life became more amazing, I stopped playing them. Perhaps thats all that kids want. I should note that video games were not the only form of escapism, I enjoyed reading Harry Potter for that very reason too.

ASalazarMX 8y ago
> Games had a structured environment, with rewards for specific actions, rewards that I did not find in my real life with doing anything Which is something reality can't provide: short-term rewards disproportionate to the effort made.
simonsarris 8y ago
I think this is it for a lot of people. I played insane amounts of video games as a kid. Getting up at 5am before school just to play more Age of Empires. But once as an adult I had other stuff to do that fulfilled my need to build and accomplish things, I stopped playing more or less naturally, except the occasional social game with a far away friend. Kids have almost zero avenues to build or accomplish things. Their parents don't care or give them meaningful stuff to work on or tools to build stuff with. They might as well be under house arrest. They have no way of seeing their friends except in-game because they must get their parents to drive them everywhere. Even if they drove to their friends house, they have nothing to do with them except play games. We fail children everywhere by disallowing them from having meaningful stuff to do.