8 ms·
Remember when Microsoft used very basic telemetry in Windows 10 and everybody on HN lost their shit as if it's the privacy armageddon? Google: (very intraspare
by jevgeni 8y ago
Remember when Microsoft used very basic telemetry in Windows 10 and everybody on HN lost their shit as if it's the privacy armageddon?
Google: (very intrasparently tracks your location history, even when settings are off)
HN: Yeah, nah, it's chill dude. Can't be that bad.
- bitL 8y agoIt's different when a phone-level tracking suddenly appears on your desktop. No privacy-minded person was using Android before, but they used Windows. Now they don't.
- Brakenshire 8y agoOn the other hand, having access to phone data is exceptionally invasive. Location, accelerometer, contacts, call history, browsing history, all combined.
- amelius 8y agoDon't forget camera and mic.
- close04 8y agoThis just proves how little understanding and tech education most users have (still doesn't stop them from having strong opinions on this though). Android data collection which has been happening for close to a decade is orders of magnitude more intrusive than what Microsoft does with basic telemetry. Yet most people see MS as bad and embrace Google for being "ethical". A classic case of "guess what".
- nojvek 8y agoI don’t think people are seeing Google as “not evil”. Google most probably has a much larger reserve of everyone’s dirty laundry. Most android users just don’t realize how invasive the entire OS is and there is little they can do about it. It sucks thah Apple is the only tech company that gives a shit about privacy seriously. We definitely need more pro-privacy choice.
- fencepost 8y agoGoogle most probably has a much larger reserve of everyone’s dirty laundry. Like a record of every website you've gone to that uses JS served fast and free from Google, fonts served fast and free from Google, on-site search by Google (complete with a logo most likely served direct from Google), etc. And that ignores the most obvious: Google Analytics, where in addition to telling webmasters # of distinct visitors to the site, for each of those visitors they can track "Visited site X" for their own internal use.
- HillaryBriss 8y ago> most people see MS as bad and embrace Google for being "ethical". IDK if it's just me, but I've seen an above-average number of news stories in the last year about how Google is not a consumer-friendly, trustworthy company now. The general public is, I guess, becoming more and more aware of this perspective. We've certainly heard a lot about Facebook's privacy breaches and other problems. As a tech company, Google's reputation is probably hurt by that too. It seems to me that Google has probably entered a new public relations era. And it's pretty hard to go back to the old days where consumers believed in "Don't Be Evil."
- jchw 8y agoMicrosoft added a bunch of hooks to get your location and track offline searches without adding almost any usefulness. Privacy advocates definitely hate Google's location tracking, but Google made it into a feature with the location timeline. Does Microsoft even let me see what searches or locations I've shared with them?
- reaperducer 8y agoGoogle made it into a feature with the location timeline. Does Microsoft even let me see what searches or locations I've shared with them? The point of the article is that Google is storing your location outside of the Location Timeline, and labeling it in ways that don't plainly indicate that's what's going on.
- iokanuon 8y agoAdditionally, it has pretty much been a feature before, because tracking was used to implement the "live traffic" feature in Maps and create their WiFi AP to physical location database.
- golf1052 8y agoYeah, Microsoft created a dashboard last year that let's you view all the privacy info they have on you https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/10/microsoft-privacy-dashboard/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/10/microsoft-privacy-dashbo...
- jchw 8y agoOh, that's pretty cool. I want to try this when I get home. I think it would help me sleep easier with my Windows installs, though I don't know if any of them are logged into Microsoft accounts anymore.
- jimmy1 8y agoThe flip side, and I bet more people see it this way than you think: I see the value and fruits of the labor for the data collection Google does on me: Unlimited storage emails and photos, the absolute best mapping application on the market completely free, the best search engine on the market completely free, most of their developer APIs like google reverse geocoding completely free for modest traffic, realtime traffic updates completely free, office products completely free, etc. What did Microsoft give me? Locked down ecosystem, a subpar OS, expensive office products, and a paid-for vendor specific development ecosystem that is frequently becoming just a copier of the emergent industry trends, and a feigned attempt to embrace open source (capture market share) with cringeworthy bumperstickers displaying "Microsoft Hearts Open Source"
- mtgx 8y agoIt's not different at all. It's just that on mobile the "frog" has been sufficiently boiled before this happened. Didn't Google deny something like this very recently saying it was an "error" (Facebook's favorite excuse, too), though?
- bitL 8y ago"Judgement error" I guess. But with phones after destruction of privacy-minded Nokia there was basically no alternative, and they executed marketing flawlessly, having both geeks and normies desiring their phones, stuffed with tracking.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoLet's not also forget the pretty much forced upgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 10. That really registered; I even saw my non-tech family members notice how the system tries to trick them into upgrade; this really made people curious about the purpose of "telemetry" in the system ("they wouldn't be forcing us to upgrade if they weren't making money off spying on us").
- beenBoutIT 8y agoNo one chooses to use Windows, Windows is a disease. Parents spread it to their kids and schools force it upon their students.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoPeople choose Windows to get office work done. In a sense, this is forced by everyone else using Windows too, but this kind of "forcing" is common everywhere in life.
- beenBoutIT 8y agoA lot of kids get forced into Windows through their schools.
- jevgeni 8y agoI chose Windows as a development and creative machine. Visual Studio and .Net are great for what I do.
- fartcannon 8y agoOh, boo hoo, poor Microsoft. When Microsoft open sources Windows so we can hack out the bad shit like we can with Android, then you've got a point.
- jevgeni 8y agoIs there any bad shit in say Google Maps app or GMail?
- HillaryBriss 8y agoIDK exactly when it started, but at a certain point Google Maps and Locations services (or some other Google Play Services libs, not totally sure) on my phone started asking me to review a particular store or restaurant based on the fact that they knew I had visited that store or restaurant recently. Sometimes the request for a review would appear while I was in that place of business. I found it both annoying and disturbing.
- jevgeni 8y agoYeah, you are right. And these apps are proprietary. So there is no way to look at their source and make sure everything's good.
- datalist 8y agoWhat sort of argument is that supposed to be? jevgeni made an excellent point and actually articulated his concern. Open source has absolutely nothing to do with how Google is tracking users here, and not only are there major parts in the Android ecosystem which are not open source but even more importantly, the case at hand obviously shows that is irrelevant whether something might be open source or not. And that does not take into account that the vast majority of people do not run any version that has such features removed, as you hinted. If anything most users run versions which have additional stuff added (Samsung, etc.). Once all of that is not true anymore you might have got a point, until then it is jevgeni who hit it on the head.
- tjoff 8y agoI still think Windows 10 is several orders of magnitudes worse. Android is a toy OS. Very few does anything serious on it. A desktop OS on the other hand has access to the very most sensitive information you ever come across. If you can't trust your desktop OS everything is game over. Windows 10 telemetry is the most convincing reason to jump ship that has ever existed in my opinion. That said, android is of course also very bad. Problem is that there is no decent alternative to iOS and android. It is quite frustrating.
- cyphar 8y ago> Android is a toy OS. Aside from the fact that Google also owns a search engine you might've heard of (so it's not like they only make phone operating systems), I think this type of thinking is quite old-fashioned. People put most of their lives into their phones these days. They carry them everywhere, document their lives through photos, call and text their friends wherever they are, read the news, direct them to their destination, play games, etc. To pretend that most people's primary computing device is a "toy OS" is to pretend as though we are still in 2004. That's not the world we live in anymore. I don't personally own a smartphone anymore (precisely because of these sorts of privacy invasions), but I sure as hell wouldn't pretend that the majority of people don't use smartphones as their primary computing device. I agree that Windows is also absolutely immoral, but we shouldn't be debating which is worse here -- they're both reprehensible.
- vezycash 8y ago>most people's primary computing device Phones are most people's only computing device. Many who have never used a traditional computer own and use smartphones.
- TangoTrotFox 8y agoI think a comment like this should be made with a reference to a source as it defies belief.
- 8y ago
- 21 8y agoMicro$oft is evil man, don't you know that. Google is geeky, they bid sums like $3.14 bil in auctions, how cool is that. And they have awesomely nerdy and human April 1 jokes. They are with us man. You are being paranoid.
- datalist 8y agoOne can only hope that is sarcasm
- snerbles 8y agoIt reads like a Slashdot comment, 50/50 odds on whether it would be modded +5 Funny or +5 Insightful.
- pokemongoaway 8y agoAnd I've heard people say, "you think you can actually market that to engineers?" Yep... Maybe it was just the previous generation of engineers who weren't constantly distracted by shiny things.
- guessthejuice 8y agoEveryone? I remember a large contingent defending microsoft. Remember Saint Bill and his magical "charity" foundation that is curing all of the world's ills? Lately, there have been a vocal group defending corporate interests, globalism, monitoring/spying and censorship all over social media. Not sure why and where they came from but it's interesting how suddenly they appeared on the scene.
- acct1771 8y agoSkimming filenames in my filesystem etc isn't "very basic". Respectfully, fuck off.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jevgeni 8y agoDidn't know that. Could you provide a source? Everything that I read was about basic user behaviour.
- dang 8y agoPersonal attacks aren't allowed here regardless of how wrong you consider another comment. Please don't do this on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- bitmapbrother 8y agoWhat are you talking about? If you're a Windows user you're already in the privacy armageddon. And if the telemetry, which by the way can't be turned off, wasn't bad enough they're also operating a search engine and ad business that tracks people. And let's not forget that they also do a lot of business in China so they're also sharing their users data with the government. Microsoft has you covered with the anti-privacy trifecta. As for the Windows 10 telemetry, during a Windows 10 install these are all of the things that are turned on by default. Personalization 1. Personalize your speech, inkling input and typing by sending contacts and calendar details, along with other associated input data to Microsoft. 2. Send typing and input data to Microsoft to improve the recognition and suggestion platform. 3. Let apps use your advertising ID for experience across apps. 4. Let Skype (if installed) help you connect with friends in your address book and verify your mobile number. SMS and data charges may apply. Location 1. Turn on Find My Device and let Windows and apps request your location, including location history and send Microsoft and trusted partners location data to improve location services. Connectivity and error reporting 1. Automatically connect to suggested open hotspots. Not all networks are secure. 2. Automatically connect to networks shared by your contacts. 3. Automatically connect to hotspots temporarily to see if paid Wi-Fi services are available. 4. Send full error and diagnostic information to Microsoft. Browser, protection, and update 1. User SmartScreen online services to help protect against malicious content and downloads in sites loaded by Windows browsers and Store apps. 2. User page prediction to improve reading, speed up browsing, and make your overall experience better in Windows browsers. Your browsing data will be sent to Microsoft. 3. Get updates from and send update to others PCs on the Internet to speed up app and Windows update downloads.
- jevgeni 8y ago> ...they're also operating a search engine and ad business that tracks people Wait, are you talking about Microsoft or Google here? :p Most of your listed points don't relate to telemetry or are common practice with other OS vendors. I don't see why this warrants such an overreaction, when others get a pass.