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I predict we're going to see many more such incidents of labor "going postal" in the near and medium term. Doubly so if the economy contracts and goes into a re

I predict we're going to see many more such incidents of labor "going postal" in the near and medium term. Doubly so if the economy contracts and goes into a recession. Just look at the situation in NYC with ride-sharing and all the taxi driver suicides.

pravda 8y ago
>Just look at the situation in NYC with ride-sharing and all the taxi driver suicides. To clarify this, it is not 'taxi driver' suicides, it is suicides by medallion investors. Most drivers do not own medallions. http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/06/taxi_medallions_how_new_york_s_terrible_taxi_system_makes_fares_higher_and_drivers_poorer_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/06/taxi...
- danielrhodes 8y ago
  The medallion system reminds me of feudalism. It blows my mind that taxi drivers would defend this system and not flee to Uber/Lyft/etc.
  - mschuster91 8y ago
    > It blows my mind that taxi drivers would defend this system and not flee to Uber/Lyft/etc. For those who defend the system, often enough the medallions are their life saving / insurance when they get old, and almost always financed by loans. The medallions going worthless at the same time invalidates their retirement plans and STILL leaves them on the hook for the loan.
    - ethbro 8y ago
      This is something that's made me think a lot about the health care debate. Would it not be just that, if we're going to rewrite the economic rules in some areas, we give partial compensation towards those we just screwed over? Presumably we're changing the rules because of progress (e.g. Uber and Lyft showing on-demand rideshare has a market), which is good for everyone. But say the human lifespan is 85 years +/-. 25 years for education to post-secondary graduation (e.g. bachelor's degree in US). Probably another 2-5 years of accumulating working capital for your venture. So there's a set number of "shots" a person gets in their life. In this instance, what's wrong with saying "We're doing away with the medallion system. Existing medallions will be repurchased by the government at a price proportional to ownership time. Funding will be accomplished by a tax on rideshare companies, that decreases yearly, and ends 5 years from now"? Otherwise, I see the following sequence of events: (1) people get screwed by technological upheaval -> (2) people become resentful against technological progress -> (3) people vote in politicians / laws that retard technological progress, to the detriment of all
      - claydavisss 8y ago
        No no no. People who overpaid for medallions gambled and lost. It is not my problem to subsidize. Why not also subsidize traders who lose on a stock? If you want a society where people can't lose then you also get a society where no one wins.
        projectileboy 8y ago
        I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re wrong, but (at least in the US) we have a long history of taxpayer-subsidized bailouts for the very wealthy who take gambles and lose (e.g., 80s S&L crisis, but there are countless others). It’s an interesting and unfortunate cultural aspect of America that we really, really hate the poor, and seek to hold them accountable for their actions to a degree that we simply don’t do for the well-off.
        betteroffchuck 8y ago
        Poverty is the Lord's way of anointing the sinners for the righteous to cull. Ephesians 1:11 “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.” The parts of US culture I am familiar with blur the lines between godliness and wealth pretty far. It is a common belief that the poor are being justly punished for their sins, and that only good things happen to good people.
        sitkack 8y ago
        Because betterofchuck is not with us anymore, I have copied his comment, which I think is important for a myriad of reasons. Predominantly because _this is how america works_, we punish, we do not fix. ---- Poverty is the Lord's way of anointing the sinners for the righteous to cull. Ephesians 1:11 “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.” The parts of US culture I am familiar with blur the lines between godliness and wealth pretty far. It is a common belief that the poor are being justly punished for their sins, and that only good things happen to good people.
- ithinkinstereo 8y ago
  There are plenty of non-medallion drivers being squeezed by the recent Uber/Lyft boom. A poster above me highlights one example of a livery driver whose income fell precipitously after the ride-sharing floodgates opened. Even Uber/Lyft drivers themselves are being squeezed (which I guess is the whole point). Look at the conditions that many bay area ride-sharing drivers face... driving hours from their homes outside the bay to make barely above minimum wage (if that) driving 60-80-100 hours a week in the city. Meanwhile all the marketing from these companies paint a rosy picture of "being your own boss" and earning "side-hustle" money, when in reality most of these drivers are, like taxi drivers, poor immigrants killing themselves trying to make a living (and without all the benefits and protections of a "traditional" job). Nothing I'm saying is extreme or a stretch. If you live in a major urban area you can literally see it and experience it for yourself. I've made this same point across different threads and keep on getting down-voted, but as Sinclair once said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"
  - sitkack 8y ago
    "You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."

pravda 8y ago

>Just look at the situation in NYC with ride-sharing and all the taxi driver suicides. To clarify this, it is not 'taxi driver' suicides, it is suicides by medallion investors. Most drivers do not own medallions. http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/06/taxi_medallions_how_new_york_s_terrible_taxi_system_makes_fares_higher_and_drivers_poorer_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/06/taxi...

danielrhodes 8y ago
The medallion system reminds me of feudalism. It blows my mind that taxi drivers would defend this system and not flee to Uber/Lyft/etc.
- mschuster91 8y ago
  > It blows my mind that taxi drivers would defend this system and not flee to Uber/Lyft/etc. For those who defend the system, often enough the medallions are their life saving / insurance when they get old, and almost always financed by loans. The medallions going worthless at the same time invalidates their retirement plans and STILL leaves them on the hook for the loan.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    This is something that's made me think a lot about the health care debate. Would it not be just that, if we're going to rewrite the economic rules in some areas, we give partial compensation towards those we just screwed over? Presumably we're changing the rules because of progress (e.g. Uber and Lyft showing on-demand rideshare has a market), which is good for everyone. But say the human lifespan is 85 years +/-. 25 years for education to post-secondary graduation (e.g. bachelor's degree in US). Probably another 2-5 years of accumulating working capital for your venture. So there's a set number of "shots" a person gets in their life. In this instance, what's wrong with saying "We're doing away with the medallion system. Existing medallions will be repurchased by the government at a price proportional to ownership time. Funding will be accomplished by a tax on rideshare companies, that decreases yearly, and ends 5 years from now"? Otherwise, I see the following sequence of events: (1) people get screwed by technological upheaval -> (2) people become resentful against technological progress -> (3) people vote in politicians / laws that retard technological progress, to the detriment of all
    - claydavisss 8y ago
      No no no. People who overpaid for medallions gambled and lost. It is not my problem to subsidize. Why not also subsidize traders who lose on a stock? If you want a society where people can't lose then you also get a society where no one wins.
      - projectileboy 8y ago
        I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re wrong, but (at least in the US) we have a long history of taxpayer-subsidized bailouts for the very wealthy who take gambles and lose (e.g., 80s S&L crisis, but there are countless others). It’s an interesting and unfortunate cultural aspect of America that we really, really hate the poor, and seek to hold them accountable for their actions to a degree that we simply don’t do for the well-off.
        betteroffchuck 8y ago
        Poverty is the Lord's way of anointing the sinners for the righteous to cull. Ephesians 1:11 “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.” The parts of US culture I am familiar with blur the lines between godliness and wealth pretty far. It is a common belief that the poor are being justly punished for their sins, and that only good things happen to good people.
        sitkack 8y ago
        Because betterofchuck is not with us anymore, I have copied his comment, which I think is important for a myriad of reasons. Predominantly because _this is how america works_, we punish, we do not fix. ---- Poverty is the Lord's way of anointing the sinners for the righteous to cull. Ephesians 1:11 “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.” The parts of US culture I am familiar with blur the lines between godliness and wealth pretty far. It is a common belief that the poor are being justly punished for their sins, and that only good things happen to good people.
ithinkinstereo 8y ago
There are plenty of non-medallion drivers being squeezed by the recent Uber/Lyft boom. A poster above me highlights one example of a livery driver whose income fell precipitously after the ride-sharing floodgates opened. Even Uber/Lyft drivers themselves are being squeezed (which I guess is the whole point). Look at the conditions that many bay area ride-sharing drivers face... driving hours from their homes outside the bay to make barely above minimum wage (if that) driving 60-80-100 hours a week in the city. Meanwhile all the marketing from these companies paint a rosy picture of "being your own boss" and earning "side-hustle" money, when in reality most of these drivers are, like taxi drivers, poor immigrants killing themselves trying to make a living (and without all the benefits and protections of a "traditional" job). Nothing I'm saying is extreme or a stretch. If you live in a major urban area you can literally see it and experience it for yourself. I've made this same point across different threads and keep on getting down-voted, but as Sinclair once said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"
- sitkack 8y ago
  "You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."