6 ms·

The kicker is in the couching - dropping support for "uncommon filesystems" - of which their definition includes the default filesystem used by the most popular

The kicker is in the couching - dropping support for "uncommon filesystems" - of which their definition includes the default filesystem used by the most popular distro. Just dumb or wilfully ignorant?

wlesieutre 8y ago
I'd bet that by Dropbox's user metrics "the most popular distro" still qualifies as "uncommon" for a Dropbox client. Despite being the year of desktop Linux, non-server Linux boxes are comparatively rare. That said, Ext4 is still supported, just not with encryption.
- masklinn 8y ago
  According to shittyadmin, it's not even encryption it's encryption with ecryptfs.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- djsumdog 8y ago
  No stacked encryption on top of ext4. LUKS+ext4 should still work (since it's visible to Dropbox as just ext4 with cryptsetup/LUKS handling the underling container).
- JoshMnem 8y ago
  > Ext4 is still supported, just not with encryption. It's a terrible idea to not turn on hard drive encryption. Anyone who gets their hands on the machine can read and write to the drive by booting it with a thumb drive.
jimmy1 8y ago
Maybe they mean uncommon amongst their userbase.
xigma 8y ago
Honest question, what do you believe is "the most popular distro"? Professionally, I have never seen a BTRFS deployment, nor any of the distros commonly at the top of Distrowatch (Manjaro, Mint, Elementary...). With the fragmentation of Linux, even the "most popular" distro may hold a tiny market share. The guys at dropbox probably know far more about their users than what is reflected in some arbitrary popularity contest, so I doubt it's either ignorance or stupidity that led them to this decision.
- sp332 8y ago
  Ubuntu uses ext4 and the default is to ecryptfs the user's homedir. Edit: Actually I can't find that it was ever the default, but it was a pretty prominent option so I assume this decision is going to mess with a ton of customers.
  - jhasse 8y ago
    Encryption is opt-in, not the default.
    - bandrami 8y ago
      It's not even opt-in on Bionic anymore (at least, that checkbox is gone from the installer where you enter your user info)
    - perlgeek 8y ago
      I'm pretty sure home-dir encryption was the default with Ubutunu 15.04. I know that I installed Ubuntu with default settings, and was pleasantly surprised by that. Not sure about the exact version though.
      - StavrosK 8y ago
        I don't think it was the default. There was an "encrypt my home dir" checkbox which was unchecked by default.
  - arghwhat 8y ago
rogerbinns 8y ago
What I am confused by is what they think will happen to revenue. Step 1: "You can now use dropbox in fewer scenarios than before" Step 2: ??? Step 3: More customers paying more money Dropbox is paid for and used in various places I work and personally because of the Linux support. (Their competitors ignore Linux for some reason.) In my case step 2 is going to be them losing at least $1,000 in annual revenue. And they won't have that the next year either (ie recurring revenue). Nor will they be part of future options for work or personal.
- brazzy 8y ago
  Step 2: use the 20% developer manpower required to support filesystems used by 2% of the userbase to instead better support the other 98%.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    Step 3: $13b company cries over $1000/yr loss of revenue.
    - nitrogen 8y ago
      This type of snarky dismissal gets pretty old.
      - godzillabrennus 8y ago
        Not as old as someone publishing a blog with the title "This is the year of Desktop Linux". Seriously. No company this large can justify supporting a fringe operating system to their investors and shareholders. In a perfect world they would open source what they did to support it so others could pick up the work and integrate it into other products. Oh well.
        rogerbinns 8y ago
        Of course my example is essentially irrelevant in isolation. But you do should understand that Dropbox is different than their competitors. Dropbox are the only ones who support Linux. Google Drive, Box, OneDrive etc do not support Linux (random partial featured third party clients do not count.) In places (eg tech) where there is a Linux user base (eg the developers, devops etc) then Dropbox was the main realistic solution for the whole company. It is now just a random entry in that list, and there is no compelling reason to chose them over the others. Heck Google and Microsoft become the top choices simply because that is where the user accounts, email, calendars and then docs end up. We don't know just how big this "Linux" group is and it certainly is small (your point). I believe the resulting effect will be larger than Dropbox expected. For example the Windows users I collaborate with do so using Dropbox because I use that for Linux. Dropbox might think they are losing me as one user, but they are also going to lose those Windows users too (they find OneDrive far more convenient as it is already there on Windows and in your Microsoft account). I'd also argue that in aggregate Linux users are more technical and more likely to be influencers. So again that is more future revenue dropbox won't get, unless they get better than their competitors. Recurring revenue is hurt and helped much in the same way as compound interest works. As you add up the missed revenue over the years, it does get to be a big number. And that money likely went to someone else strengthening them. Remember that Dropbox grew essentially by word of mouth. They are going to lose some of that. The open source approach would be nice, but I am skeptical. Why would a developer spend their time helping dropbox (the server side won't be open source), and not something completely open? The Linux clients done as 3rd party projects for their competitors seem to be far less complete and reliable compared to the vendor implementation. TLDR: Dropbox did have a unique selling point in their Linux support. Without it they are indistinguishable from their competitors.
snuxoll 8y ago
Let's not forget Fedora or EL users, XFS has been the default for some time now in both.
- cmurf 8y ago
  Only Fedora Server. Fedora Workstation, Cloud, Atomic, and all the spins, are using ext4 on LVM.
  - Conan_Kudo 8y ago
    However, Fedora Workstation is strongly considering moving to XFS, as are several of the other editions.
superzadeh 8y ago
compare that with all their Windows and OSX user base, I guess it is less common filesystems.
floatingatoll 8y ago
Your two choices unnecessarily rule out a third: that Dropbox client phones home what filesystem is in use, and so they have concrete data backing their assertion.
staticassertion 8y ago
> the default filesystem used by the most popular distro. Ubuntu doesn't use ecryptfs (or even support it afaik) by default.
pmorici 8y ago
I was under the impression that xfs was the default file system on recent versions of Redhat / Centos that's got to be a large share of the corporate Linux market.

wlesieutre 8y ago

I'd bet that by Dropbox's user metrics "the most popular distro" still qualifies as "uncommon" for a Dropbox client. Despite being the year of desktop Linux, non-server Linux boxes are comparatively rare. That said, Ext4 is still supported, just not with encryption.

masklinn 8y ago
According to shittyadmin, it's not even encryption it's encryption with ecryptfs.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
djsumdog 8y ago
No stacked encryption on top of ext4. LUKS+ext4 should still work (since it's visible to Dropbox as just ext4 with cryptsetup/LUKS handling the underling container).
JoshMnem 8y ago
> Ext4 is still supported, just not with encryption. It's a terrible idea to not turn on hard drive encryption. Anyone who gets their hands on the machine can read and write to the drive by booting it with a thumb drive.

jimmy1 8y ago

Maybe they mean uncommon amongst their userbase.

xigma 8y ago

Honest question, what do you believe is "the most popular distro"? Professionally, I have never seen a BTRFS deployment, nor any of the distros commonly at the top of Distrowatch (Manjaro, Mint, Elementary...). With the fragmentation of Linux, even the "most popular" distro may hold a tiny market share. The guys at dropbox probably know far more about their users than what is reflected in some arbitrary popularity contest, so I doubt it's either ignorance or stupidity that led them to this decision.

sp332 8y ago
Ubuntu uses ext4 and the default is to ecryptfs the user's homedir. Edit: Actually I can't find that it was ever the default, but it was a pretty prominent option so I assume this decision is going to mess with a ton of customers.
- jhasse 8y ago
  Encryption is opt-in, not the default.
  - bandrami 8y ago
    It's not even opt-in on Bionic anymore (at least, that checkbox is gone from the installer where you enter your user info)
  - perlgeek 8y ago
    I'm pretty sure home-dir encryption was the default with Ubutunu 15.04. I know that I installed Ubuntu with default settings, and was pleasantly surprised by that. Not sure about the exact version though.
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      I don't think it was the default. There was an "encrypt my home dir" checkbox which was unchecked by default.
- arghwhat 8y ago

rogerbinns 8y ago

What I am confused by is what they think will happen to revenue. Step 1: "You can now use dropbox in fewer scenarios than before" Step 2: ??? Step 3: More customers paying more money Dropbox is paid for and used in various places I work and personally because of the Linux support. (Their competitors ignore Linux for some reason.) In my case step 2 is going to be them losing at least $1,000 in annual revenue. And they won't have that the next year either (ie recurring revenue). Nor will they be part of future options for work or personal.

brazzy 8y ago
Step 2: use the 20% developer manpower required to support filesystems used by 2% of the userbase to instead better support the other 98%.
- freehunter 8y ago
  Step 3: $13b company cries over $1000/yr loss of revenue.
  - nitrogen 8y ago
    This type of snarky dismissal gets pretty old.
    - godzillabrennus 8y ago
      Not as old as someone publishing a blog with the title "This is the year of Desktop Linux". Seriously. No company this large can justify supporting a fringe operating system to their investors and shareholders. In a perfect world they would open source what they did to support it so others could pick up the work and integrate it into other products. Oh well.
      - rogerbinns 8y ago
        Of course my example is essentially irrelevant in isolation. But you do should understand that Dropbox is different than their competitors. Dropbox are the only ones who support Linux. Google Drive, Box, OneDrive etc do not support Linux (random partial featured third party clients do not count.) In places (eg tech) where there is a Linux user base (eg the developers, devops etc) then Dropbox was the main realistic solution for the whole company. It is now just a random entry in that list, and there is no compelling reason to chose them over the others. Heck Google and Microsoft become the top choices simply because that is where the user accounts, email, calendars and then docs end up. We don't know just how big this "Linux" group is and it certainly is small (your point). I believe the resulting effect will be larger than Dropbox expected. For example the Windows users I collaborate with do so using Dropbox because I use that for Linux. Dropbox might think they are losing me as one user, but they are also going to lose those Windows users too (they find OneDrive far more convenient as it is already there on Windows and in your Microsoft account). I'd also argue that in aggregate Linux users are more technical and more likely to be influencers. So again that is more future revenue dropbox won't get, unless they get better than their competitors. Recurring revenue is hurt and helped much in the same way as compound interest works. As you add up the missed revenue over the years, it does get to be a big number. And that money likely went to someone else strengthening them. Remember that Dropbox grew essentially by word of mouth. They are going to lose some of that. The open source approach would be nice, but I am skeptical. Why would a developer spend their time helping dropbox (the server side won't be open source), and not something completely open? The Linux clients done as 3rd party projects for their competitors seem to be far less complete and reliable compared to the vendor implementation. TLDR: Dropbox did have a unique selling point in their Linux support. Without it they are indistinguishable from their competitors.

snuxoll 8y ago

Let's not forget Fedora or EL users, XFS has been the default for some time now in both.

cmurf 8y ago
Only Fedora Server. Fedora Workstation, Cloud, Atomic, and all the spins, are using ext4 on LVM.
- Conan_Kudo 8y ago
  However, Fedora Workstation is strongly considering moving to XFS, as are several of the other editions.

superzadeh 8y ago

compare that with all their Windows and OSX user base, I guess it is less common filesystems.

floatingatoll 8y ago

Your two choices unnecessarily rule out a third: that Dropbox client phones home what filesystem is in use, and so they have concrete data backing their assertion.

staticassertion 8y ago

> the default filesystem used by the most popular distro. Ubuntu doesn't use ecryptfs (or even support it afaik) by default.

pmorici 8y ago

I was under the impression that xfs was the default file system on recent versions of Redhat / Centos that's got to be a large share of the corporate Linux market.