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> The people watching those videos are already true believers No they're not. The YouTube algorithm (for example) encourages people to slowly ramp up how extre

> The people watching those videos are already true believers No they're not. The YouTube algorithm (for example) encourages people to slowly ramp up how extreme the content they view is little by little. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/youtube-extremism-and-the-long-tail/555350/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/youtube... > but every little thing that chips away at the lies they've been told helps. You're assuming they even see this content. The way "the algorithm" works makes it increasingly unlikely that platforms will even show you things that oppose your view. And if they do... the backfire effect means they'll often reject your opposing view even harder. https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/ https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

autoexec 8y ago
It is true that the algorithm does work against them, but it isn't a perfect bubble. I'm sure every racist on youtube had that same casting an obsidian sword video recommended to them I've been seeing. I spent a couple months looking into the alt right a couple years ago and I saw it for myself. The algorithm is just going by what gets the clicks so when a major topic comes along it's not too uncommon to see different sides pop up as long as they are on the same subject. The backfire effect is real, but it's obviously not impossible for a person to change their views on something. Even something somewhat fundamental. It can take a long time for a person to come around and they need to come to terms with the truth on their own but it can be overcome. Even the things they don't accept today will be in the back of their mind when they come across something similar in the future. It's not easy to make that kind of change, but people do it all the time.
api 8y ago
I don't think you could show me enough inane neo-Nazi videos to make me a Nazi. Insane, ready to gouge my eyes out with an egg beater... maybe... but conversion is not likely.
- jackvalentine 8y ago
  This seems to be a common enough retort in this thread, but it's really just a single person's opinion about themselves that doesn't mean much. You think you're not susceptible, good for you! The topic of radicalising people via mainstream social media to become nazis or fight for ISIS or whatever gross extremism they're susceptible to has been around for years now and it's pretty much settled that yes, you can radicalise people via these channels.
  - api 8y ago
    The question not being asked is: what makes people susceptible to radicalization? I think it's telling that America's potential for radicalization might be comparable to that of a former war zone like Iraq. We are not a healthy society. De-platforming will not make us a healthier one.
    - jackvalentine 8y ago
      > I think it's telling that America's potential for radicalization might be comparable to that of a former war zone like Iraq. I was actually referring to the many British & Australian citizens that were radicalized and traveled to Syria to fight for ISIS. Removing the ability to broadcast these vile ideologies in to mainstream channels will certainly reduce the incidence of those susceptible to radicalization discovering them and being converted.
      - api 8y ago
        Same question applies I think. My post was US-centric but the same issues exist to varying degrees across the developed Western world. Check out the unemployment rates in parts of Europe. My overall point is that we should be looking inward if vast numbers of people are being radicalized. It means our culture is simply not compelling enough to overcome the allure of these cults.
        jackvalentine 8y ago
        > My overall point is that we should be looking inward if vast numbers of people are being radicalized. It means our culture is simply not compelling enough to overcome the allure of these cults. Oh I very much agree with you - there has been a fundamental change in as little as one generation as to what 'life' is for men, with traditional roles thrown out the window. Combine this with difficult economic times for young men and it's a recipe for this kind of thing. For those who can't forge their own path they'll find someone that accepts them - sometimes good sometimes bad. Often these extremists offer belonging and self worth to those who have been unable to build it themselves.

autoexec 8y ago

It is true that the algorithm does work against them, but it isn't a perfect bubble. I'm sure every racist on youtube had that same casting an obsidian sword video recommended to them I've been seeing. I spent a couple months looking into the alt right a couple years ago and I saw it for myself. The algorithm is just going by what gets the clicks so when a major topic comes along it's not too uncommon to see different sides pop up as long as they are on the same subject. The backfire effect is real, but it's obviously not impossible for a person to change their views on something. Even something somewhat fundamental. It can take a long time for a person to come around and they need to come to terms with the truth on their own but it can be overcome. Even the things they don't accept today will be in the back of their mind when they come across something similar in the future. It's not easy to make that kind of change, but people do it all the time.

api 8y ago

I don't think you could show me enough inane neo-Nazi videos to make me a Nazi. Insane, ready to gouge my eyes out with an egg beater... maybe... but conversion is not likely.

jackvalentine 8y ago
This seems to be a common enough retort in this thread, but it's really just a single person's opinion about themselves that doesn't mean much. You think you're not susceptible, good for you! The topic of radicalising people via mainstream social media to become nazis or fight for ISIS or whatever gross extremism they're susceptible to has been around for years now and it's pretty much settled that yes, you can radicalise people via these channels.
- api 8y ago
  The question not being asked is: what makes people susceptible to radicalization? I think it's telling that America's potential for radicalization might be comparable to that of a former war zone like Iraq. We are not a healthy society. De-platforming will not make us a healthier one.
  - jackvalentine 8y ago
    > I think it's telling that America's potential for radicalization might be comparable to that of a former war zone like Iraq. I was actually referring to the many British & Australian citizens that were radicalized and traveled to Syria to fight for ISIS. Removing the ability to broadcast these vile ideologies in to mainstream channels will certainly reduce the incidence of those susceptible to radicalization discovering them and being converted.
    - api 8y ago
      Same question applies I think. My post was US-centric but the same issues exist to varying degrees across the developed Western world. Check out the unemployment rates in parts of Europe. My overall point is that we should be looking inward if vast numbers of people are being radicalized. It means our culture is simply not compelling enough to overcome the allure of these cults.
      - jackvalentine 8y ago
        > My overall point is that we should be looking inward if vast numbers of people are being radicalized. It means our culture is simply not compelling enough to overcome the allure of these cults. Oh I very much agree with you - there has been a fundamental change in as little as one generation as to what 'life' is for men, with traditional roles thrown out the window. Combine this with difficult economic times for young men and it's a recipe for this kind of thing. For those who can't forge their own path they'll find someone that accepts them - sometimes good sometimes bad. Often these extremists offer belonging and self worth to those who have been unable to build it themselves.