11 ms·

Thank HN: 7 months ago, I asked for help. Now I've got 5 employees.

620 points by needmoney 16y ago

7 months ago, I posted asking the community how I could most efficiently make 300-400 US dollars a month, my cost of living, online (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171520). You guys really poured out good ideas and several of you offered me work. Patio11 was among those: he offered to pay me 400 USD a month, every month, to make a custom Wordpress theme for him. I took him up on it. His offer really helped. The ability to hammer out a Wordpress theme and cover my living costs in a short period of time meant that I could hire out someone else to do the tasks that were taking all of my time to pay for my food and rent. With the new-found free time, I was able to focus on marketing and sales and grow the service I had been doing myself into a larger business. By the time the 2nd Wordpress theme was due, I had run overdue on its deadline because my tiny business had been covered by some major media and I was swamped with just keeping it up and running. Thankfully Patrick was understanding when I turned in the late 2nd project and told him I simply had no more time to design for him due to my personal business's growth. Fast-forward a few months. I now have 5 people working under me (3 full-time, 2 part-time) and my own office. Things are still hard, and I'm not rich, but I'm in a much better place than I was when I first posted. Thank you!

eof 16y ago
Awesome. What is your business?
- koepked 16y ago
  As I write this the above comment is 31 points! Please don't view this as a complaint, and to eof especially, I'm not saying the comment isn't worth that value. It just seems like an anomaly to me. Is it because everyone wants to know what the business is?
  - bullseye 16y ago
    >> Is it because everyone wants to know what the business is? Yes.
  - eof 16y ago
    7 points 18 minutes later. People really want to know! I imagine it will stop when/if it is answered.
    - ahizzle 16y ago
      Absolutely. Also seems a little strange to not give back to the community such basic information, after it's done so much for him. Maybe there's a competitive reason he's not divulging, or he's just too darn busy? ;) (I'd love to know, too)
      - bhjodokast 16y ago
        All your numberz are belong to us.
    - eof 16y ago
      it didn't completely stop but it was near a screeching halt
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- needmoney 16y ago
  Well, I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint you all and tell you I run a bakery. I know you guys were expecting a tech company. I wasn't actually planning on revealing this, but you guys seem to really want to know and the community has been good to me. And maybe you can give me more advice. I actually have a degree in CS and I love to code, but I tried for a while and never managed to make money on my own with my tech skills before Patrick. I figured (correctly, I think) that my problem was not with my hacking abilities but with my business skills - I had absolutely no good sense of what people would give me money for. In my mind, I saw myself stumbling around on a seemingly infinite plane while I was trying to follow a hill-climbing algorithm to maximize the amount of money I was making. So I imagined something like a random-restart approach might work: let's jump somewhere totally different and try climbing any hills we find there. Plus, I knew that people were willing to give money for baked goods, so I figured that simplified the business component to an extent. It turns out I was right - I did find a hill to climb and I've gotten a lot better at business in general. The dilemma now is I really enjoy coding and actually think I have the skills to run a softare business (which could ultimately be more lucrative), but have a growing food business on my hands. I'm certainly not complaining - really, anything that brings me more money to buy stuff like a dryer makes me happy - but sometimes I feel out of place. Now that I've hired a manager for the bakery, I have a bit more control of my time and I've recently been able to take on a bit of consulting work, which has turned out well, and I'm pumping the money into growing the bakery. I think that's the optimal strategy I can follow for now. What do you guys think? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my relatively twisted path.
  - NathanKP 16y ago
    Not exactly what I was expecting, but interesting nonetheless. Do you feel that the hacker business approach articles featured here helped your bakery succeed, or did they just give you impetus you needed to get started launching your own business? Just wondering. Edit: Why not build a web app for your bakery? Allow customers to order via the web. If you provide some sort of customization so that customers can request custom cakes and confections it could turn into an interesting internet aided brick and mortar business. Whatever you do don't downplay the value of having a business that makes real money selling real things.
aeden 16y ago
Good on ya for 1.) asking and 2.) executing. Most people don't even get to item 1.
- AlexMuir 16y ago
  and 3.) thanking others for their help.
nicholaides 16y ago
Hey, that's great news!
endtime 16y ago
Wow - amazing the impact a single extra man-month had on your business. Congrats!
tlack 16y ago
What a great story. You should put together a "five things I learned" mini post and let us all read it. And tell us more about your biz - do you sell through ThemeForest?
jacquesm 16y ago
It's very nice to see asking for help on HN have a tangible effect in peoples lives. Another thing I really like about this particular story is that it is not 'charity' but a helping you to make you stronger so you can help yourself (and apparently others!). Really neat. I wished there was more stuff like this on HN.
- cosgroveb 16y ago
  This place is becoming just like Reddit... In a great way! People helping people. And in a very Hacker News sort-of way, helping people get a business off the ground! He's the master of his own destiny now and that's awesome.
  - blantonl 16y ago
    This place is becoming just like Reddit.. That is a fascinating observation... because interestingly enough the business of Reddit and Hackernews is focused only on the community itself, and nothing else. It almost reminds me of the Zappos story and how they treat their employees. Make your employees #1 - and you will prosper. Make your community #1 - and you will prosper.
- kls 16y ago
  I agree this is an awesome story. It is nice to have a small community of people who help each other out. After some of the other tech focused user submitted news sites outgrew their roots, I wandered around for years not feeling compelled to join another community. HN is different, it is the reason I joined and this story highlights why.
johngalt 16y ago
Always great to hear another success story. Not only have you managed to help yourself, but those five people now have a better circumstance as well. Good job, keep it up.
david_shaw 16y ago
This is an inspirational story. Congrats, sounds like you're well on your way to exactly where you want to be!
laran 16y ago
So glad to hear a success story. Keep it up, and keep on building!
ww520 16y ago
That's awesome. Congratulation. Can you talk about your marketing and sales effort? It's always difficult for technical folks.
- needmoney 16y ago
  It really varies depending on your industry. Generally, being a social person (which does not come easily to me at all) is very helpful. If you have a lot of friends, it's very likely one of them will be able to help you market or sell in some way or another. I relied heavily on friends and friends of friends. I still do. More specifically, figuring out who are major journalists or trend-influencers (potential customers who can convince their friends to become customers) within your target market and then befriending them is very useful.
  - sleight42 16y ago
    Second that. Being an extrovert is good for business. I'd add to that: Do what you love. Be passionate about your work. Share that passion freely with anyone who will listen. If you're an engineer, consider buying "Get Clients Now". The cover looks awful. However, it's a great recipe book for learning to market yourself.
  - melipone 16y ago
    You're only telling us general trivia. If you've done a wordpress theme, post a tutorial or a how-to.
    - needmoney 16y ago
      I run a bakery, so I found members of the media I wanted to get along with, got to know them, and gave them free samples of my products. Many of them are now customers and friends. I imagine a similar process would work for online-only businesses.
Revisor 16y ago
What did you learn in the process? What would you tell your older self?
- needmoney 16y ago
  I feel silly answering this because there are much more qualified people here to give advice, but I'll answer because you asked and because it's also useful for me to reflect. I hadn't really done it. In random order: Employees watch what you do very carefully. Their behavior is strongly influenced by yours. Having several conservative ways to make small amounts of money if necessary is good. Emotional stability is an important skill. The ability to dampen both optimism and anxiety is something that comes with experience, I think. Multiple backup plans help with the latter. It is relatively easy to siphon off pieces of business when the market is large. Profitable competition tells me that I can probably find buyers, so long as I can think of a twist. Being a generally friendly, helpful person, even to people who you think have nothing to offer you in return, is good for business. I'm a much friendlier person now than I was when I started. I've also found being friendly and helpful just makes me happy.
mynameisraj 16y ago
Great to hear! I'm also curious as to what your business is. Congrats on getting to a better place; hopefully you can go further and expand more!
EGreg 16y ago
These kinds of stories are definitely cool to hear :) Maybe you can tell us more about what you did right, and what your business does!
justlearning 16y ago
would you be willing to divulge details on your app/business and country you reside in? Does this income sustain your family? $300-400 usd seems very little to get by. At the time of your posting, it seemed like a "student" in need of the cash. It's pay back time - your experiences,lessons learnt will be appreciated.
- ynniv 16y ago
  $400 USD is quite prosperous in many parts of the world. Not in the US, or the wealthier nations.
  - raheemm 16y ago
    Really? Like where? Not being sarcastic but even in a cheap place like Bangladesh, you need atleast $700/month to have a decent hacker life (constant electricity, decent internet, own apt, a hacker-friendly environment - coffee, music, hobby, junk food, etc).
    - tectonic 16y ago
      Much of China, I believe.
    - petercooper 16y ago
      In many countries and cultures, "staying at home" till quite late is the norm (Italy, for example) with few or heavily shared expenses beyond personal possessions. Sometimes, the family home houses multiple generations and is merely passed down without everyone moving out. I'm married with a kid and own a home now, but back in the days when I lived with my parents, even paying them a modest rent and share of utilities I could have "lived" on $500 a month without causing them much/any expense. Just. :)
    - olalonde 16y ago
      400$ a month is doable in China but forget about nightlife or cockroach-free apartments. Disclaimer: I lived a few months in Shenzhen.
Jasitis 16y ago
how do i start doing this
- barnaby 16y ago
  Guys don't downvote somebody on their FIRST POST on HN. This guy may legitimately want to know how to do this, that's one hell of a good reason to be on HN. Jastis, to answer your question, you do it one step at a time, because if you try to do too many things (or too big of a thing) at once then nothing gets done. Bite off one small thing a day and you'll be amazed how much gets done in half a year.
  - barnaby 16y ago
    :-) yay, he's up to ten! I should point out that when I wrote this, the poor guys post was at negative 4.
  - Hexstream 16y ago
    Hum. Do you always check a user's profile before downvoting if you don't remember seeing him before? I can't imagine myself doing that. Or are you using some sort of plugin that gives you more info inline?
    - barnaby 16y ago
      I wish I had a tool like that. No I just had an intuition to check this time. I've probably been guilty of downvoting newbies myself without checking.
  - mleonhard 16y ago
    Get a personal wiki program like ZuluPad and start making lists of things you need to do to build your business. Break each thing into many small tasks so you can check them off and see the progress you're making. I've been working steadily on my startup since I left my job in April. My "DONE" list has 88 items. Last night I finished another task: adding proper logging to my web service. There are a lot more tasks on my "TO DO" list, but now there are none blocking me from launching the beta version of my service next week.
bmelton 16y ago
Congratulations -- but uhm... shouldn't you check back in with Patrick and make sure his needs are met? I mean, he's Customer #1, and it sounds like your reaction to that was to abandon him. I might be misreading, or Patrick may have backfilled you, but the 1 thing I know about business to be more true than most things, is you take care of your early customers, specifically if they were good to you.
- tptacek 16y ago
  Evolving relationships are a fact of life in consulting. Sometimes relationships grow, or even engulf the whole business, like Lucky Strike did for SCDP in Mad Men and Microsoft has done with a number of security consultancies. Other times, relationships become vestigial or vanish entirely. The entire point of consulting arrangements is to allow businesses to set the most flexible and reasonable terms to work under. If Patrick wanted a Wordpress theme factory forever, he could have made that a contract term. Somehow, I doubt he did. Matasano engaged Patrick. We may be one of his earliest clients! Somehow, I doubt he'll be as available for tactical one-off projects for much longer. That makes me happy.
  - patio11 16y ago
    Matasano was client #2, and I just wrapped up at #3 (y'all know them, but they have a blog post due in November so I'll let them announce it). Suffice it to say "You have ample reason to be happy."
- wwortiz 16y ago
  From Patrick: > I'd be able to give you one project a month for $400 until you either got sick of doing them or decided to move upmarket. [http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171663 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171663]
- needmoney 16y ago
  You're right. But Patrick indicated to me that he was happy for me and that he would understand if I couldn't go on. I'll be totally honest, I should've kept in better sync with him and I felt terrible that my 2nd project fell behind schedule, but I really found myself totally engulfed in putting out fires in my personal business. Nothing went according to plan. I didn't abandon his project though, I finished it and got it to him a little late. I was just looking at it again today and I saw some problems I hadn't noticed before, so I sent him a patch. It's really only now that I'm starting to get back a bit of time where I can do things like write this. I sent him an email telling him about this thread, but I'd bet he's asleep now.
messel 16y ago
I can't compete with surviving at $400 a month. That alone is amazing. The fact that you built a business is inspiring. Thanks for sharing your tale needmoney. As others have mentioned, we'd like to know what your business is. Is it web based? Are you manufacturing widgets? Share the details :D
- needmoney 16y ago
  I live in a developing country, share an apartment, and am relatively frugal. I do however spend money on things that save me significant amounts of time.
pacomerh 16y ago
Nice!, that's very inspiring, specially for the fact that you weren't afraid of asking for help. Lately I've been putting my pride aside and have been asking my friends, family and people I know about my services, and they don't necessarily give me work, but they link me to other people who need it. My whole point is that being open is really crucial, at first I didn't want to look as they friend who needed work really, but know I'm asking friends to help me with some projects (web production btw). It would be nice to read about your whole experience though. Thx
jseliger 16y ago
A quick question: do you have a site for your work? I ask because I've been using a pretty bogus, standard theme for my hosted Wordpress blog (http://blog.seliger.com http://blog.seliger.com) and could probably swing $400 for a real theme.
- messel 16y ago
  Business number 2 for needmoney, building the Theme Factory. I can't decide if I want to customize themes or hire a designer. I've tweaked my own theme a dozen times this year.
  - brc 16y ago
    My rule is : if you think you might need a designer, you need a designer. My life (and work) has been infinitely better since I let go and paid good money to good designers to do good work. Find one, build a relationship and trust and then trust their judgement.
    - jseliger 16y ago
      My rule is : if you think you might need a designer, you need a designer. That's basically my thought process.
kloncks 16y ago
I'd love to hear more details too, especially the name of the country you live in. One of the beautiful thing about the Internet is how it allows you to set up nice lifestyle businesses. If I have a successful application (I'm 20), I could easily travel around the world working wherever there is an Internet connection and just getting by nicely. At least for a few years!
vishaldpatel 16y ago
Hey man! Congrats!!! =)... Success stories are among the best type of stories :)
csomar 16y ago
My life has change (and also my little mind) thanks to Hacker News. I should say "I read enough, yet a lot", may be more than 500 pages (I already printed 200 or so). Not only my financial situation changed, but also the way I view the world. Just 400 days before now, $25 is my monthly money pocket that I get from my parents and it should cover all my expenses (except clothes, food and obviously housing). Now I have my own Internet subscription ($30 a month) and also I just purchased a VPS and a couple of SaaS service. I did bought my Nokia feature phone ($150) also myself and this little netbook I'm typing from ($400). That in 300 days or so, and by the end of this year, I'm planning on buying a Sony Z series, 23'' monitor and a smartphone. I have 3 years browsing and reading the Internet, but it's only in the last year that I started making money out of it (not browsing! the internet). This wouldn't be done without Hacker News. I should also mention that my English was revamped considerably and ... okay, lot of things actually. Thanks HN! You didn't give me money but you did teach me how to make it and also LIVE happy.
- illumin8 16y ago
  Don't spend all your money on toys... The few hundred dollars you've spent already, had you invested it in your business, or even put it into savings, could be worth tens of thousands or even millions a few decades from now.
  - csomar 16y ago
    That's something I learnt while working and it really helped me a lot (and will in my professional life). However, I don't have my own computer (shared one, except this netbook); so I need a better setup for my development. I try to prioritize the items I need. An external hard-drive comes first, because I should have a backup strategy. The monitor is more important, because I need better display... Certainly, I'll offer myself an Android as a gift and that also should serve and help me in business (read emails in the go, check statics, HN on mobile instead of computer...)
    - heresy 16y ago
      If you can learn the power of compound interest at your age, you're going to retire very comfortably.
AlexBlom 16y ago
Honestly, well done for getting out there and making something happen.
mhartl 16y ago
I took him up on it. This alone is a hugely valuable lesson. When you need help, and someone offers help, accept the help. (Of course, you had already learned the first lesson: When you need help, ask for help.)
ritonlajoie 16y ago
What a very refreshing story ! Thanks for sharing. I wan't on HN when this happened but I read all the 1171520 thread and spent almost 2 hours on different discussions that your thread is spawning, related to ebook sales, wordpress theming, etc.. I think the majority of HN readers are just like you : interested in what _we_, as 'hackers', can do. Related to 'change the world', or 'make money'. The thing is to combine both. You seem to be pretty well. Bravo and keep up the good work !
sleight42 16y ago
In all seriousness, good for you! And even better, you are probably similarly helping those 5 other people in your employ.
plainOldText 16y ago
Great story, but I hope people won't get inspired by this in the direction to start submitting their request for help for non-sense/non-relevant aspects to the HN Community.
mobl 16y ago
Hi there. Great story, I can get you some work too for themes and other stuff related to video games. jimmy@inodesoft.com Keep having a very bright and sucessful day! :-)
jackfoxy 16y ago
...and you're providing employment, the highest form of charity.
EGF 16y ago
This is really great to hear! The community here has really been great to me as well and the thoughtfulness and quality of answers is really remarkable. Awesome that the business is a bakery too!
matthewhelt 16y ago
its stories like this which have been very encouraging in my own venture. a comment on the cost of living in the united states, and how to do it cheaply. i live in oakland, california - in the heart of the san francisco bay area. my cost of living is incredibly low, my rent is $300, utilities are about $90 a month and that includes power and 1MB network connection. i ride a bike everywhere i go, don't own a car. i cook all my own food, i purchase organic produce for cheap at the local farmers market. my entire monthly living expenses are less than 500 dollars, in a location where i can get to financial district of san francisco in about 14 minutes. my business venture is based in my bedroom, my tech co-founder lives in mendocino county. we're currently in product development phase creating an analytical system for precision viticulture. we're getting ready to start our first adventures in funding. reading stories about people buckling down, focusing on their ventures, and achieving success has (for lack of a better term) inspired me. hacker news and the whole entrepreneurial community in the bay area have been key to informing my decisions.

620 points by needmoney 16y ago

eof 16y ago

Awesome. What is your business?

koepked 16y ago
As I write this the above comment is 31 points! Please don't view this as a complaint, and to eof especially, I'm not saying the comment isn't worth that value. It just seems like an anomaly to me. Is it because everyone wants to know what the business is?
- bullseye 16y ago
  >> Is it because everyone wants to know what the business is? Yes.
- eof 16y ago
  7 points 18 minutes later. People really want to know! I imagine it will stop when/if it is answered.
  - ahizzle 16y ago
    Absolutely. Also seems a little strange to not give back to the community such basic information, after it's done so much for him. Maybe there's a competitive reason he's not divulging, or he's just too darn busy? ;) (I'd love to know, too)
    - bhjodokast 16y ago
      All your numberz are belong to us.
  - eof 16y ago
    it didn't completely stop but it was near a screeching halt
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
needmoney 16y ago
Well, I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint you all and tell you I run a bakery. I know you guys were expecting a tech company. I wasn't actually planning on revealing this, but you guys seem to really want to know and the community has been good to me. And maybe you can give me more advice. I actually have a degree in CS and I love to code, but I tried for a while and never managed to make money on my own with my tech skills before Patrick. I figured (correctly, I think) that my problem was not with my hacking abilities but with my business skills - I had absolutely no good sense of what people would give me money for. In my mind, I saw myself stumbling around on a seemingly infinite plane while I was trying to follow a hill-climbing algorithm to maximize the amount of money I was making. So I imagined something like a random-restart approach might work: let's jump somewhere totally different and try climbing any hills we find there. Plus, I knew that people were willing to give money for baked goods, so I figured that simplified the business component to an extent. It turns out I was right - I did find a hill to climb and I've gotten a lot better at business in general. The dilemma now is I really enjoy coding and actually think I have the skills to run a softare business (which could ultimately be more lucrative), but have a growing food business on my hands. I'm certainly not complaining - really, anything that brings me more money to buy stuff like a dryer makes me happy - but sometimes I feel out of place. Now that I've hired a manager for the bakery, I have a bit more control of my time and I've recently been able to take on a bit of consulting work, which has turned out well, and I'm pumping the money into growing the bakery. I think that's the optimal strategy I can follow for now. What do you guys think? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my relatively twisted path.
- NathanKP 16y ago
  Not exactly what I was expecting, but interesting nonetheless. Do you feel that the hacker business approach articles featured here helped your bakery succeed, or did they just give you impetus you needed to get started launching your own business? Just wondering. Edit: Why not build a web app for your bakery? Allow customers to order via the web. If you provide some sort of customization so that customers can request custom cakes and confections it could turn into an interesting internet aided brick and mortar business. Whatever you do don't downplay the value of having a business that makes real money selling real things.

aeden 16y ago

Good on ya for 1.) asking and 2.) executing. Most people don't even get to item 1.

AlexMuir 16y ago
and 3.) thanking others for their help.

nicholaides 16y ago

Hey, that's great news!

endtime 16y ago

Wow - amazing the impact a single extra man-month had on your business. Congrats!

tlack 16y ago

What a great story. You should put together a "five things I learned" mini post and let us all read it. And tell us more about your biz - do you sell through ThemeForest?

jacquesm 16y ago

It's very nice to see asking for help on HN have a tangible effect in peoples lives. Another thing I really like about this particular story is that it is not 'charity' but a helping you to make you stronger so you can help yourself (and apparently others!). Really neat. I wished there was more stuff like this on HN.

cosgroveb 16y ago
This place is becoming just like Reddit... In a great way! People helping people. And in a very Hacker News sort-of way, helping people get a business off the ground! He's the master of his own destiny now and that's awesome.
- blantonl 16y ago
  This place is becoming just like Reddit.. That is a fascinating observation... because interestingly enough the business of Reddit and Hackernews is focused only on the community itself, and nothing else. It almost reminds me of the Zappos story and how they treat their employees. Make your employees #1 - and you will prosper. Make your community #1 - and you will prosper.
kls 16y ago
I agree this is an awesome story. It is nice to have a small community of people who help each other out. After some of the other tech focused user submitted news sites outgrew their roots, I wandered around for years not feeling compelled to join another community. HN is different, it is the reason I joined and this story highlights why.

johngalt 16y ago

Always great to hear another success story. Not only have you managed to help yourself, but those five people now have a better circumstance as well. Good job, keep it up.

david_shaw 16y ago

This is an inspirational story. Congrats, sounds like you're well on your way to exactly where you want to be!

laran 16y ago

So glad to hear a success story. Keep it up, and keep on building!

ww520 16y ago

That's awesome. Congratulation. Can you talk about your marketing and sales effort? It's always difficult for technical folks.

needmoney 16y ago
It really varies depending on your industry. Generally, being a social person (which does not come easily to me at all) is very helpful. If you have a lot of friends, it's very likely one of them will be able to help you market or sell in some way or another. I relied heavily on friends and friends of friends. I still do. More specifically, figuring out who are major journalists or trend-influencers (potential customers who can convince their friends to become customers) within your target market and then befriending them is very useful.
- sleight42 16y ago
  Second that. Being an extrovert is good for business. I'd add to that: Do what you love. Be passionate about your work. Share that passion freely with anyone who will listen. If you're an engineer, consider buying "Get Clients Now". The cover looks awful. However, it's a great recipe book for learning to market yourself.
- melipone 16y ago
  You're only telling us general trivia. If you've done a wordpress theme, post a tutorial or a how-to.
  - needmoney 16y ago
    I run a bakery, so I found members of the media I wanted to get along with, got to know them, and gave them free samples of my products. Many of them are now customers and friends. I imagine a similar process would work for online-only businesses.

Revisor 16y ago

What did you learn in the process? What would you tell your older self?

needmoney 16y ago
I feel silly answering this because there are much more qualified people here to give advice, but I'll answer because you asked and because it's also useful for me to reflect. I hadn't really done it. In random order: Employees watch what you do very carefully. Their behavior is strongly influenced by yours. Having several conservative ways to make small amounts of money if necessary is good. Emotional stability is an important skill. The ability to dampen both optimism and anxiety is something that comes with experience, I think. Multiple backup plans help with the latter. It is relatively easy to siphon off pieces of business when the market is large. Profitable competition tells me that I can probably find buyers, so long as I can think of a twist. Being a generally friendly, helpful person, even to people who you think have nothing to offer you in return, is good for business. I'm a much friendlier person now than I was when I started. I've also found being friendly and helpful just makes me happy.

mynameisraj 16y ago

Great to hear! I'm also curious as to what your business is. Congrats on getting to a better place; hopefully you can go further and expand more!

EGreg 16y ago

These kinds of stories are definitely cool to hear :) Maybe you can tell us more about what you did right, and what your business does!

justlearning 16y ago

would you be willing to divulge details on your app/business and country you reside in? Does this income sustain your family? $300-400 usd seems very little to get by. At the time of your posting, it seemed like a "student" in need of the cash. It's pay back time - your experiences,lessons learnt will be appreciated.

ynniv 16y ago
$400 USD is quite prosperous in many parts of the world. Not in the US, or the wealthier nations.
- raheemm 16y ago
  Really? Like where? Not being sarcastic but even in a cheap place like Bangladesh, you need atleast $700/month to have a decent hacker life (constant electricity, decent internet, own apt, a hacker-friendly environment - coffee, music, hobby, junk food, etc).
  - tectonic 16y ago
    Much of China, I believe.
  - petercooper 16y ago
    In many countries and cultures, "staying at home" till quite late is the norm (Italy, for example) with few or heavily shared expenses beyond personal possessions. Sometimes, the family home houses multiple generations and is merely passed down without everyone moving out. I'm married with a kid and own a home now, but back in the days when I lived with my parents, even paying them a modest rent and share of utilities I could have "lived" on $500 a month without causing them much/any expense. Just. :)
  - olalonde 16y ago
    400$ a month is doable in China but forget about nightlife or cockroach-free apartments. Disclaimer: I lived a few months in Shenzhen.

Jasitis 16y ago

how do i start doing this

barnaby 16y ago
Guys don't downvote somebody on their FIRST POST on HN. This guy may legitimately want to know how to do this, that's one hell of a good reason to be on HN. Jastis, to answer your question, you do it one step at a time, because if you try to do too many things (or too big of a thing) at once then nothing gets done. Bite off one small thing a day and you'll be amazed how much gets done in half a year.
- barnaby 16y ago
  :-) yay, he's up to ten! I should point out that when I wrote this, the poor guys post was at negative 4.
- Hexstream 16y ago
  Hum. Do you always check a user's profile before downvoting if you don't remember seeing him before? I can't imagine myself doing that. Or are you using some sort of plugin that gives you more info inline?
  - barnaby 16y ago
    I wish I had a tool like that. No I just had an intuition to check this time. I've probably been guilty of downvoting newbies myself without checking.
- mleonhard 16y ago
  Get a personal wiki program like ZuluPad and start making lists of things you need to do to build your business. Break each thing into many small tasks so you can check them off and see the progress you're making. I've been working steadily on my startup since I left my job in April. My "DONE" list has 88 items. Last night I finished another task: adding proper logging to my web service. There are a lot more tasks on my "TO DO" list, but now there are none blocking me from launching the beta version of my service next week.

bmelton 16y ago

Congratulations -- but uhm... shouldn't you check back in with Patrick and make sure his needs are met? I mean, he's Customer #1, and it sounds like your reaction to that was to abandon him. I might be misreading, or Patrick may have backfilled you, but the 1 thing I know about business to be more true than most things, is you take care of your early customers, specifically if they were good to you.

tptacek 16y ago
Evolving relationships are a fact of life in consulting. Sometimes relationships grow, or even engulf the whole business, like Lucky Strike did for SCDP in Mad Men and Microsoft has done with a number of security consultancies. Other times, relationships become vestigial or vanish entirely. The entire point of consulting arrangements is to allow businesses to set the most flexible and reasonable terms to work under. If Patrick wanted a Wordpress theme factory forever, he could have made that a contract term. Somehow, I doubt he did. Matasano engaged Patrick. We may be one of his earliest clients! Somehow, I doubt he'll be as available for tactical one-off projects for much longer. That makes me happy.
- patio11 16y ago
  Matasano was client #2, and I just wrapped up at #3 (y'all know them, but they have a blog post due in November so I'll let them announce it). Suffice it to say "You have ample reason to be happy."
wwortiz 16y ago
From Patrick: > I'd be able to give you one project a month for $400 until you either got sick of doing them or decided to move upmarket. [http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171663 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171663]
needmoney 16y ago
You're right. But Patrick indicated to me that he was happy for me and that he would understand if I couldn't go on. I'll be totally honest, I should've kept in better sync with him and I felt terrible that my 2nd project fell behind schedule, but I really found myself totally engulfed in putting out fires in my personal business. Nothing went according to plan. I didn't abandon his project though, I finished it and got it to him a little late. I was just looking at it again today and I saw some problems I hadn't noticed before, so I sent him a patch. It's really only now that I'm starting to get back a bit of time where I can do things like write this. I sent him an email telling him about this thread, but I'd bet he's asleep now.

messel 16y ago

I can't compete with surviving at $400 a month. That alone is amazing. The fact that you built a business is inspiring. Thanks for sharing your tale needmoney. As others have mentioned, we'd like to know what your business is. Is it web based? Are you manufacturing widgets? Share the details :D

needmoney 16y ago
I live in a developing country, share an apartment, and am relatively frugal. I do however spend money on things that save me significant amounts of time.

pacomerh 16y ago

Nice!, that's very inspiring, specially for the fact that you weren't afraid of asking for help. Lately I've been putting my pride aside and have been asking my friends, family and people I know about my services, and they don't necessarily give me work, but they link me to other people who need it. My whole point is that being open is really crucial, at first I didn't want to look as they friend who needed work really, but know I'm asking friends to help me with some projects (web production btw). It would be nice to read about your whole experience though. Thx

jseliger 16y ago

A quick question: do you have a site for your work? I ask because I've been using a pretty bogus, standard theme for my hosted Wordpress blog (http://blog.seliger.com http://blog.seliger.com) and could probably swing $400 for a real theme.

messel 16y ago
Business number 2 for needmoney, building the Theme Factory. I can't decide if I want to customize themes or hire a designer. I've tweaked my own theme a dozen times this year.
- brc 16y ago
  My rule is : if you think you might need a designer, you need a designer. My life (and work) has been infinitely better since I let go and paid good money to good designers to do good work. Find one, build a relationship and trust and then trust their judgement.
  - jseliger 16y ago
    My rule is : if you think you might need a designer, you need a designer. That's basically my thought process.

kloncks 16y ago

I'd love to hear more details too, especially the name of the country you live in. One of the beautiful thing about the Internet is how it allows you to set up nice lifestyle businesses. If I have a successful application (I'm 20), I could easily travel around the world working wherever there is an Internet connection and just getting by nicely. At least for a few years!

vishaldpatel 16y ago

Hey man! Congrats!!! =)... Success stories are among the best type of stories :)

csomar 16y ago

My life has change (and also my little mind) thanks to Hacker News. I should say "I read enough, yet a lot", may be more than 500 pages (I already printed 200 or so). Not only my financial situation changed, but also the way I view the world. Just 400 days before now, $25 is my monthly money pocket that I get from my parents and it should cover all my expenses (except clothes, food and obviously housing). Now I have my own Internet subscription ($30 a month) and also I just purchased a VPS and a couple of SaaS service. I did bought my Nokia feature phone ($150) also myself and this little netbook I'm typing from ($400). That in 300 days or so, and by the end of this year, I'm planning on buying a Sony Z series, 23'' monitor and a smartphone. I have 3 years browsing and reading the Internet, but it's only in the last year that I started making money out of it (not browsing! the internet). This wouldn't be done without Hacker News. I should also mention that my English was revamped considerably and ... okay, lot of things actually. Thanks HN! You didn't give me money but you did teach me how to make it and also LIVE happy.

illumin8 16y ago
Don't spend all your money on toys... The few hundred dollars you've spent already, had you invested it in your business, or even put it into savings, could be worth tens of thousands or even millions a few decades from now.
- csomar 16y ago
  That's something I learnt while working and it really helped me a lot (and will in my professional life). However, I don't have my own computer (shared one, except this netbook); so I need a better setup for my development. I try to prioritize the items I need. An external hard-drive comes first, because I should have a backup strategy. The monitor is more important, because I need better display... Certainly, I'll offer myself an Android as a gift and that also should serve and help me in business (read emails in the go, check statics, HN on mobile instead of computer...)
  - heresy 16y ago
    If you can learn the power of compound interest at your age, you're going to retire very comfortably.

AlexBlom 16y ago

Honestly, well done for getting out there and making something happen.

mhartl 16y ago

I took him up on it. This alone is a hugely valuable lesson. When you need help, and someone offers help, accept the help. (Of course, you had already learned the first lesson: When you need help, ask for help.)

ritonlajoie 16y ago

What a very refreshing story ! Thanks for sharing. I wan't on HN when this happened but I read all the 1171520 thread and spent almost 2 hours on different discussions that your thread is spawning, related to ebook sales, wordpress theming, etc.. I think the majority of HN readers are just like you : interested in what _we_, as 'hackers', can do. Related to 'change the world', or 'make money'. The thing is to combine both. You seem to be pretty well. Bravo and keep up the good work !

sleight42 16y ago

In all seriousness, good for you! And even better, you are probably similarly helping those 5 other people in your employ.

plainOldText 16y ago

Great story, but I hope people won't get inspired by this in the direction to start submitting their request for help for non-sense/non-relevant aspects to the HN Community.

mobl 16y ago

Hi there. Great story, I can get you some work too for themes and other stuff related to video games. jimmy@inodesoft.com Keep having a very bright and sucessful day! :-)

jackfoxy 16y ago

...and you're providing employment, the highest form of charity.

EGF 16y ago

This is really great to hear! The community here has really been great to me as well and the thoughtfulness and quality of answers is really remarkable. Awesome that the business is a bakery too!

matthewhelt 16y ago

its stories like this which have been very encouraging in my own venture. a comment on the cost of living in the united states, and how to do it cheaply. i live in oakland, california - in the heart of the san francisco bay area. my cost of living is incredibly low, my rent is $300, utilities are about $90 a month and that includes power and 1MB network connection. i ride a bike everywhere i go, don't own a car. i cook all my own food, i purchase organic produce for cheap at the local farmers market. my entire monthly living expenses are less than 500 dollars, in a location where i can get to financial district of san francisco in about 14 minutes. my business venture is based in my bedroom, my tech co-founder lives in mendocino county. we're currently in product development phase creating an analytical system for precision viticulture. we're getting ready to start our first adventures in funding. reading stories about people buckling down, focusing on their ventures, and achieving success has (for lack of a better term) inspired me. hacker news and the whole entrepreneurial community in the bay area have been key to informing my decisions.