9 ms·

NIC.LY statement regarding the decision to block vb.ly

99 points by glenngillen 16y ago

jacquesm 16y ago
key bit here: > The domain has also been excluded from future registrations so that no other entity (local or abroad) can re-register it. So much for PGs theory that someone there wanted the domain and they took it at a pretext: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1764475 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1764475 It should be easy enough to check up on it periodically to see if they're true to their word. I wonder if the "local Libyan internet community" is an open body or if they are semi government. On the whole this is a pretty levelheaded and clear response, and it never hurts to see the other side of the story. That said, I still think that you're much better off to invest your time, money and effort in to .com, .net and .org domains and to steer clear of cutesy domains from countries that can disable your domain based on the content of your services. As for their regulations being only available in Arabic: http://nic.ly/regulations.php http://nic.ly/regulations.php
- kno 16y ago
  … My advice, stay clear of putting your business interest in the hands of countries like Libya. These guys are still decades from simple notions as the rule of law, no direct offense to Libya and Libyans. [EDIT] It may be hard for everyone to understand my point because of cultural differences, BUT I lived in similar country, I’m talking from experience not common sense.
  - gaius 16y ago
    Steer clear of registering a domain in a country you're not actually in...
- pg 16y ago
  That's what they say now. Maybe it was their original motivation; maybe not. But I know for a fact they've confiscated names in order to resell them in the past, because they did it to Answerly.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    Yes, that's what makes this hard, but keeping an eye on them is trivial, and it would be easy enough to call them out on this for any future violations where they sell the domain. What was their stated reason for repossessing the answerly domain? The bit in the other thread reads like this: "We purchased .ly variant of our domain name through an authorized Libyan registrar about 10 months ago. It was seized back without explanation a few days later. When I contacted the registrar I was told that the domain was available for "four figures" through domains.ly (an aftermarket .ly reseller service that is operated by the same authorized registrar we used to purchase the domain initially). The domain wasn't critical, so we didn't pursue it any further.", so that seems to be a ploy by the (greedy) registrar rather than by NIC.ly from what I can see. Did that make the news in any way?
    - tptacek 16y ago
      And when you "call them out on this" and they ignore you, because domain registration revenue is a pittance next to the revenues they get from petrochemicals, what's your next step?
      - boundlessdreamz 16y ago
        That doesn't make sense. If they ignore you because the revenue is pittance, then they wouldn't bother with trying to resell the domains either.
        tptacek 16y ago
        The revenue from the largest domain registrars in the world won't move the dials on the Libyan GDP. And .LY isn't even close to one of the largest TLDs. The Libyan economy is dominated by an 11-figure petrochemical industry. I'm not seeing the "if" here.
        boundlessdreamz 16y ago
        1. The revenue from petrochemicals is not going to NIC.ly. 2. You contested jacquesm's argument that NIC.ly can be "called out" when the sell the domain. You said that, NIC.ly will probably ignore that because the domain registering revenue is a pittance. If that is true, then NIC.ly won't try to confiscate and then sell a domain. Why go to all that trouble when they can sit back and enjoy petrochemical dollars. a: So if NIC.ly thinks domain registration revenues are a pittance, then they won't sell the domain. b: If it is not a pittance they can be called out because they have to listen to valid complaints. Otherwise no one will register .ly domains
- dotBen 16y ago
  As for their regulations being only available in Arabic: http://nic.ly/regulations.php http://nic.ly/regulations.php Yeah, did you read ALL of the regulations? Including the bit about your content needing to stay within Libyan law. Try finding ANYWHERE on the Internet that outlines what Libyan law is in English. And I say English not because I expect the Internet to all be in English, but simply because as you point out the official NIC.ly regulations are published in English. Without that, it is impossible to put together a complete set of the regulations (the NIC.ly regs + the Libyan law).
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    How can you hold the NIC.ly administration responsible for there not being a Libyan law reference in English? One way to deal with stuff like this is to engage the services of a local legal expert and have them spell it out for you. That's not a thing for a layperson, even if they're versed in Arabic. You should do the same if you intend to register a .de domain and don't have access to the German law texts and/or do not speak German. The German authorities are under no obligation to present their texts in English, in fact they would definitely not do a thing like that because it would create potential ambiguity. And yes, I read all of the regulations, and yes, I think they're perfectly reasonable. And I would never ever think of registering a .ly domain because of those regulations.
  - tlrobinson 16y ago
    Perhaps you shouldn't have built your business on a Libyan domain in the first place then...
    - chadgeidel 16y ago
      This is what I keep coming back to. When you register a foreign domain, you are at the mercy of the laws/whims of that entity. Eyes wide open and all that.
- shafqat 16y ago
  Pretty good statement in my opinion. It's sad that western media portrayed this entire incident as a "crazy muslim country that does whatever it wants in the name of Sharia law." Seriously? The communication could have been better (or perhaps it was nonexistent), but if they have regulations not allowing adult and NSFW content on their domains, they are well within their rights. There are many US hosts that have similar regulations and its absolutely understandable.
  - wdewind 16y ago
    I've yet to see someone say they aren't within their right. I think the complaint is in the lack of upfront warning, and the track record of seizing non-sex related domains (Answer.ly).
joelhaasnoot 16y ago
Communication, communication, communication... Read your 'technical contact' email!
- dotBen 16y ago
  um no, spin spin spin... see my thread above http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1772206 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1772206
dotBen 16y ago
For the record we did NOT receive any communication from NIC.ly before they pulled the vb.ly domain. We had received other emails from them previously including our domain renewal notice just a month and a half before so I know they had a working email address for us and that we were receiving their other correspondence. They've made out in their statement that we ignored their email - given how upset myself and Violet Blue have been over this I would urge people to consider whether these are the actions of two people who would intentionally ignore such a significant warning. Why would we do that? I do, however, feel relieved that they will not be letting anyone else register the domain - we were concerned from a security perspective of someone else registering the domain and re-routing existing vb.ly links out there to insecure or spoofed websites. (we hadn't highlighted this concern previously because we didn't want to give anyone ideas but now they have said the domain is 'locked' I'm happy to talk about that concern)
- jacquesm 16y ago
  hey Ben, Not to add insult to injury, but it is very hard - next to impossible - to believe your version of this over the nic.ly version or vice-versa given the available evidence. All there is are stories. You are the 'injured party' and it is to your advantage to present your case as strong as possible, and not being warned is of course going to make the other side look bad. They in turn are going to make it seem as though they did everything they could and only used the disabling as a last resort. From what I understand though, you were happy to operate this service under their terms and conditions, knowing full well that they could repossess the domain at a moments notice. I would very much like to believe that they never sent you any email but it's going to be very hard for you to prove that conclusively, they are going to have an equally hard time showing that they warned you, but even if they didn't it will not change things much (as far as I can see they're not going to have a change of heart any time soon). If I were you I'd pick a .com that has a good ring to it and relaunch, use the current media frenzy around the story to get your new name out there before you are 'old news'. That way you get to rescue as much of the wreckage as possible. Think about the future, not about the past. Good luck!
  - dotBen 16y ago
lvh 16y ago
Appears to be down for me.
- ErrantX 16y ago
  Keep trying now and again; it seems to come and go. Just in case here is the current text: NIC.ly rules and regulations were set by the local Libyan internet community (in accordance with best practices for ccTLDs) to reflect it’s identity and content. It’s a bottom up module in which the Community’s feedback, opinions and remarks are taken into decision-making consideration, and it is our duty to uphold these rules and regulations to serve the better interests of the community we represent. In reference to the vb.ly incident: the domain’s purpose (proclaimed by its registrants themselves) was to serve as a ‘sex friendly URL shortener’, mainly for adult uses. This means that vb.ly had a policy different than the other URL shorteners, not using filters and encouraging the use of this service for creating links to adult sites and other “NSFW” links, thus placing vb.ly by definition in the porn/adult site category. This use was deemed as unacceptable by our local internet community, regardless of whether or not the site hosts adult material or redirects traffic to 3rd party sites Contrary to vb.ly’s claims, they were contacted on numerous occasions to investigate these concerns, and over the course of these contacts vb.ly has ignored our efforts and even changed their contact numbers. When our repeated warnings were ignored, and after over 3 weeks of failed attempts to contact the owners of vb.ly, NIC.ly had no alternative but to apply its regulations that clearly state that it reserves the right to suspend or remove a .ly domain name in violation of rules and regulations. The domain has also been excluded from future registrations so that no other entity (local or abroad) can re-register it. As to the decision to keep the registration of domain names shorter than 4 symbols long under .ly only for entities with a local Libyan presence, this comes in accordance with NIC.ly’s concern that the rise in popularity of URL shorteners from abroad taking up all these names has deprived locals of their right to register the important 3 letter abbreviations of their various businesses and interests. We as a Registry would prefer seeing art.ly used for a website about Libyan art for instance, or lda.ly used by the Libyan De-mining Association, rather than adding more URL shorteners under our National TLD. For over 5 years, we as a Libyan Registry recognized by ICANN have been open for domain name registrations from all around the Globe, and we pride ourselves on being the online destination of thousands of domain names from all over the World. Over this span of time never once have we abused the trust invested in us by the Global internet community, nor have we ever taken advantage of having an attractive extension like ‘.ly’. Only when our Community's rules and regulations were compromised was when we had to act.
konad 16y ago
Now they are offline too, that'll learn 'em
dotBen 16y ago
We've released a response to NIC.ly's statement, available at http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/2010/10/our-response-to-nic-lys-statement-on-the-vb-ly-domain-deletion/ http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/2010/10/our-response-to-nic-lys-...
chasers 16y ago
Some really good points about this whole fiasco here --> http://saint-rebel.com/2010/10/06/feigned-outrage-ly-domains-are-fine-just-respect-the-tos/ http://saint-rebel.com/2010/10/06/feigned-outrage-ly-domains...
philwelch 16y ago
The vb.ly story reminds me of when Christmas Island shut down goatse.cx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatse.cx#Domain_suspension_and_sale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatse.cx#Domain_suspension_and...).
- nkassis 16y ago
  I think in this case they did good to all of humanity by removing it ;p ( I used to think free speech was above all until I forgot my account log in for 5 mintues once at work and someone wrote a script that pulled up firefox and goatse every 5 minutes ;p)
slantyyz 16y ago
I'm not sure I understand the hubbub over this. When you register a domain from a country where.. um, "reasonable dispute resolution" can't be expected, caveat emptor. If this was a dispute with Network Solutions, or GoDaddy, I can see the outrage. But it's with a domain associated with Libya. I say again, Libya. Lower your expectations, and then lower them even more.
- borism 16y ago
  It's not simply Libya. This country's full name is Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    Yes, just like the former East Germany was called 'the peoples democratic republic of Germany'. North Korea, China and a bunch of others all have very flowery names hiding some pretty ugly stuff.
    - borism 16y ago
      I dunno what your comment has to do with anything other than getting upvotes, which I'm sure you'll get plenty of. My comment was more geared towards pointing out the obvious incompatibility of US based porn capitalist and Libyan Arab Socialist government. And that's not even getting into history of these two countries' relations. I'm amused how little educated some people here are about the Rest of the World.
      - slantyyz 16y ago
        ...pointing out the obvious incompatibility of US based porn capitalist and Libyan Arab Socialist government. And that's not even getting into history of these two countries' relations. from your original comment: It's not simply Libya. This country's full name is Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya. I tend to think the more common takeaway from your comment is that you were being picky about my use of Libya's common name as opposed to the full name. That's how I read it.
magamiako 16y ago
Sorry dotBen, but you're being a whiney crybaby on here. OH NO, LIBYAN GOVERNMENT DOESN'T RESPECT US RULES! No shit... Move on from it. Otherwise go join a political group that fights for women's rights in Libya.
tptacek 16y ago
Who cares what they say? This is an organization run in a nation state without the rule of law. There is no governing organization you can appeal to to ensure their decisionmaking is consistent. The rule that allocated them ".ly" is (essentially) ISO 3166-1, and ISO 3166-1 does not care about you, your business, or your rights. Neither, it should go without saying, does Libya.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  > This is an organization run in a nation state without the rule of law. Libya actually has a pretty modern legal system (other than being based on 'Sharia' law that is), with several levels of appeal possible including a supreme court. > There is no governing organization you can appeal to to ensure their decisionmaking is consistent. Actually, there is: This Regulation shall be interpreted and construed under Libyan Law. So you could appeal to the Libyan courts. As they say though, good luck with that, but that would be something to do before making the claim that this was unlawful.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    That doesn't mean anything. The "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya" outlawed political parties 40 years ago and has been ruled by Muammar Gaddafi ever since. The Iraqi Baath party could have made the same legal process claims, while leaving out the fact that you'd be slowly boiled in a vat of oil if you attempted to avail yourself of that process. We need to stop kidding ourselves. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it not real: people buying .ly names are doing business with one of the world's great dictatorships. Whether or not that's bad ethically, it sure is a dubious business decision.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      > That doesn't mean anything. The "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya" outlawed political parties 40 years ago and has been ruled by Muammar Gaddafi ever since. Agreed, but you'd have to give them the benefit of the doubt before pronouncing judgment, otherwise you can't make that statement. After their courts have let you down you could make the case that you've been duped but given the terms-of-service I would not find it totally incredible if the courts sided with the NIC for valid reasons. > The Iraqi Baath party could have made the same legal process claims, while leaving out the fact that you'd be slowly boiled in a vat of oil if you attempted to avail yourself of that process. Unlikely in this case, and we're discussing Libya, not Iraq before the removal of Saddam Hussain & his cronies. > We need to stop kidding ourselves. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it not real: people buying .ly names are doing business with one of the world's great dictatorships. As dictatorships come, Libya is fairly small fry. Just like in former Iraq - which we're still not discussing ;) - life for most Libyans is at a perfectly acceptable standard for the region, and they are not so upset about these things that they seem to be inclined to overthrow their government any time soon. > Whether or not that's bad ethically, it sure is a dubious business decision. Personally I would not do business with a .ly registrar exactly because I would not want to put my business at risk like that, but also because doing so effectively sustains a regime that I feel no sympathy for. I don't think that any money sent to the .ly registrars will end up to benefit the Libyan population in general, but most likely will end up in a few very select pockets or to do stuff that I do not want to be associated with.
ritonlajoie 16y ago
I find this story about vb.ly pretty interesting. First of all, I'm sorry for your loss ! :) The thing is, as many pointed out, don't expect to be able to negociate anything with Libya. I'm not saying it's a bad country or anything, but it's just how this country runs ! They do their stuff, and that's ok with me. (I'm no-one to have any concern about how the libians should run their internet). The .ly domains are pretty popular these days. Maybe because there is bit.ly which is well known, and because 'ly' is something new, and better than '.fr' for example. But maybe it's time to move on. I know, the domain is important. But vb.ly is not like smart.ly ! it's not a word. You can take any other domain from now, and your name won't change that much. Jacquesm (who I respect a lot), is saying the key bit is that they won't let anyone register this domain again. What makes me write a comment here is another 'bit', : "We as a Registry would prefer seeing art.ly used for a website about Libyan art for instance, or lda.ly used by the Libyan De-mining Association, rather than adding more URL shorteners under our National TLD." THIS, is something I really can understand. The net is something done globally, and it's not something that just can be ruled by what _we_ call the western world. The LY domain is the libian top domain. As far as I know, Libya is a country, and they so have the right to rule this domain as they wish. Maybe they want some control over it ? That's their right. They have policies different than the .com NIC registration rules, they also have the right to be different, in their .ly ruling, than what _we_ (the westerns) have done done with the .net/.com/.org domains. And maybe this call to 'we would prefer art.ly pointing to a libian art website' is maybe only PR stuff. But even in France I remember some trials about national TV's websites (france2.fr, france3.fr) that foreigners owned. These owners lost their domains due to the fact that .FR domains are made FOR FRANCE. That means, France, the country, can do whatever he wants with the .FR if you don't comply to THEIR rules. So, in short, I'm just saying I completely agree with that particular point. Libya is growing, it's going on the globalization stuff. Maybe they are right to have a control over their domains (as they SHOULD do, in my opinion). Maybe one day they will develop their tourism and will have to host websites on very important domains , related to them (on .ly). And I would not be surprised if they properly stop the renewal of some .ly domains in the idea to acquire them for themselves, in order to host art.ly, hostels.ly, etc... And you know, I would find it very _right_. edit: I accept any downvote, no worries ! I know what I am saying here is completely against freedom regarding whoever wants to squat the .ly domains ! And I know I'm actually defending what they did, and that they don't have a good reputation. Personally I hate their president/king whatever because of what he did in the past, but that's not a reason to loose it on Libya, with some racist arguments I read here, just because they modified the way we see the domain rulings :)
jrockway 16y ago
I'm offended that NIC.LY would use the expression "sex positive". It should be shut down. (Incidentally, paranoia about my domain being killed is why I have my real contact information in my .us registration. NIC.* registrars seem to be super-strict about their registration policies.)
bananaandapple 16y ago
You simply deserved to loose that domain. The lybian tld has their own set rules, you didn't obey to their TOS, so you loose your domain. If they contacted you or not, is completely irrelevant. And I guess that they did contact you, but if you would acknowledge it now, it would come out that you were lying big from the start.
ahyes 16y ago
I was more upset when goatse was shut down by the christmas island registry.

99 points by glenngillen 16y ago

key bit here: > The domain has also been excluded from future registrations so that no other entity (local or abroad) can re-register it. So much for PGs theory that someone there wanted the domain and they took it at a pretext: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1764475 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1764475 It should be easy enough to check up on it periodically to see if they're true to their word. I wonder if the "local Libyan internet community" is an open body or if they are semi government. On the whole this is a pretty levelheaded and clear response, and it never hurts to see the other side of the story. That said, I still think that you're much better off to invest your time, money and effort in to .com, .net and .org domains and to steer clear of cutesy domains from countries that can disable your domain based on the content of your services. As for their regulations being only available in Arabic: http://nic.ly/regulations.php http://nic.ly/regulations.php

kno 16y ago
… My advice, stay clear of putting your business interest in the hands of countries like Libya. These guys are still decades from simple notions as the rule of law, no direct offense to Libya and Libyans. [EDIT] It may be hard for everyone to understand my point because of cultural differences, BUT I lived in similar country, I’m talking from experience not common sense.
- gaius 16y ago
  Steer clear of registering a domain in a country you're not actually in...
pg 16y ago
That's what they say now. Maybe it was their original motivation; maybe not. But I know for a fact they've confiscated names in order to resell them in the past, because they did it to Answerly.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  Yes, that's what makes this hard, but keeping an eye on them is trivial, and it would be easy enough to call them out on this for any future violations where they sell the domain. What was their stated reason for repossessing the answerly domain? The bit in the other thread reads like this: "We purchased .ly variant of our domain name through an authorized Libyan registrar about 10 months ago. It was seized back without explanation a few days later. When I contacted the registrar I was told that the domain was available for "four figures" through domains.ly (an aftermarket .ly reseller service that is operated by the same authorized registrar we used to purchase the domain initially). The domain wasn't critical, so we didn't pursue it any further.", so that seems to be a ploy by the (greedy) registrar rather than by NIC.ly from what I can see. Did that make the news in any way?
  - tptacek 16y ago
    And when you "call them out on this" and they ignore you, because domain registration revenue is a pittance next to the revenues they get from petrochemicals, what's your next step?
    - boundlessdreamz 16y ago
      That doesn't make sense. If they ignore you because the revenue is pittance, then they wouldn't bother with trying to resell the domains either.
      - tptacek 16y ago
        The revenue from the largest domain registrars in the world won't move the dials on the Libyan GDP. And .LY isn't even close to one of the largest TLDs. The Libyan economy is dominated by an 11-figure petrochemical industry. I'm not seeing the "if" here.
        boundlessdreamz 16y ago
        1. The revenue from petrochemicals is not going to NIC.ly. 2. You contested jacquesm's argument that NIC.ly can be "called out" when the sell the domain. You said that, NIC.ly will probably ignore that because the domain registering revenue is a pittance. If that is true, then NIC.ly won't try to confiscate and then sell a domain. Why go to all that trouble when they can sit back and enjoy petrochemical dollars. a: So if NIC.ly thinks domain registration revenues are a pittance, then they won't sell the domain. b: If it is not a pittance they can be called out because they have to listen to valid complaints. Otherwise no one will register .ly domains
dotBen 16y ago
As for their regulations being only available in Arabic: http://nic.ly/regulations.php http://nic.ly/regulations.php Yeah, did you read ALL of the regulations? Including the bit about your content needing to stay within Libyan law. Try finding ANYWHERE on the Internet that outlines what Libyan law is in English. And I say English not because I expect the Internet to all be in English, but simply because as you point out the official NIC.ly regulations are published in English. Without that, it is impossible to put together a complete set of the regulations (the NIC.ly regs + the Libyan law).
- jacquesm 16y ago
  How can you hold the NIC.ly administration responsible for there not being a Libyan law reference in English? One way to deal with stuff like this is to engage the services of a local legal expert and have them spell it out for you. That's not a thing for a layperson, even if they're versed in Arabic. You should do the same if you intend to register a .de domain and don't have access to the German law texts and/or do not speak German. The German authorities are under no obligation to present their texts in English, in fact they would definitely not do a thing like that because it would create potential ambiguity. And yes, I read all of the regulations, and yes, I think they're perfectly reasonable. And I would never ever think of registering a .ly domain because of those regulations.
- tlrobinson 16y ago
  Perhaps you shouldn't have built your business on a Libyan domain in the first place then...
  - chadgeidel 16y ago
    This is what I keep coming back to. When you register a foreign domain, you are at the mercy of the laws/whims of that entity. Eyes wide open and all that.
shafqat 16y ago
Pretty good statement in my opinion. It's sad that western media portrayed this entire incident as a "crazy muslim country that does whatever it wants in the name of Sharia law." Seriously? The communication could have been better (or perhaps it was nonexistent), but if they have regulations not allowing adult and NSFW content on their domains, they are well within their rights. There are many US hosts that have similar regulations and its absolutely understandable.
- wdewind 16y ago
  I've yet to see someone say they aren't within their right. I think the complaint is in the lack of upfront warning, and the track record of seizing non-sex related domains (Answer.ly).

joelhaasnoot 16y ago

Communication, communication, communication... Read your 'technical contact' email!

dotBen 16y ago
um no, spin spin spin... see my thread above http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1772206 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1772206

dotBen 16y ago

For the record we did NOT receive any communication from NIC.ly before they pulled the vb.ly domain. We had received other emails from them previously including our domain renewal notice just a month and a half before so I know they had a working email address for us and that we were receiving their other correspondence. They've made out in their statement that we ignored their email - given how upset myself and Violet Blue have been over this I would urge people to consider whether these are the actions of two people who would intentionally ignore such a significant warning. Why would we do that? I do, however, feel relieved that they will not be letting anyone else register the domain - we were concerned from a security perspective of someone else registering the domain and re-routing existing vb.ly links out there to insecure or spoofed websites. (we hadn't highlighted this concern previously because we didn't want to give anyone ideas but now they have said the domain is 'locked' I'm happy to talk about that concern)

jacquesm 16y ago
hey Ben, Not to add insult to injury, but it is very hard - next to impossible - to believe your version of this over the nic.ly version or vice-versa given the available evidence. All there is are stories. You are the 'injured party' and it is to your advantage to present your case as strong as possible, and not being warned is of course going to make the other side look bad. They in turn are going to make it seem as though they did everything they could and only used the disabling as a last resort. From what I understand though, you were happy to operate this service under their terms and conditions, knowing full well that they could repossess the domain at a moments notice. I would very much like to believe that they never sent you any email but it's going to be very hard for you to prove that conclusively, they are going to have an equally hard time showing that they warned you, but even if they didn't it will not change things much (as far as I can see they're not going to have a change of heart any time soon). If I were you I'd pick a .com that has a good ring to it and relaunch, use the current media frenzy around the story to get your new name out there before you are 'old news'. That way you get to rescue as much of the wreckage as possible. Think about the future, not about the past. Good luck!
- dotBen 16y ago

lvh 16y ago

Appears to be down for me.

ErrantX 16y ago
Keep trying now and again; it seems to come and go. Just in case here is the current text: NIC.ly rules and regulations were set by the local Libyan internet community (in accordance with best practices for ccTLDs) to reflect it’s identity and content. It’s a bottom up module in which the Community’s feedback, opinions and remarks are taken into decision-making consideration, and it is our duty to uphold these rules and regulations to serve the better interests of the community we represent. In reference to the vb.ly incident: the domain’s purpose (proclaimed by its registrants themselves) was to serve as a ‘sex friendly URL shortener’, mainly for adult uses. This means that vb.ly had a policy different than the other URL shorteners, not using filters and encouraging the use of this service for creating links to adult sites and other “NSFW” links, thus placing vb.ly by definition in the porn/adult site category. This use was deemed as unacceptable by our local internet community, regardless of whether or not the site hosts adult material or redirects traffic to 3rd party sites Contrary to vb.ly’s claims, they were contacted on numerous occasions to investigate these concerns, and over the course of these contacts vb.ly has ignored our efforts and even changed their contact numbers. When our repeated warnings were ignored, and after over 3 weeks of failed attempts to contact the owners of vb.ly, NIC.ly had no alternative but to apply its regulations that clearly state that it reserves the right to suspend or remove a .ly domain name in violation of rules and regulations. The domain has also been excluded from future registrations so that no other entity (local or abroad) can re-register it. As to the decision to keep the registration of domain names shorter than 4 symbols long under .ly only for entities with a local Libyan presence, this comes in accordance with NIC.ly’s concern that the rise in popularity of URL shorteners from abroad taking up all these names has deprived locals of their right to register the important 3 letter abbreviations of their various businesses and interests. We as a Registry would prefer seeing art.ly used for a website about Libyan art for instance, or lda.ly used by the Libyan De-mining Association, rather than adding more URL shorteners under our National TLD. For over 5 years, we as a Libyan Registry recognized by ICANN have been open for domain name registrations from all around the Globe, and we pride ourselves on being the online destination of thousands of domain names from all over the World. Over this span of time never once have we abused the trust invested in us by the Global internet community, nor have we ever taken advantage of having an attractive extension like ‘.ly’. Only when our Community's rules and regulations were compromised was when we had to act.

konad 16y ago

Now they are offline too, that'll learn 'em

dotBen 16y ago

We've released a response to NIC.ly's statement, available at http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/2010/10/our-response-to-nic-lys-statement-on-the-vb-ly-domain-deletion/ http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/2010/10/our-response-to-nic-lys-...

chasers 16y ago

Some really good points about this whole fiasco here --> http://saint-rebel.com/2010/10/06/feigned-outrage-ly-domains-are-fine-just-respect-the-tos/ http://saint-rebel.com/2010/10/06/feigned-outrage-ly-domains...

philwelch 16y ago

The vb.ly story reminds me of when Christmas Island shut down goatse.cx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatse.cx#Domain_suspension_and_sale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goatse.cx#Domain_suspension_and...).

nkassis 16y ago
I think in this case they did good to all of humanity by removing it ;p ( I used to think free speech was above all until I forgot my account log in for 5 mintues once at work and someone wrote a script that pulled up firefox and goatse every 5 minutes ;p)

slantyyz 16y ago

I'm not sure I understand the hubbub over this. When you register a domain from a country where.. um, "reasonable dispute resolution" can't be expected, caveat emptor. If this was a dispute with Network Solutions, or GoDaddy, I can see the outrage. But it's with a domain associated with Libya. I say again, Libya. Lower your expectations, and then lower them even more.

borism 16y ago
It's not simply Libya. This country's full name is Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  Yes, just like the former East Germany was called 'the peoples democratic republic of Germany'. North Korea, China and a bunch of others all have very flowery names hiding some pretty ugly stuff.
  - borism 16y ago
    I dunno what your comment has to do with anything other than getting upvotes, which I'm sure you'll get plenty of. My comment was more geared towards pointing out the obvious incompatibility of US based porn capitalist and Libyan Arab Socialist government. And that's not even getting into history of these two countries' relations. I'm amused how little educated some people here are about the Rest of the World.
    - slantyyz 16y ago
      ...pointing out the obvious incompatibility of US based porn capitalist and Libyan Arab Socialist government. And that's not even getting into history of these two countries' relations. from your original comment: It's not simply Libya. This country's full name is Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya. I tend to think the more common takeaway from your comment is that you were being picky about my use of Libya's common name as opposed to the full name. That's how I read it.

magamiako 16y ago

Sorry dotBen, but you're being a whiney crybaby on here. OH NO, LIBYAN GOVERNMENT DOESN'T RESPECT US RULES! No shit... Move on from it. Otherwise go join a political group that fights for women's rights in Libya.

tptacek 16y ago

Who cares what they say? This is an organization run in a nation state without the rule of law. There is no governing organization you can appeal to to ensure their decisionmaking is consistent. The rule that allocated them ".ly" is (essentially) ISO 3166-1, and ISO 3166-1 does not care about you, your business, or your rights. Neither, it should go without saying, does Libya.

jacquesm 16y ago
> This is an organization run in a nation state without the rule of law. Libya actually has a pretty modern legal system (other than being based on 'Sharia' law that is), with several levels of appeal possible including a supreme court. > There is no governing organization you can appeal to to ensure their decisionmaking is consistent. Actually, there is: This Regulation shall be interpreted and construed under Libyan Law. So you could appeal to the Libyan courts. As they say though, good luck with that, but that would be something to do before making the claim that this was unlawful.
- tptacek 16y ago
  That doesn't mean anything. The "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya" outlawed political parties 40 years ago and has been ruled by Muammar Gaddafi ever since. The Iraqi Baath party could have made the same legal process claims, while leaving out the fact that you'd be slowly boiled in a vat of oil if you attempted to avail yourself of that process. We need to stop kidding ourselves. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it not real: people buying .ly names are doing business with one of the world's great dictatorships. Whether or not that's bad ethically, it sure is a dubious business decision.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    > That doesn't mean anything. The "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya" outlawed political parties 40 years ago and has been ruled by Muammar Gaddafi ever since. Agreed, but you'd have to give them the benefit of the doubt before pronouncing judgment, otherwise you can't make that statement. After their courts have let you down you could make the case that you've been duped but given the terms-of-service I would not find it totally incredible if the courts sided with the NIC for valid reasons. > The Iraqi Baath party could have made the same legal process claims, while leaving out the fact that you'd be slowly boiled in a vat of oil if you attempted to avail yourself of that process. Unlikely in this case, and we're discussing Libya, not Iraq before the removal of Saddam Hussain & his cronies. > We need to stop kidding ourselves. Just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it not real: people buying .ly names are doing business with one of the world's great dictatorships. As dictatorships come, Libya is fairly small fry. Just like in former Iraq - which we're still not discussing ;) - life for most Libyans is at a perfectly acceptable standard for the region, and they are not so upset about these things that they seem to be inclined to overthrow their government any time soon. > Whether or not that's bad ethically, it sure is a dubious business decision. Personally I would not do business with a .ly registrar exactly because I would not want to put my business at risk like that, but also because doing so effectively sustains a regime that I feel no sympathy for. I don't think that any money sent to the .ly registrars will end up to benefit the Libyan population in general, but most likely will end up in a few very select pockets or to do stuff that I do not want to be associated with.

ritonlajoie 16y ago

I find this story about vb.ly pretty interesting. First of all, I'm sorry for your loss ! :) The thing is, as many pointed out, don't expect to be able to negociate anything with Libya. I'm not saying it's a bad country or anything, but it's just how this country runs ! They do their stuff, and that's ok with me. (I'm no-one to have any concern about how the libians should run their internet). The .ly domains are pretty popular these days. Maybe because there is bit.ly which is well known, and because 'ly' is something new, and better than '.fr' for example. But maybe it's time to move on. I know, the domain is important. But vb.ly is not like smart.ly ! it's not a word. You can take any other domain from now, and your name won't change that much. Jacquesm (who I respect a lot), is saying the key bit is that they won't let anyone register this domain again. What makes me write a comment here is another 'bit', : "We as a Registry would prefer seeing art.ly used for a website about Libyan art for instance, or lda.ly used by the Libyan De-mining Association, rather than adding more URL shorteners under our National TLD." THIS, is something I really can understand. The net is something done globally, and it's not something that just can be ruled by what _we_ call the western world. The LY domain is the libian top domain. As far as I know, Libya is a country, and they so have the right to rule this domain as they wish. Maybe they want some control over it ? That's their right. They have policies different than the .com NIC registration rules, they also have the right to be different, in their .ly ruling, than what _we_ (the westerns) have done done with the .net/.com/.org domains. And maybe this call to 'we would prefer art.ly pointing to a libian art website' is maybe only PR stuff. But even in France I remember some trials about national TV's websites (france2.fr, france3.fr) that foreigners owned. These owners lost their domains due to the fact that .FR domains are made FOR FRANCE. That means, France, the country, can do whatever he wants with the .FR if you don't comply to THEIR rules. So, in short, I'm just saying I completely agree with that particular point. Libya is growing, it's going on the globalization stuff. Maybe they are right to have a control over their domains (as they SHOULD do, in my opinion). Maybe one day they will develop their tourism and will have to host websites on very important domains , related to them (on .ly). And I would not be surprised if they properly stop the renewal of some .ly domains in the idea to acquire them for themselves, in order to host art.ly, hostels.ly, etc... And you know, I would find it very _right_. edit: I accept any downvote, no worries ! I know what I am saying here is completely against freedom regarding whoever wants to squat the .ly domains ! And I know I'm actually defending what they did, and that they don't have a good reputation. Personally I hate their president/king whatever because of what he did in the past, but that's not a reason to loose it on Libya, with some racist arguments I read here, just because they modified the way we see the domain rulings :)

jrockway 16y ago

I'm offended that NIC.LY would use the expression "sex positive". It should be shut down. (Incidentally, paranoia about my domain being killed is why I have my real contact information in my .us registration. NIC.* registrars seem to be super-strict about their registration policies.)

bananaandapple 16y ago

You simply deserved to loose that domain. The lybian tld has their own set rules, you didn't obey to their TOS, so you loose your domain. If they contacted you or not, is completely irrelevant. And I guess that they did contact you, but if you would acknowledge it now, it would come out that you were lying big from the start.

ahyes 16y ago

I was more upset when goatse was shut down by the christmas island registry.