18 ms·

>that's going a bit too far into the dystopian realm. Imagine it's the year 1999 and someone tells you what flying in 2018 will be like. I expect you'd say th

>that's going a bit too far into the dystopian realm. Imagine it's the year 1999 and someone tells you what flying in 2018 will be like. I expect you'd say the exact same thing. And yet here we are. :( People will get used to any degrading inconvenience if you claim it's for their own good and are willing to pay a lot of money to get the initial momentum going.

freq_flyer_ 8y ago
Are we that far off? Granted, I was still in high school in 1999, but I fly pretty frequently for work now and while it is different on it's surface, it doesn't feel that different overall. I think part of that is the fact that the TSA is so bad at their jobs that it feels like a joke going through it. The worst part is that they know that they are a joke -- they freely admit that they miss between 70%-80% of weapons passing through.
- inetknght 8y ago
  Imagine how the kids of today will feel about the lack of internet privacy tomorrow. Growing up without something really makes you not know what you're missing; if you don't know what you're missing, it won't feel so awful when you don't have it.
  - buth_lika 8y ago
    I think it will feel awful, but in ways people cannot articulate and will blame themselves for. A tiger born in a cage who experiences nothing but being fed every now will behave and feel very much worse than a free one. Children who were never treated with respect and never saw anyone else treated with respect don't suffer less harm in their development just because they don't know the difference. I think at some very basic level, privacy is an obligatory requirement of becoming an individual person. An important part of the person grows when reflecting, when being alone with one's conscience, that's just as necessary as facing others. If you get all of either and none of the other, there's going to be a price. Or take lead for example, if we increased our average exposure by a lot, that wouldn't mean that it now doesn't damage our central nervous system and organs anymore, not even for those who never knew lower levels of exposure. You can have the negative consequences without awareness of what is going on, and without any means to make it better. A lot of the pressures already get relieved by consumerism at best, cruelty towards victims and identification with abusers at worst -- instead of being channeled towards the causes, it gets channeled towards what will make it worse. I think the rock bottom of that would a world unrecognizable even to Edgar Allan Poe.
  - machiavelli1024 8y ago
    Gosh, I misread it as "lack of internet piracy". Had a minor heart attack!
  - sametmax 8y ago
    They have no idea what privacy mean. They upload their all life on internet. The problem with privacy is not that people try to take it away. It's that most people don't care.
- poulsbohemian 8y ago
  Here's the worst part about it - if you are TSA-pre, it's really no different than travel in the '80s or '90s - you keep all your gear on, walk through a metal detector. Takes about 30 seconds. On the other hand, if you didn't pay for TSA-pre, then it could be an hour+ worth of waiting in line to go through a degrading and yes incompetently administered experience. So to my thinking it isn't even the dystopian aspect of big brother watching and prodding, it's the further disgust of big brother separating the haves and have nots. Some animals are more equal than others.
  - amf12 8y ago
    > if you are TSA-pre, it's really no different than travel in the '80s or '90s - you keep all your gear on, walk through a metal detector. Takes about 30 seconds. And here's the kicker, you can get TSA pre by paying for premium seats. At this point having non-pre passengers having to take their laptops, shoes and jackets off is just a way to inconvenience us and has nothing to do with security.
    - skgoa 8y ago
      It has always been security theater. It's meant to make people feel like a lot is being done for their security.
  - wool_gather 8y ago
    > it's really no different than travel in the '80s or '90s Don't forget that getting TSA Pre involves an in-person background check interview (complete with fingerprinting). There's no escape; you just get to decide if you want to pay to have a "not a criminal" permanent file created for you, or be treated like a criminal for free, repeatedly and in small doses.
    - godelski 8y ago
      Innocent until proven guilty, right?
- ridgeguy 8y ago
  I flew when I could exit a departure lounge and walk up mobile stairs to enter the aircraft with no screening whatsoever. Like, none. Yeah, it feels really different.
  - jalk 8y ago
    Domestic or are you talking about the sixties here?
    - ridgeguy 8y ago
      Both.
- bnjms 8y ago
  I was in junior high in 1999 and boarding is immensely different. You could go with your family to the gate or meet them upon arrival. I recall running down the exit to meet my grandparents as a child. I hear there are passes available but the feel now is all wrong. Why no one set off a bomb in a TSA cattle line I cannot understand. USA built a perfect target. I assume the TSA is some sort of jobs program but I cannot understand who benefits from it.
  - kasey_junk 8y ago
    In many airports they’ve started using contract workers for line management, machine support, etc. Those contract workers come from giant firms like Aramark.
notzuck 8y ago
By flying I assume you mean flying in the USA because I don't have any issues with Australia, Asia or Europe.
- raydev 8y ago
  Can your family give you a hug just as you enter the gate to board your plane? Because that's how it was before 9/11 in the States.
  - vanadium 8y ago
    I remember those days very, very well.
  - stephenr 8y ago
    Domestically? Last time I flew in Australia domestic flights allowed non-passengers up to the waiting area, yes.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      Flew domestically in Australia two days ago, and yep - no boarding passes needed for security. Liquids fine, no taking off shoes, no queue (and not even space for one to form). Like a whole different world.
  - gaius 8y ago
    In 1999 I had bags in the hold but had to respond to a page, by the time I had resolved the incident I had missed the flight. I was super-stressed but the check-in girl just laughed and said, get the next one, it’s fine. And it was. Can you imagine that now?
    - sunshinerag 8y ago
      whats a page? why are you responding to a page in a book?
    - jalk 8y ago

freq_flyer_ 8y ago

Are we that far off? Granted, I was still in high school in 1999, but I fly pretty frequently for work now and while it is different on it's surface, it doesn't feel that different overall. I think part of that is the fact that the TSA is so bad at their jobs that it feels like a joke going through it. The worst part is that they know that they are a joke -- they freely admit that they miss between 70%-80% of weapons passing through.

inetknght 8y ago
Imagine how the kids of today will feel about the lack of internet privacy tomorrow. Growing up without something really makes you not know what you're missing; if you don't know what you're missing, it won't feel so awful when you don't have it.
- buth_lika 8y ago
  I think it will feel awful, but in ways people cannot articulate and will blame themselves for. A tiger born in a cage who experiences nothing but being fed every now will behave and feel very much worse than a free one. Children who were never treated with respect and never saw anyone else treated with respect don't suffer less harm in their development just because they don't know the difference. I think at some very basic level, privacy is an obligatory requirement of becoming an individual person. An important part of the person grows when reflecting, when being alone with one's conscience, that's just as necessary as facing others. If you get all of either and none of the other, there's going to be a price. Or take lead for example, if we increased our average exposure by a lot, that wouldn't mean that it now doesn't damage our central nervous system and organs anymore, not even for those who never knew lower levels of exposure. You can have the negative consequences without awareness of what is going on, and without any means to make it better. A lot of the pressures already get relieved by consumerism at best, cruelty towards victims and identification with abusers at worst -- instead of being channeled towards the causes, it gets channeled towards what will make it worse. I think the rock bottom of that would a world unrecognizable even to Edgar Allan Poe.
- machiavelli1024 8y ago
  Gosh, I misread it as "lack of internet piracy". Had a minor heart attack!
- sametmax 8y ago
  They have no idea what privacy mean. They upload their all life on internet. The problem with privacy is not that people try to take it away. It's that most people don't care.
poulsbohemian 8y ago
Here's the worst part about it - if you are TSA-pre, it's really no different than travel in the '80s or '90s - you keep all your gear on, walk through a metal detector. Takes about 30 seconds. On the other hand, if you didn't pay for TSA-pre, then it could be an hour+ worth of waiting in line to go through a degrading and yes incompetently administered experience. So to my thinking it isn't even the dystopian aspect of big brother watching and prodding, it's the further disgust of big brother separating the haves and have nots. Some animals are more equal than others.
- amf12 8y ago
  > if you are TSA-pre, it's really no different than travel in the '80s or '90s - you keep all your gear on, walk through a metal detector. Takes about 30 seconds. And here's the kicker, you can get TSA pre by paying for premium seats. At this point having non-pre passengers having to take their laptops, shoes and jackets off is just a way to inconvenience us and has nothing to do with security.
  - skgoa 8y ago
    It has always been security theater. It's meant to make people feel like a lot is being done for their security.
- wool_gather 8y ago
  > it's really no different than travel in the '80s or '90s Don't forget that getting TSA Pre involves an in-person background check interview (complete with fingerprinting). There's no escape; you just get to decide if you want to pay to have a "not a criminal" permanent file created for you, or be treated like a criminal for free, repeatedly and in small doses.
  - godelski 8y ago
    Innocent until proven guilty, right?
ridgeguy 8y ago
I flew when I could exit a departure lounge and walk up mobile stairs to enter the aircraft with no screening whatsoever. Like, none. Yeah, it feels really different.
- jalk 8y ago
  Domestic or are you talking about the sixties here?
  - ridgeguy 8y ago
    Both.
bnjms 8y ago
I was in junior high in 1999 and boarding is immensely different. You could go with your family to the gate or meet them upon arrival. I recall running down the exit to meet my grandparents as a child. I hear there are passes available but the feel now is all wrong. Why no one set off a bomb in a TSA cattle line I cannot understand. USA built a perfect target. I assume the TSA is some sort of jobs program but I cannot understand who benefits from it.
- kasey_junk 8y ago
  In many airports they’ve started using contract workers for line management, machine support, etc. Those contract workers come from giant firms like Aramark.

notzuck 8y ago

By flying I assume you mean flying in the USA because I don't have any issues with Australia, Asia or Europe.

raydev 8y ago
Can your family give you a hug just as you enter the gate to board your plane? Because that's how it was before 9/11 in the States.
- vanadium 8y ago
  I remember those days very, very well.
- stephenr 8y ago
  Domestically? Last time I flew in Australia domestic flights allowed non-passengers up to the waiting area, yes.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Flew domestically in Australia two days ago, and yep - no boarding passes needed for security. Liquids fine, no taking off shoes, no queue (and not even space for one to form). Like a whole different world.
- gaius 8y ago
  In 1999 I had bags in the hold but had to respond to a page, by the time I had resolved the incident I had missed the flight. I was super-stressed but the check-in girl just laughed and said, get the next one, it’s fine. And it was. Can you imagine that now?
  - sunshinerag 8y ago
    whats a page? why are you responding to a page in a book?
  - jalk 8y ago