5 ms·

Are there going to be any consequences for this? If no, then it is such a betrayal of trust.

wwweston 8y ago
Betrayal of trust can be all part of the plan when your platform goes hand-in-hand with the idea that government is the problem rather than a solution (and you can make the best effort to prove it when you get elected).
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  That's pretty much Putin's textbook. Spread so much misinformation that people stop believing anything. That creates the climate for the strongman to come and drain the swamp.
  - chiefalchemist 8y ago
    Oh. Come on now. The system is designed for misinformation and manipulation. The difference this time was who - alledged - pulled the strings. The USA's IC has a long and not so pretty history of misinformation. The fact that you're so quick to point at Putin only proves the USA IC is as slick and effective as ever.
    - smcl 8y ago
      I believe the Putin reference isn't about the recent paranoia about Russian interference, but about a how this specific tactic was pioneered by an advisor to Putin: Vladislav Surkov A nice summary is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od4MWs7qTr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od4MWs7qTr8
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        Correct. This strategy has been used before but I mentioned Putin because he has perfected it. I see the same tendency in Trump with his "fake news".
        smcl 8y ago
        Yep - the effect is ultimately the same, however I'm not convinced that in Trump's case it is deliberate. There's a lot of talk from right that he's some visionary playing "fourth dimensional chess" but I think he's just an impulsive person who just doesn't put a great deal of thought into what he says other than the simple phrases he knows will land with his target audience ("lyin' ted", "crooked hillary", "fake news", "make america great again" etc)
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        "who just doesn't put a great deal of thought into what he says" Don't underestimate Trump. He is a brilliant propagandist. He knows exactly what he is doing when it comes to his public perception. His while career has been about selling his image.
        smolder 8y ago
        Maybe earlier in life, there's nothing brilliant coming from him now. He is old and confused and important functions are delegated. He's a symbol.
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        He certainly won the presidential election against all odds. I think that's pretty impressive. Being a good self promoter doesn't mean that you are a good president though.
        smolder 8y ago
        Crooked Hillary was a term that he was advised to use by someone at Cambridge Analytica, or they claimed to have given it to him anyway.
      - chiefalchemist 8y ago
        And I believe, with plenty of historical evidence to support it, that the USA's IC propaganda machine predates Putin's. The fact is, for example, we recently flew right past the anniversary of the Pentagon Papers and for some reason the USA MSM was more concerned with Stormy Daniels or some other pointless minutia. This is no accident. Again. Just one example. Anyone who can connect two dots can find plenty more.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
xmichael999 8y ago
If you read about Steve Bannon, his plan for years is really to have people lose faith in government agencies and have them thought of as garbage, and then ultimately shut down. I'm not sure this is some great conspiracy or just a bunch of scumbags at work here, but like I say there are major well financed efforts to actually make the FCC, EPA, etc look stupid, and appear to be run by idiots. Appointing incompetent people to them, is the plan by some of these folks like Bannon.
- reubenswartz 8y ago
  HUD, DoE (both of them), etc... ;-(
- Avshalom 8y ago
  Invoking Steve Bannon is unnecessary: "losing faith in government" has been the Republican Party goal since Nixon.
  - tasty_freeze 8y ago
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." President Ronald Reagan, in his first inaugural address.
    - WillPostForFood 8y ago
      Arguably a misquotation, probably misleading absent the context, and definitely an incomplete quotation. Speaking narrowly and specifically about the economic crisis and stagflation of the late 70s: In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people.
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        The surrounding context doesn't really change/clarify that core message very much.

Betrayal of trust can be all part of the plan when your platform goes hand-in-hand with the idea that government is the problem rather than a solution (and you can make the best effort to prove it when you get elected).

maxxxxx 8y ago
That's pretty much Putin's textbook. Spread so much misinformation that people stop believing anything. That creates the climate for the strongman to come and drain the swamp.
- chiefalchemist 8y ago
  Oh. Come on now. The system is designed for misinformation and manipulation. The difference this time was who - alledged - pulled the strings. The USA's IC has a long and not so pretty history of misinformation. The fact that you're so quick to point at Putin only proves the USA IC is as slick and effective as ever.
  - smcl 8y ago
    I believe the Putin reference isn't about the recent paranoia about Russian interference, but about a how this specific tactic was pioneered by an advisor to Putin: Vladislav Surkov A nice summary is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od4MWs7qTr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od4MWs7qTr8
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      Correct. This strategy has been used before but I mentioned Putin because he has perfected it. I see the same tendency in Trump with his "fake news".
      - smcl 8y ago
        Yep - the effect is ultimately the same, however I'm not convinced that in Trump's case it is deliberate. There's a lot of talk from right that he's some visionary playing "fourth dimensional chess" but I think he's just an impulsive person who just doesn't put a great deal of thought into what he says other than the simple phrases he knows will land with his target audience ("lyin' ted", "crooked hillary", "fake news", "make america great again" etc)
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        "who just doesn't put a great deal of thought into what he says" Don't underestimate Trump. He is a brilliant propagandist. He knows exactly what he is doing when it comes to his public perception. His while career has been about selling his image.
        smolder 8y ago
        Maybe earlier in life, there's nothing brilliant coming from him now. He is old and confused and important functions are delegated. He's a symbol.
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        He certainly won the presidential election against all odds. I think that's pretty impressive. Being a good self promoter doesn't mean that you are a good president though.
        smolder 8y ago
        Crooked Hillary was a term that he was advised to use by someone at Cambridge Analytica, or they claimed to have given it to him anyway.
    - chiefalchemist 8y ago
      And I believe, with plenty of historical evidence to support it, that the USA's IC propaganda machine predates Putin's. The fact is, for example, we recently flew right past the anniversary of the Pentagon Papers and for some reason the USA MSM was more concerned with Stormy Daniels or some other pointless minutia. This is no accident. Again. Just one example. Anyone who can connect two dots can find plenty more.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

xmichael999 8y ago

If you read about Steve Bannon, his plan for years is really to have people lose faith in government agencies and have them thought of as garbage, and then ultimately shut down. I'm not sure this is some great conspiracy or just a bunch of scumbags at work here, but like I say there are major well financed efforts to actually make the FCC, EPA, etc look stupid, and appear to be run by idiots. Appointing incompetent people to them, is the plan by some of these folks like Bannon.

reubenswartz 8y ago
HUD, DoE (both of them), etc... ;-(
Avshalom 8y ago
Invoking Steve Bannon is unnecessary: "losing faith in government" has been the Republican Party goal since Nixon.
- tasty_freeze 8y ago
  "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." President Ronald Reagan, in his first inaugural address.
  - WillPostForFood 8y ago
    Arguably a misquotation, probably misleading absent the context, and definitely an incomplete quotation. Speaking narrowly and specifically about the economic crisis and stagflation of the late 70s: In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      The surrounding context doesn't really change/clarify that core message very much.