7 ms·

To be fair to the music labels, they at least have copyright law on their side. This is more like how professional journalists whine about bloggers.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
Arg! Much better example.
lwhi 16y ago
I don't agree. I think it's probably more similar to a professional journalist complaining about another professional journalist. Or are you suggesting gap crowdsourced their identity requirements .. ?
- jimboyoungblood 16y ago
  The original post is a rebuttal to this: http://www.idsgn.org/posts/gap-turns-to-crowdsourcing/ http://www.idsgn.org/posts/gap-turns-to-crowdsourcing/
  - lwhi 16y ago
    Ah, sorry - I didn't realise. Well, I suppose this is a reasonable strategy. CP+B have done similar things, and tried to explore how crowdsourcing can create buzz (e.g. with Brammo) .. I think at one stage they even decided to ebay the services of their designers to create a sense of the agency's openness to 'new'. It does seem that aesthetics aren't the main driver behind branding decisions any more. It's impossible to stand out by having the nicest looking identity. Taking an approach like this makes sense on lots of levels, especially when marketing budgets have been reduced; create a couple of reasonably strong memes, which last long enough to seep into the public consciousness before they die .. and gain phenomenal exposure without spending too much. Gap get to create the hallowed 'relationship' with the customer by involving them their own brand 'journey'. I did make myself slightly sick after reading back over that last sentence, but to an extent I think it's true. We all build up relationships with brands over time, and the course these relationships take can be manipulated.
sv123 16y ago
or professional photographers whining about microstock.
lwhi 16y ago
Crowdsourcing involves getting many people to work for you for nothing; after which, you only pay one person. I don't think it's surprising that many people dislike the idea.
- Cushman 16y ago
  Alternately, crowdsourcing involves many people getting the chance to try their hand at something that, normally, only one person would do. I don't think it's surprising that that one person dislikes the idea.
  - lwhi 16y ago
    The argument that the designers (/entrants) benefit isn't anything other than disingenuous posturing. Crowdsourcing doesn't give many people an 'opportunity' to try something new - it provides the client with cheap design. There's a very clear motivation behind providing design in this way, and the designer is always going to lose out.
    - Cushman 16y ago
      The "designer" gets a little bit of scratch and exposure they never would have gotten otherwise. The "client" gets a design that meets their budget, and which is likely to be much better than what a professional designer would do for the same price. Who's losing out here?
      - lwhi 16y ago
        Exposure where? The rhetoric involved is an extension of the line "I can't pay you for this, but you could use it in your portfolio". The whole process reeks of exploitation. It's bullshit, imo.
        AjJi 16y ago
        Crowd sourcing doesn't mean "no pay", you should probably check some quality crowd sourcing sites, like TopCoder.
lwhi 16y ago
.. or developers who complain about work being outsourced to cheaper economies.
tel 16y ago
To be fair to designers, it's often pretty clear the stark difference in quality between a carefully designed logo/brand and a crowdsourced one. (Gap's new one is a great example). I think music and journalists (designers being grouped with journalists) are vastly different situations because of copyright law, yes. The law allowed a huge industry to grow around information asymmetry, hype, and price inflation. Journalism and graphic design seek (and work) very hard to produce things of value far greater than bloggers/crowdsource usually aspire to. That said, blogging/crowdsource have and will continue to put a great deal of pressure on those performing at the highest levels in those fields. It's simply my hope that the top performers there will justify themselves while producing perhaps a new era of relevant work. Increased competition doesn't always involve complete steamrolling, just evolution. (In fact, one evolution I could see happening is a design firm outsourcing some percentage of their own mock work to crowdsource sites. Prototypes are about instantiating the field of possibilities so you can learn about them and talk about them. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't hurt them too much to not personally generate each and every one. The real value thus becomes their professional finishing touches, the market research, etc.)

ryanwaggoner 16y ago

Arg! Much better example.

lwhi 16y ago

I don't agree. I think it's probably more similar to a professional journalist complaining about another professional journalist. Or are you suggesting gap crowdsourced their identity requirements .. ?

jimboyoungblood 16y ago
The original post is a rebuttal to this: http://www.idsgn.org/posts/gap-turns-to-crowdsourcing/ http://www.idsgn.org/posts/gap-turns-to-crowdsourcing/
- lwhi 16y ago
  Ah, sorry - I didn't realise. Well, I suppose this is a reasonable strategy. CP+B have done similar things, and tried to explore how crowdsourcing can create buzz (e.g. with Brammo) .. I think at one stage they even decided to ebay the services of their designers to create a sense of the agency's openness to 'new'. It does seem that aesthetics aren't the main driver behind branding decisions any more. It's impossible to stand out by having the nicest looking identity. Taking an approach like this makes sense on lots of levels, especially when marketing budgets have been reduced; create a couple of reasonably strong memes, which last long enough to seep into the public consciousness before they die .. and gain phenomenal exposure without spending too much. Gap get to create the hallowed 'relationship' with the customer by involving them their own brand 'journey'. I did make myself slightly sick after reading back over that last sentence, but to an extent I think it's true. We all build up relationships with brands over time, and the course these relationships take can be manipulated.

sv123 16y ago

or professional photographers whining about microstock.

lwhi 16y ago

Crowdsourcing involves getting many people to work for you for nothing; after which, you only pay one person. I don't think it's surprising that many people dislike the idea.

Cushman 16y ago
Alternately, crowdsourcing involves many people getting the chance to try their hand at something that, normally, only one person would do. I don't think it's surprising that that one person dislikes the idea.
- lwhi 16y ago
  The argument that the designers (/entrants) benefit isn't anything other than disingenuous posturing. Crowdsourcing doesn't give many people an 'opportunity' to try something new - it provides the client with cheap design. There's a very clear motivation behind providing design in this way, and the designer is always going to lose out.
  - Cushman 16y ago
    The "designer" gets a little bit of scratch and exposure they never would have gotten otherwise. The "client" gets a design that meets their budget, and which is likely to be much better than what a professional designer would do for the same price. Who's losing out here?
    - lwhi 16y ago
      Exposure where? The rhetoric involved is an extension of the line "I can't pay you for this, but you could use it in your portfolio". The whole process reeks of exploitation. It's bullshit, imo.
      - AjJi 16y ago
        Crowd sourcing doesn't mean "no pay", you should probably check some quality crowd sourcing sites, like TopCoder.

lwhi 16y ago

.. or developers who complain about work being outsourced to cheaper economies.

tel 16y ago

To be fair to designers, it's often pretty clear the stark difference in quality between a carefully designed logo/brand and a crowdsourced one. (Gap's new one is a great example). I think music and journalists (designers being grouped with journalists) are vastly different situations because of copyright law, yes. The law allowed a huge industry to grow around information asymmetry, hype, and price inflation. Journalism and graphic design seek (and work) very hard to produce things of value far greater than bloggers/crowdsource usually aspire to. That said, blogging/crowdsource have and will continue to put a great deal of pressure on those performing at the highest levels in those fields. It's simply my hope that the top performers there will justify themselves while producing perhaps a new era of relevant work. Increased competition doesn't always involve complete steamrolling, just evolution. (In fact, one evolution I could see happening is a design firm outsourcing some percentage of their own mock work to crowdsource sites. Prototypes are about instantiating the field of possibilities so you can learn about them and talk about them. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't hurt them too much to not personally generate each and every one. The real value thus becomes their professional finishing touches, the market research, etc.)