4 ms·

I'd love to switch back to running Linux on my laptop. Here's some things that aren't "but it's just different" that are stopping me (for now): - can't run app

by aroman 8y ago

I'd love to switch back to running Linux on my laptop. Here's some things that aren't "but it's just different" that are stopping me (for now): - can't run apps I depend on (e.g., Sketch.app only runs on macOS, and I I have a lot of existing files on it, and there's a lot more support for Sketch than, say, Inkscape. Other examples: Things.app, 1Password... hell, even Spotify barely works on Linux (does hi-dpi work yet?) - hardware quality & support (if my Apple laptop has an issue, I can take it into an Apple store and get it fixed same-day in many cases. also, recent keyboard issues notwithstanding, Mac laptops are generally seen has having best-in-class build quality and durability) - hardware support+power management (much better than it used to be, but depending on which laptop you choose, many people still have issues getting hardware edgecases, like suspending and resuming, adjusting the backlight based on ambient light, applying optimal power management, etc) - touchpad drivers (libinput and wayland are making progress on this front, but the experience is still not on par with Windows Precision and macOS - mobile device integration (unlock my computer with my watch, get phone texts forwarded to my laptop, make and receive calls via my phone, etc) Trust me when I say, I really wish I could move back to Linux. I spent many years helping develop a desktop linux distro. And certainly things have improved substantially since a few years ago — hiDPI support in particular is really excellent these days. But there's still a number of barriers for even technical users. At the end of the day, I want to get work done with my laptop. I don't want to fuss around with configuring and worrying what happens if an update upsets my driver compatibility (yes, I know about btrfs snapshots and kernel image caching). Just my $0.02. Sorry to be a downer.

victornomad 8y ago
- Figma works very well as an online replacent for sketch - Spotify works perfectly in linux for long time - Thinkpads have the best support ever. They even came to my home to fix it the same day I used to have Macs but made my way back to Linux (Manjaro) and happiest ever
- skykooler 8y ago
  Spotify doesn't work "perfectly" in Linux when it comes to high-DPI displays - fonts in some parts of the UI scale correctly while others don't.
- oneplane 8y ago
  Spotify doesn't work perfectly in Linux, and it's always lagging behind and does weird things. Take for example a locked screen with spotify in the background. When you wake the screen and log in, Spotify often decided to curl up in a corner of the screen because apparently it tried to get the screen size from a locked, sleeping screen, which is 0. Or maybe it was one of the 10 API's between Spotify and the screen data it wanted...
fulafel 8y ago
If you have 1-2 rarely used apps that are keeping you, you can run OS X in a VM. Legally, if you're on a Mac. In the hardware dept, people are always bringing up the issue that Linux doesn't work well on all the random laptop hardware. It's true but it's not exactly a disadvantage compared to OS X, which works well on a much smaller set of hardware.
- missjellyfish 8y ago
  Except I you want to do any pro audio work. That won‘t ever happen in a VM because of the added latency. Even using Photoshop efficiently in a VM is tiresome because at least virtualbox breaks key/mouse combos.
- e12e 8y ago
  > you can run OS X in a VM. Legally, if you're on a Mac. This is the infuriating part. You can buy an os x license - but only to run on Apple hw. So you can't legally run it on other hw. Not sure if this is really enforceable here (Norway) vs consumers due to somewhat strong consumer protection - but it's probably enforceable against businesses, which is bad enough.
curiousgal 8y ago
Spotify works perfectly on Arch. I have been using 1password with wine for over 3 years now.
- fyfy18 8y ago
  There’s also the 1Password X browser extension.
ekianjo 8y ago
Your mobile integration comment is incorrect. Thats exactly what kdeconnect does nowadays and it works perfectly with Android.
jonathonf 8y ago
> hardware quality & support > hardware support > drivers These aren't Linux issues, they're hardware issues. Pick up a decent-quality laptop which lots of developers use and support is rock-solid. Pick up a cheapo Win10 plastic thing, and yes, nothing will run great on that.
- mbreese 8y ago
  In this article the one of the first steps was replacing the WiFi card. This is a high quality hardware with good developer support. This is exactly the type of hardware you’d want to use. And the first step was to open up the laptop to swap out a part!?!?!
  - gbraad 8y ago
    Unable to open the article at the moment, but likely it got replaced with a Broadcom. macOS has a very limited set of supported wlan drivers. It is ofcourse not ideal, but understandable (and related to the issue of drivers for macOS in general).
    - mbreese 8y ago
      You’re right... it did. I’m sure Linux probably supports the built in WiFi card on this laptop too. But I remember having to do just this same thing with an older laptop to get Linux to support the WiFi chip.
miken123 8y ago
> hardware quality & support (if my Apple laptop has an issue, I can take it into an Apple store and get it fixed same-day in many cases That kind of depends on the country you are in, I guess. Here in the Netherlands you first need to make an appointment (~1 week), then they order the parts (~2-3 days), then they fix the issue (~1 week). All in all you are without your laptop for 1,5 weeks. That is really lousy support compared to something like Dell's next business day on-site support.
- oneplane 8y ago
  (Also in The Netherlands) That depends on what you want, where you have it done, and how you plan it. I usually just iMessage or call the nearest APSP or Apple Business thing whatever-it's-name-is, tell them what the problem is, and we'll have a same-day contact at their location to run it to ASD2 and order the parts at GSX, we take the hardware back and as soon as the parts arrive, which is anywhere between 1 and 4 days, we get a message or call for a same-day repair. And that's the construction for one-off issues; for business use we just migrate the user to a replacement laptop (i.e. using Migration Assistant or Time Machine and a TB2 or TB3 cable), which takes about 1 hour and then the user is done. On our side, we then mail it to whatever service provider we have under contract and we'll get it back once it's done. I suppose the difference in handling is that other vendors often have a wide open parts chain, and Apple doesn't. You can't buy them as a consumer or user, and as an APSP or AASP you can only get parts when ASD2 says there is a reason to, and you can only order them via GSX. In some cases, for example when it's a big item like a screen assembly or a mainboard, you have to send the item in first. All of that stuff takes time, and for many users, that is a reason to get next-day AppleCare support so you don't have that problem. You just get a replacement sent or someone at your door. Yes, that exists, just like with Dell and HP.
  - miken123 8y ago
    > to run it to ASD2 and order the parts at GSX, we take the hardware back and as soon as the parts arrive The AASP I contacted could not return the hardware until the repair was done, so bringing it in when the parts arrived was impossible. The Apple stores need 1 week for repairs nowadays. > a reason to get next-day AppleCare support (...) Yes, that exists, just like with Dell and HP Only for enterprise users, and it sets you back 400 EUR/yr. Dell charges 190 EUR for 3 years (in total). Quite a difference.
detaro 8y ago
You can also bring any business-class laptop to an authorized repair place if you want to do bring-in (which would be what I do for an Apple too, since the next official Apple store is quite a few hours away), and Apple not offering on-site support is a negative point for them IMHO. But these things depend on the country/how well run the respective service network is.
mark_l_watson 8y ago
+1 that is how I see it also Having integration between iPhone/iWatch/MacBook is great and I have come to accept Apple’s UI experience as definitely good enough for me. I love Linux, and do much of my day to day coding on Linux servers with far more horsepower than my laptops. Working in macOS for email, writing, research, small code experiments, etc. is fine, as is working in a few SSH shells on a server with a nice Emacs/tmux/etc. setup for development. I find that I can live without the nice JetBrains IDEs, VS Code, etc. Edit: I am nearing ‘retirement’ when I will do less software development and more writing. I am seriously considering switching to a really nice Chromebook since that would also meet my needs - so I am not permanently married to Apple.
Improvotter 8y ago
> touchpad drivers (libinput and wayland are making progress on this front, but the experience is still not on par with Windows Precision and macOS This is the only thing I need before I move to Linux on my laptop. Until then I'm sticking with Linux on my desktop and MacOS on my Macbook.

by aroman 8y ago

victornomad 8y ago

- Figma works very well as an online replacent for sketch - Spotify works perfectly in linux for long time - Thinkpads have the best support ever. They even came to my home to fix it the same day I used to have Macs but made my way back to Linux (Manjaro) and happiest ever

skykooler 8y ago
Spotify doesn't work "perfectly" in Linux when it comes to high-DPI displays - fonts in some parts of the UI scale correctly while others don't.
oneplane 8y ago
Spotify doesn't work perfectly in Linux, and it's always lagging behind and does weird things. Take for example a locked screen with spotify in the background. When you wake the screen and log in, Spotify often decided to curl up in a corner of the screen because apparently it tried to get the screen size from a locked, sleeping screen, which is 0. Or maybe it was one of the 10 API's between Spotify and the screen data it wanted...

fulafel 8y ago

If you have 1-2 rarely used apps that are keeping you, you can run OS X in a VM. Legally, if you're on a Mac. In the hardware dept, people are always bringing up the issue that Linux doesn't work well on all the random laptop hardware. It's true but it's not exactly a disadvantage compared to OS X, which works well on a much smaller set of hardware.

missjellyfish 8y ago
Except I you want to do any pro audio work. That won‘t ever happen in a VM because of the added latency. Even using Photoshop efficiently in a VM is tiresome because at least virtualbox breaks key/mouse combos.
e12e 8y ago
> you can run OS X in a VM. Legally, if you're on a Mac. This is the infuriating part. You can buy an os x license - but only to run on Apple hw. So you can't legally run it on other hw. Not sure if this is really enforceable here (Norway) vs consumers due to somewhat strong consumer protection - but it's probably enforceable against businesses, which is bad enough.

curiousgal 8y ago

Spotify works perfectly on Arch. I have been using 1password with wine for over 3 years now.

fyfy18 8y ago
There’s also the 1Password X browser extension.

ekianjo 8y ago

Your mobile integration comment is incorrect. Thats exactly what kdeconnect does nowadays and it works perfectly with Android.

jonathonf 8y ago

> hardware quality & support > hardware support > drivers These aren't Linux issues, they're hardware issues. Pick up a decent-quality laptop which lots of developers use and support is rock-solid. Pick up a cheapo Win10 plastic thing, and yes, nothing will run great on that.

mbreese 8y ago
In this article the one of the first steps was replacing the WiFi card. This is a high quality hardware with good developer support. This is exactly the type of hardware you’d want to use. And the first step was to open up the laptop to swap out a part!?!?!
- gbraad 8y ago
  Unable to open the article at the moment, but likely it got replaced with a Broadcom. macOS has a very limited set of supported wlan drivers. It is ofcourse not ideal, but understandable (and related to the issue of drivers for macOS in general).
  - mbreese 8y ago
    You’re right... it did. I’m sure Linux probably supports the built in WiFi card on this laptop too. But I remember having to do just this same thing with an older laptop to get Linux to support the WiFi chip.

miken123 8y ago

> hardware quality & support (if my Apple laptop has an issue, I can take it into an Apple store and get it fixed same-day in many cases That kind of depends on the country you are in, I guess. Here in the Netherlands you first need to make an appointment (~1 week), then they order the parts (~2-3 days), then they fix the issue (~1 week). All in all you are without your laptop for 1,5 weeks. That is really lousy support compared to something like Dell's next business day on-site support.

oneplane 8y ago
(Also in The Netherlands) That depends on what you want, where you have it done, and how you plan it. I usually just iMessage or call the nearest APSP or Apple Business thing whatever-it's-name-is, tell them what the problem is, and we'll have a same-day contact at their location to run it to ASD2 and order the parts at GSX, we take the hardware back and as soon as the parts arrive, which is anywhere between 1 and 4 days, we get a message or call for a same-day repair. And that's the construction for one-off issues; for business use we just migrate the user to a replacement laptop (i.e. using Migration Assistant or Time Machine and a TB2 or TB3 cable), which takes about 1 hour and then the user is done. On our side, we then mail it to whatever service provider we have under contract and we'll get it back once it's done. I suppose the difference in handling is that other vendors often have a wide open parts chain, and Apple doesn't. You can't buy them as a consumer or user, and as an APSP or AASP you can only get parts when ASD2 says there is a reason to, and you can only order them via GSX. In some cases, for example when it's a big item like a screen assembly or a mainboard, you have to send the item in first. All of that stuff takes time, and for many users, that is a reason to get next-day AppleCare support so you don't have that problem. You just get a replacement sent or someone at your door. Yes, that exists, just like with Dell and HP.
- miken123 8y ago
  > to run it to ASD2 and order the parts at GSX, we take the hardware back and as soon as the parts arrive The AASP I contacted could not return the hardware until the repair was done, so bringing it in when the parts arrived was impossible. The Apple stores need 1 week for repairs nowadays. > a reason to get next-day AppleCare support (...) Yes, that exists, just like with Dell and HP Only for enterprise users, and it sets you back 400 EUR/yr. Dell charges 190 EUR for 3 years (in total). Quite a difference.

detaro 8y ago

You can also bring any business-class laptop to an authorized repair place if you want to do bring-in (which would be what I do for an Apple too, since the next official Apple store is quite a few hours away), and Apple not offering on-site support is a negative point for them IMHO. But these things depend on the country/how well run the respective service network is.

mark_l_watson 8y ago

+1 that is how I see it also Having integration between iPhone/iWatch/MacBook is great and I have come to accept Apple’s UI experience as definitely good enough for me. I love Linux, and do much of my day to day coding on Linux servers with far more horsepower than my laptops. Working in macOS for email, writing, research, small code experiments, etc. is fine, as is working in a few SSH shells on a server with a nice Emacs/tmux/etc. setup for development. I find that I can live without the nice JetBrains IDEs, VS Code, etc. Edit: I am nearing ‘retirement’ when I will do less software development and more writing. I am seriously considering switching to a really nice Chromebook since that would also meet my needs - so I am not permanently married to Apple.

Improvotter 8y ago

> touchpad drivers (libinput and wayland are making progress on this front, but the experience is still not on par with Windows Precision and macOS This is the only thing I need before I move to Linux on my laptop. Until then I'm sticking with Linux on my desktop and MacOS on my Macbook.