14 ms·

Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

• evanagon 8y ago
  "Decades of research substantiate the devastating effects of social isolation. Loneliness is equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day and increases the risk of death by 26-45%, which is on par with risk factors such as high blood pressure, obesity, and lack of exercise."
  • ronnier 8y ago
    It would be interesting to know if men are more lonely than women as everything I've seen has shown that it's easier for women to join social circles and find dates whereas most men struggle with this. As a result, I wonder if this connects to the much high suicide rate for men.
    • nyokodo 8y ago
      Women attempt suicide at a rate 40 to 60% higher than men. Men on the other hand die at a greater rate because of the greater use of lethal means like guns etc. It still may be that loneliness is a greater factor in male depression but gender differences in suicide rates are misleading indicators.
      • PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
        I've always wondered just how reliable the suicide stat is because once someone commits suicide, they are no longer able to attempt it. It's kinda like how one has to be careful measuring people interviewing for jobs, since someone who interviews poorly will spend many interviews before being hired but someone who interviews well will only do a few (on average). So measuring the average ability of the candidate in interviews will be worse than the average ability of people who have been interviewed.
    • pseudoramble 8y ago
      There is an episode of Hidden Brain which touches on this subject, though I don't remember if it mentions any sort of measured differences between men and women. Either way, it is a neat discussion on the topic. https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-problem-how-american-masculinity-creates-lonely-men https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-prob....
    • magduf 8y ago
      Just from looking at Meetup.com, I see all kinds of social groups just for women in my metro area, but I never see such things for men. There's social groups for everyone, and social groups just for women, and also social groups just for particular little subgroups (LGBT, [religion], etc.). I think there's something to this. Another thing I've noticed is how many urban women get their exercise from "classes": barre, yoga, pilates, "orange theory", etc. Go into one of these and you probably won't see a single male there.
      • watwut 8y ago
        There are box clubs, amateur soccer clubs, boardgames meetups, tech meetups etc. They are not male only, but mostly males go there. I have also seen craft classes with appeal to men or with 50-50 split among members. A community tends to form around it. Yoga and pilates attracts mostly women, but they won't kick out males either (as in, I seen guys there, but like 1-2 for full class of women).
    • probe 8y ago
      I don’t have the study on me but there is evidence for that. The key I remember is that men bond over EXPERIENCES and doing things together, while for female-female (and male-female) interactions, just talking on the phone and catching up works. It changed how I approached some of my relationships (ex. Catch up with a male friend over a sport/activity vs over coffee)
      • watwut 8y ago
        The problem with activity based socialization strategy is that it starts failing when you have less time, get sick, weak or whatever else that prevents you or your friends to regularly do the choosen activity. As in, it is easier, you don't have to think hard about topics nor listen to boring parts, it helps smooth over personal differences at least to me and activity inviation makes things less weird (I even considered it superior). But it failed me in some life situations and left me having really hard time to find socialization. When I thought about it afterwards, maybe the mistake is to treat your socialization strategy as something inflexible "I do it that way" instead it is set of skills, habits and decisions that can be learned and tested.
  • asdfasdfdavid 8y ago
    Also interesting, 18- to 22-year-olds are the loneliest subgroup.
  • watwut 8y ago
    Social isolation and loneliness is not the same. When you work with people you don't like much, you are lonely but not isolated.
• Simulacra 8y ago
  I'm curious if this is a direct result of the internet and smartphones. The two make us feel more connected, more global, but I think it makes us more isolated. I miss talking to my friends on the phone, and hanging out in the 90s. Everything, especially how humans interact, is so digital today.
  • agumonkey 8y ago
    Could be a change in reference frame, facebook did make be super depressed because I kept seeing others photographic happiness. I'm not more social these days but being off social networks I spend a lot less time ruminating over it and do other things (even walking out).
  • JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    > The two make us feel more connected, more global, but I think it makes us more isolated. My wife and I had this discussion the other day. Messaging or posting on FB or whatever is very flat. There's no depth to it at all. It doesn't replace hearing a loved one's voice or looking into their eyes or hugging them or even having a meal with them. When you go and you visit them and you see them, you realize how much you're missing and, yeah, it feels very isolating to realize that. Social media is a facade.
    • QualityReboot 8y ago
      Maybe so, but when I'm done with work, I hang out with my bros and play games on Discord (before that it was Ventrilo/Mumble/TeamSpeak). It may not be face to face interaction, but we're super social and it's great for us. We're always meeting new people and having new voice interactions, which at least for me, is as good (or better) than hanging out IRL. It's still nice to meet up sometimes, but definitely not needed to avoid loneliness. It's not like I touch my friends much when we're meeting up IRL anyway, and voice is more comfortable to me than being on video (or being visible irl), as I don't have to think about how I carry myself. Tons of gamers do this and I don't think many of them are in the "lonely" camp. I'm not sure why voice channels haven't seen wider adoption outside of gaming.
    • 8y ago
• agumonkey 8y ago
  Theory: human relationships can be hard, very hard, and any technology that confuses one into thinking he can enjoy his time without the 'burden' of human interactions is pushing this issue deeper.
  • ZeroBugBounce 8y ago
    I think of this theory like how lead poisoning works, where the lead can pass through the blood–brain barrier and substitute in (poorly) for calcium, causing all sorts of toxicity effects. Or how drinking sea water can fool your throat for a second into thinking you've taken care of your thirst. Online social interactions are plentiful and easy and often don't as quickly or sharply trigger social anxiety. But they are a toxic replacement if you don't get any real interaction with your fellow humans.
    • agumonkey 8y ago
      at least lead has no intent, but western culture (and now even more than western) is all about making things easier and easier. That's the only metric. It's turning us into sick vegetables. And we pay for it.
    • chillacy 8y ago
      The other day I raised my hand to high five a stranger in a dance event and she didn’t notice and passed the other way. I remarked how I haven’t felt something like that in awhile. Imagine if you had to watch everyone left swipe you in tinder or reject your resume personally.
• wmichelin 8y ago
  Has anyone else noticed that clicking on this link causes them to be logged in as "Pam" on the site? That doesn't seem great...
  • lainga 8y ago
    It persists when you move to other pages, too, although it's not obvious from the site what opportunities, if any, this newfound Pamhood presents. EDIT: going to "manage your subscriptions" presents you with a login page, so no danger.
    • news_to_me 8y ago
      It looks like all the pages with personal info or settings are behind a login screen. Rest easy, Pam.
    • cdiddy2 8y ago
      It allows you to logout of Pam. That seems to be it from a quick glance
      • SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        But it does nothing. You load the link again and you are once again a member of the Pamstalt.
        • s73v3r_ 8y ago
          It's like a Sparticus thing. "I am Pam."
  • netrap 8y ago
    Haha, I see it also: xxxxxxx@xxxxxx.com Luckily it asked for a login when I went to the profile.
  • patorjk 8y ago
    URL should probably be changed to: https://www.advisory.com/research/care-transformation-center/care-transformation-center-blog/2018/07/loneliness-epidemic https://www.advisory.com/research/care-transformation-center... Looks like the original URL came from a daily briefing email.
• Rotdhizon 8y ago
  I think a huge factor is the growing theme of social interaction being unacceptable. Back in the day you could walk up to and make friends with almost anyone, it wasn't weird to interact with strangers, thus making new acquaintances. Modern society stigmatizes that kind of interaction, don't talk to people you don't know if you don't want to be ostracized. You could want to befriend someone in a crowd, but come up with no good ways to go about the situation. See someone wearing a cool jacket and you decide you want to be their friend > Go up and introduce yourself > See almost every single person in the immediate area turn and spectate the interaction, instantly judging you as out of the ordinary. Really stretching the topic, even getting contact information is more difficult these days. 20 years ago you could meet someone, and they'd have no issue giving out their home telephone number. You'd ring them up and you could schedule to see a movie. Nowadays you are considered suspicious if you ask for someones phone number. I know people today that will absolutely not give out their phone number to anyone other than immediate family.If you are their friend and want to contact them, you have to do it over a social app like IG. That and it can be hard to find people you fit in with well due to the rise of the internet and people staying inside. If you are a hermit and enjoy other hermits, you won't find them by going outside. Which means you are then stuck with trying to meet people online, and introducing yourself online is even harder than it is in person and met with the same hostility. I'm talking about guy > guy and girl > girl here. It's a whole different level of hell trying to befriend someone of the opposite sex these days. Most people assume you either want something sexual or unusual, not just friendship.
  • fipple 8y ago
    Part of that is social interaction being less necessary. My dad made many friends asking random people on the street for directions to a gas station or for a restaurant recommendation. Now we get that all from our phones.
    • ohyes 8y ago
      indeed, Steve Jobs should have called it the iFriend, the only friend you need...
    • Nav_Panel 8y ago
• aurailious 8y ago
  I know what half I am in.
• coryfklein 8y ago
  For a long time I've been wanting a "Tinder For Platonic Adults" app. I'm not looking for romance or sex, but I want to find nearby matches with similar interests; do you drink, play board games, are you married, how many kids and what age? There are likely tens of matches for me within a 5 minute drive, I just don't know how to find them. I'm a friendly guy and would love to have that friend that feels comfortable stopping by unannounced or that I can share my latest batch of cheesecake with. I'd love to have regular friendly gatherings nearly every weekend. Literally the only thing stopping me is the first step of connecting. Once I'm there I can easily deal with step 2: "dating" the field to find a decent practical match with mutual interest in the relationship.
  • gf263 8y ago
    Try Bumble's BFF feature
    • untog 8y ago
      IMO it would ideally be separate from any dating app. Not just because of profile overlap, but also because as a married man I really don't want Bumble to be on the home screen of my phone. No matter how innocent my use of it, I wouldn't want anyone to see it on my phone and get a bad impression of me as a result.
      • Skrillex 8y ago
        I am of the opinion that the choice between an app that signals "I want/need friends" and "I am interested in hookups" would not be an easy one, even if one's usage is innocent.
      • toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Consider that you’re depriving yourself of possible friendships because of other people’s unreasonable judgements about you without having any context. As long as your partner is aware and okay with it, ignore what others think.
• narrator 8y ago
  What is the opposite of lonely though? Popular? Not to get all high school angsty, but I bet popular people, of the Instagram famous people variety, are much more popular than they would have been in previous eras given their expanded reach. Perhaps this is the dark side of Internet fame: Increasing real world obscurity for everyone else. In previous eras, simple proximity counted for something. Now, it doesn't matter and is even a negative with all the drama around workplace dating for example.
  • grasshopperpurp 8y ago
    Companionship or fellowship would be the primary opposites. Popular people don't necessarily have these, and they can still be lonely. I was very popular in high school, and I have far, far fewer friends today, but I'm less lonely because of the level of my friendships - to use my self as an example.
• karmakaze 8y ago
  > 46% of Americans report sometimes or always feeling alone I would choose this answer but wouldn't say I'm lonely. 46% is no surprise. What percentage responded usually/always lonely? What is significant are the othet equivalent health risks.
• ThrustVectoring 8y ago
  Agriculture was a mistake.
  • mbrock 8y ago
    We should never have crawled out of the ocean!
    • acheron 8y ago
      In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
• grasshopperpurp 8y ago
  Many reasons for this, and many good ones have already been noted, but I haven't seen anyone mention time yet. Americans work a lot. If you don't make friends at work, or you don't maintain friendships from high school or college, you're working on limited time and energy - as are the people you hope to befriend (though you don't know who they are yet). If you have a family, it's even harder. I don't have kids, and while I don't have a ton of friends, I'm lucky to have some good, close friends, who I don't (imo) have enough time for and don't get to see enough.
  • ryandrake 8y ago
    > Many reasons for this, and many good ones have already been noted, but I haven't seen anyone mention time yet. Americans work a lot. This one is kind of easy. I work A LOT too, but when I’m not, I’m also not: 1. Sitting at the computer, 2. Watching TV/Netflix, 3. Buried in my phone playing Candy Crush A lot of things I used to say I couldn’t do, I started doing—purely by turning off the screens.
  • TangoTrotFox 8y ago
    Here [1] is a list of nations by hours worked. The US average is just about squarely average here. The OECD average is 1763 hours per year. Americans work 26 hours longer than that per year, so half an hour per week, less than 5 minutes a day, longer. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time#Average_annual_hours_actually_worked_per_worker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time#Average_annual_ho...
  • lpcam33 8y ago
    One think that can lead to loneliness is material abundance namely the abundance of houses. Here in Portugal we have 40% more houses than families. For instance the building that I live has 8 apartments and it was build 60 years ago. I have some neighbors that live here since the beginning. They told me there was a time it had 50 residents. Now there are only ten residents. We are so surrounded by abundance that we are more and more apart from each other. But we cannot stop building houses because that would mean less jobs and the end of economic growth.
• tc7 8y ago
  Are Americans outliers in loneliness? I know Pinker mentions this in Enlightenment Now, but I feel like it's glossed over a bit since it doesn't really align with his thesis. I'm very interested in the reasons for this, though. Loss of community structures without replacements? (Wider spread families for work, not going to church...)
• nix0n 8y ago
  I'm surprised to learn that more than half of Americans rarely or never feel alone.
  • massysett 8y ago
    Agreed; it is a ridiculous and alarmist leap for this piece to go from 46 percent “sometimes feel alone” to 46 percent are lonely. One can be alone by choice and actually like it. “Lonely” connotates depression resulting from being alone.
• Nav_Panel 8y ago
  Incredible how the subtext here is "loneliness requires healthcare" rather than, say, "loneliness requires coordinated social change". Almost as if the goal is "how can we frame loneliness as an illness and reap some sweet insurance money."
  • bertjk 8y ago
    I kind of agree with you, but what does positive "coordinated social change" look like? I can only think of negative ones, like those that occurred with radical political changes, or else explicit/thinly-veiled marketing campaigns for consumer goods..
    • sp332 8y ago
      Well, we wash our hands a lot more often now than we did before the germ theory of disease caught on.
    • Nav_Panel 8y ago
      That's a great question and I've been trying to figure it out myself for a while. I oscillate between "technology has given us new ways to connect and we just need to leverage them" and "technology broke our existing coordination mechanisms and replaced them with something fundamentally worse for human well-being." I do think a backlash is already underway against Facebook, at least. This is a step in the right direction, as social media seems to intensity loneliness. The internet can be a tool for community-building -- I see other comments mentioning meetup.com, and I've met many people through Twitter and other online social channels -- but none of the solutions (by my estimation) seem quite there yet in terms of helping people find groups that might suit them and providing a means for keeping people together long-term. I actually think the most important solutions rest primarily in land use. The "new urbanism" ideas of walkability and mixed-use buildings seem to encourage more casual interactions (which ultimately becomes deeper interaction over time) as people live their lives. On the other hand, I live in Manhattan and I'm still lonely. It's hard to say what will work.
    • opnitro 8y ago
      Radical political changes were universally negative? Many of those radical movements had extremely positive effects, such as labor laws and civil rights. These movements were radical partially because of the tremendous material support in keeping the status quo.
• awacs 8y ago
  The country being so politically polarized isn't helping. It's to the point where most only want to socialize with people in the same "tribe". For better or worse.
  • magduf 8y ago
    It's not great, and I think it shows our society is fracturing and collapsing, but I don't want to socialize much with any Trump voters either. I have enough problems; I don't need someone spouting insane conspiracy theories to me about how 9/11 was "an inside job", Sandy Hook never happened, etc.
    • philipodonnell 8y ago
      > I don't need someone spouting insane conspiracy theories to me Perhaps, but it may also help that person realize there are normal people in real life who don't share those ideas, despite being told that anyone they disagree with is a horrible person.
      • s73v3r_ 8y ago
        Perhaps, but that's not my job. I value my sanity too much to try and get them to understand those things are bunk.
      • magduf 8y ago
        This is just like spending a bunch of time with religious zealots trying to convince them their religion is wrong. You're wasting your time, and you're just going to create more conflict. I have one Trump supporter in my social circle and when conversations veer that way with her it's never productive so I completely avoid it. The bottom line is you cannot use logic to convince people their religious beliefs are wrong. Most rational people already know this about religions and religious people, the problem is they don't realize that right-wing politics (or any extremist politics for that matter) is also a religion. Now before you try to argue that this only applies to the extremists, the problem in this country is that the entire right wing in this country is extremist. The only non-extremist position in this country is the mainstream Democratic party, which is basically center-right. The Republicans have gone full-on hard-right, so there's just no reasoning with anyone that buys into that stuff.
• cwbrandsma 8y ago
  Long term effects of stranger danger writ large.
• rellui 8y ago
  I think the increased efficiency brought by technology produced an ever faster pace in work, social life, and just about everything else. It takes time to talk and connect with another person which is getting harder to come by. Most of the time, you're getting swept away doing work, looking at a post that just showed up, reading the latest tweet by the president, etc.
• kazinator 8y ago
  Schizos Are Never Alone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfVowvsqYXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfVowvsqYXg
• gwbas1c 8y ago
  Honestly, I've never had problems talking to random strangers. Some of my best friends were random strangers at first. IMO, the problem has nothing to do with the internet. Instead, the problem has more to do with poorly controlling marketing and homelessness. Political correctness also takes a toll. When I lived in the Bay Area, most of the time I was randomly approached, "on the street," it was from a homeless person. Thus, I was less likely to be friendly to someone when I was in areas with high amounts of homeless people. If the Bay Area took care of the homeless situation better, there would be less people approaching me, and then it would be easier to interact with strangers. But then, what about being in stores, malls, ect? I then need to put up defenses against aggressive marketing. That also makes it hard to be friendly. If we considered unsolicited marketing as insulting, we wouldn't need to keep our defenses up in places of commerce. Even political correctness takes a toll. If I start talking with someone who has a different opinion than me, or is a difference race than me, faux pas get blown out of proportion. No one wants to make friends with someone who's going to scream at them for being a bigot because they lean a little right, or be labeled a libtard because they lean a little left.
  • dunpeal 8y ago
    > But then, what about being in stores, malls, ect? I then need to put up defenses against aggressive marketing. There's aggressive marketing in the street too. Most often when someone approaches me on the street, they're trying to get money out of me. Either they're panhandlers, or they're selling me something, or seeking donations of some sort - which are all really the same thing. The only exception is if they want to influence me in some way, i.e. they want my vote. So ultimately, strangers approaching us in public areas are looking to get something out of us. They're not looking for a reciprocal social relationship. They're looking to get something: money, votes, support for their cause. I do agree that it's a big part of the reason why Americans don't make social connections in public areas. I'm not sure about the solution though. The biggest problem in most places I lived was the panhandlers, and that's a big problem that causes a lot of issues in general, and doesn't seem to have a good solution.
    • wool_gather 8y ago
• sbilstein 8y ago
  My startup is trying to solve this problem for older adults. Seniors often feel disconnected and isolated as their social structures change. Ayuda is an service for finding senior-friendly events. We bring artists, educators, musicians and more to an audience they may not have considered before. Events are curated to be social and accessible for older people, not your typical concert in a loud bar. Check us out on www.ayudacare.com if you are interested in what we're about.
• dunpeal 8y ago
  > Few providers have focused on the loneliest population: 18- to 22-year-olds. While typically a low-risk population, young adults experience rates of loneliness and social isolation far higher than any other age group according to Cigna's recent survey. How is that the case? 18-to-22 seems like the easiest stage of adult life to make and keep friends. These are the youngest adults. They go out regularly, meet each other in public venues like clubs and bars, they're often actively dating, especially now with the ubiquity of apps like Tinder. Add to that the fact that they generally either just graduated highschool, or are attending college. College is probably the easiest place to make friends: you spend your entire life there with people your age who are intellectually compatible with you. I don't know how they did that survey, but in my experience 18-22 year olds tend to have the most friends and active social lives of all adult ages. Now, compare that to professionals who often have to relocate for work, and find themselves in a new location where they know nobody. There aren't really many social facilities to help these people make new friends. So I really don't know how they arrived at the conclusion that 18-22s are the loneliest ages. The older people I know, especially in their 30s and 40s, are more prone to social isolation in every respect.
  • randcraw 8y ago
    You probably don't know them, but single/divorced retirees are probably the loneliest folks. With no workplace to provide daily social exchange, unless they belong to a church, meeting others in a social setting becomes a huge challenge for seniors today. It's little wonder that the long venerated "joys of being retired" are undergoing a major rethink these days.
    • dunpeal 8y ago
      Oh, yeah, I absolutely agree. Generally, as I become familiar with older populations, the general rule seems has been that the older people get, the harder it is for them to break out of the shell of loneliness. When I left college and started meeting young professionals, they seemed far more lonely than college students. Then when I started meeting older people in their 30s, they seemed lonelier still. Now the loneliest people I know are singles in their 40s. The only exception seems to be that often people in their 30s get married, and then they typically seem less lonely, at least while the marriage is working. For singles, though, there seems to be simple linear correlation between age and loneliness. So I'm sure when I get to know people in their 50s and 60s, they'll be even lonelier than the 40 year old singles I know now.
• brightball 8y ago
  I don't want to put to fine a point on this...but...good? Loneliness eventually becomes a motivator to find ways to stop being lonely. Usually that means improving yourself and coming to terms with some of your own faults so that you can stop being lonely. Sometimes it means being nicer to people. Sometimes it means making yourself get up the courage to go talk to that girl over there. Sometimes it means trying to get in better shape. There are a lot of side effects from it, but you have to decide you are going to fix it and sometimes that means being lonely enough for it to no longer be tolerable.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• fmfamaral 8y ago
  18 to 22 is the worst? Wow. That was unexpected!
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
• eatorlaef 8y ago
  I've never had a relationship and I think over 30 it's really hard to find one (especially if you never had one so don't have the "how to experience"). Everyone is either already married, or already divorced with kids, or just out of your league. The married part also has another effect: you won't get invited to a lot of events where people socialize, say a kids birthday party where the parents also come together. Also I think it's a personal thing but I don't even try to make contact with anyone because of the whole climate of our society. Obviously it's divided and that's really bad on its own but I think about things like mansplaining. Basically you are reminded everywhere how bad it is and I agree on that but as an anxious person it makes even more less willing to make contact because I always have that thought of what if you are a doing something wrong, you will be accused of something etc. Yeah reading back my comment doesnt really make any sense but... I feel that some people, some of us just meant to be forever alone for good or bad
  • mLuby 8y ago
    People have relationships at all ages. Not having had one doesn't make it more difficult to find one. That said, making friendly eye contact is pretty essential to socializing; it's a habit you can improve with practice and analysis. Just because hostile, misanthropic media garners the most attention doesn't mean most people aren't friendly or at least polite in person. Good luck! :)
  • jimmies 8y ago
    I've never had a relationship until 25. I had all the bad luck when it comes to genetics and upbringing. At the time of 25, I just learned to drive and had my first beater 15-year-old car. I made lots of great friends when giving rides to Wal-mart to friends who are fellow international graduate students on that shitty car. I just made up bullshit reasons for me to go to Wal-mart every weekend and asked them if they want to tag along. Many were too shy to bother others, and would totally appreciate someone who would offer them a ride. I sort of became the go-to person when people needed a ride (friendship came with a cost, who would have guessed right?). One day, I was asked to give a student a ride from the airport two hours away because she couldn't ask anyone else to help. We became good friends after the ride I gave her and we developed a great relationship two years after. There is a lot of stuff like that you can do to help others and maybe help yourself. You can volunteer in a place if you don't know where to begin. When you find yourself to be useful and kind to others, oh strangely, people will see that too. >less willing to make contact because I always have that thought of what if you are a doing something wrong, you will be accused of something etc. While some people are a pain in the ass, you will find most to be friendly and understanding when you're genuine. Don't be afraid of stories you read online of judgments and lawsuits. I found myself in a strange situation when I just had nothing to lose and I did many things against the advice to protect myself from being vulnerable and potentially receiving the short end of the stick. I have turned my life around doing just that. While I did indeed occasionally receive the short end of the stick, I have gained so many great friends and stories that totally made it worth it.
• irrational 8y ago
  I've noticed that most people have headphones on when they are out and about. It's a lot harder to strike up casual conversations with people that have headphones on.
• buzzert 8y ago
  I was listening to a podcast recently where this topic came up with regards to the social pastime of jury duty. A man was being interviewed who lived during a time before smartphones, and he retold that he really enjoyed going to jury duty because it was a chance for him to get to meet people in his city from all different backgrounds. There was a lot of waiting around, so people always talked to each other out of boredom. Now, whenever you go to jury duty and there's a waiting period of some sort, everyone is of course on their smartphones. The reason for this isn't just for the fact that there might be more interesting things happening on the web than in the quiet courtroom, but instead it's because the smartphone generation can "hang out" with people exactly like them 24/7. To me it seems like a cold optimization of your social graph aided by technology. It does some wonders for loneliness (it's amazing that I can hang out with my friends anywhere in the world at any time and they all have the same interests as me), but it's also causing a lot of deep societal problems. Echo chambers, de-emphasis on local affairs, an ever-widening gap of political viewpoints, and a horrible "grass is always greener" psychological effect.
• claydavisss 8y ago
  Another sad downside to people fetishizing work...and the wealth that apparently results. Right now people are just alone and grumbling, but give it another ten years and you will see this morph into alcoholism and/or drug abuse. Only a very few will be happy in a society where every interaction is a dick-measuring contest or chance to argue. It's not too late to move to a hick town, find a spouse, pop out some kids and go to church/temple/mosque (no one gives a shit if you actually believe, it's about being around your neighbors). You will probably end up doing just as well financially as tech workers in SF who are doomed to be lifelong renters. You will definitely be happier.
  • koboll 8y ago
    >give it another ten years and you will see this morph into alcoholism and/or drug abuse Have you looked at rates of alcohol and opiate abuse recently? It's already happening.
  • sp332 8y ago
    I don't really get how moving to a more rural locale would make people less lonely. Looks like suicides among young people are way higher there https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2195006 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/... and people there are about equally likely to report being "connected" to their communities. https://qz.com/1286591/urban-and-rural-america-people-living-in-cities-are-not-any-more-lonely-and-depressed-than-everyone-else/ https://qz.com/1286591/urban-and-rural-america-people-living...
  • pnathan 8y ago
    I've gone from "hick town" and going to church to cities (and going to church). Everything is better except for the light pollution.
• bariswheel 8y ago
  Being alone is a state, feeling lonely is a symptom that could be triggered by it, but not necessarily. Important distinction here. Warren Buffett spent most of his waking hours reading by himself. He's pushing 90. If you watch his HBO documentary notice how he is very big on shutting his office door and reading for the majority of his workday. If you are not peace when you are alone, there is something else going on that needs attention, listen to it, understand what might trigger that symptom and root cause it. Being with someone else might be a stopgap to your symptom but not a cure.
• deleted 8y ago
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• sxp62000 8y ago
  In NYC, where I live, I would never strike up a conversation with a random stranger. The first thought that crosses my mind is, "oh they're probably on their way to work", or "they seem busy on their phone", etc. Our smartphones, tablets, headphones definitely make us less approachable. But our attitudes towards work is also to blame. There is this culture of being busy in NYC all the time, it's almost as if people take pride in it. This probably shows in our body language too. I feel especially alone on crowded trains. Everybody is staring at their phones or trying really hard to not make eye contact. No wonder a lot of out-of-towners feel NYC is an intimidating place and the people are rude.
  • throwaway427 8y ago
    I lived in NYC for ten years, bars are where you can talk to random strangers. I had hundreds of conversations and met many people that way.
    • sxp62000 8y ago
      Liquid courage helps of course.
    • quotemstr 8y ago
      I used to live next to a bar. A few times a week, I'd take my laptop down there, grab a beer, maybe order dinner, and code. Over a year or so of doing that, I think maybe two or three people attempted to strike up conversations. Now, that might be a side effect of working on a laptop, or it might be the famously insular Seattle culture, but it still feels like a very low rate of spontaneous personal connection. Going by old movies at least, it seems like pre-information-age, you'd expect to see far more social interaction in a setting like that.
  • pnathan 8y ago
    When we visited NYC a few years ago, I thought NYC was one of the friendliest places in the USA I'd ever been. And I've been to the midwest, san francisco, the pacific NW, the southwest, and the DC area. We took the subway and the bus, walked here and there, looked lost every now and then... people offered to help periodically, happily chatted on the subway... it was extremely impressive and we definitely would be up for living there sometime just based on how nice people were. There was a no-bs attitude which was refreshing, but they were also kind to the derpy tourists we were, in ways I'd never expect in Seattle.
• androidgirl 8y ago
  I'm 21 years old, I grew up online. I started on myspace and chat via gmail, eventually moving to Facebook. Fast forward through an early highschool graduation, and taking most college classes online: I have no idea how on Earth I am to socialize with people in the real world. I quit and deactivated Facebook in January, and since I have felt so truly alone. Each day I ride an uber to my dev job, work mostly by myself, then ride back to my apartment. I speak with my coworkers, but all business, and rarely speak with the drivers because it feels so awkward and strange. To me, it feels like it's going to get worse. I am personally upset that my abilities to connect with other people my age feels so stunted because of the Web. And now, kids in this school district use smartphones in 6th grade. A lot of this is likely bias, my mental health is really suffering, and I've bounced in and out of therapy for awhile. So take it with a grain of salt.
  • Torwald 8y ago
    > rarely speak with the drivers because it feels so awkward and strange If you decide to not do something just because it feels strange, you will limit your growth in many ways. Everything you haven't done very often feels strange. Step out of your so-called comfort zone, make that a habit.
    • swiley 8y ago
      You do have to be careful with this, There are plenty of things that feel awkward or strange for good reasons.
    • androidgirl 8y ago
      Entirely fair criticism and I am aware that the isolation I am in is self imposed, at least to a degree! Thank you. I am reasonably good at pushing myself at other things, like my career or learning new things. I just need to take that step with my social anxiety as well.
      • nshelly 8y ago
        Is there a form of exercise you enjoy? Even walking is fine. Put on a podcast and go for a stroll (longer the better). Then afterwards, use the momentum and sense of accomplishment to push yourself to try something "strange" or out of your comfort zone. I think with Uber/Lyft drivers, I agree that the conversation in the car is very fleeting, so it's important to invest and try to build new relationships that will be more long-lasting (e.g. like a sports club, board games group, book groups, etc).
• m23khan 8y ago
  Internet is the culprit - as humans we have replaced interacting in physical world with a digital world and thus the physical world is becoming more and more of a barren place when it comes to social interaction. In modern society, unless it is a dedicated club of some sorts or at a party or if it is pre-arranged, social interactions just don't happen.
• avallark 8y ago
  At least its good to know that you are not alone.
• chiefalchemist 8y ago
  I find the smoking refence in the opening paragraph ironic. I'm what i would call a social smoker. I can smoke and (thus far) not get addicted. But I hardly smoke. It's mainly a "oh...you're going for a smoke...mind if I join you...and bum one..." type of "habit." It's away to have a brief moment of QT with someone. Taking it a step further, I wonder how much __good__ bacteria used to be exchanged between smokers, that also doesn't happen anymore.
• GiraffeGlove 8y ago
  Not too long ago I listened to a really great podcast, The Lonely American Man [https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-problem-how-american-masculinity-creates-lonely-men https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-prob...] that I thought really hit the nail on the head for a lot of men I know. Based on societal norms we men tend to lose our ability to make friends as we grow beyond our teens and turn to our female partners to arrange social activity for us.
• sicromoft 8y ago
  While loneliness is a real and important problem, there's good reason to be skeptical about it being an "epidemic". The Cigna study is incredibly flawed: http://andrewgelman.com/2018/05/09/43-loneliest-number-youll-ever/ http://andrewgelman.com/2018/05/09/43-loneliest-number-youll... Journalists (like David Brooks in the New York Times) are getting it very wrong as well: http://andrewgelman.com/2018/05/16/no-no-epidemic-loneliness-dog-bites-man-david-brooks-runs-another-column-based-fake-stats/ http://andrewgelman.com/2018/05/16/no-no-epidemic-loneliness...
• deleted 8y ago
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• davesque 8y ago
  I know there could be a lot of causes for this but one thing I've noticed, which is specific to my location, is that too much cultural homogeneity can lead to loneliness. I remember clearly a time in my life when I was very lonely and having a lot of trouble meeting people. Eventually, I crafted a theory that most of the people in my environment secretly did not want to meet anyone. This was either because they already had busy lives or they just didn't need to know yet another person who was just like them. Shortly thereafter, I went back to university and encountered a lot of exchange students who were perhaps legitimately in need of friends and perhaps also coming from cultures which tended to be much less closed off to casual friendliness. This fixed the loneliness problem for me very quickly. Of course, it must also be acknowledged that the environment in university tends to facilitate social activity.
• prewett 8y ago
  We've designed ourselves into isolation. We leave our house in a metal box, arrive at work, then return to our metal box. The most prominent feature of newer houses from the street is the garage, not the door or porch. We live in a subdivision where the nearest store is a five minute drive, so nobody ever uses the sidewalks that are mandated to be there. We move across the country for work, so we aren't close to family. There's no real neutral place where people have to interact together for some reason, so you don't have the accidental meetings that is required to meet people and community.
• lilbismypal 8y ago
  lonely is a social construct so inherently, half of people will be lonely lmao
• pweissbrod 8y ago
  My guess is that America in 2018 is more selfish and cliquey than any other time in memorable history. That simple really
• tinyhouse 8y ago
  There was a related discussion here a few months ago about the difficulty of making friends after a certain age (40?). Here's my take on it, from someone who immigrated to the US late in his 20s. My point of view is very biased towards the region I live in, which is much more educated and wealthy than most of the US. Let's start with how kids grow up here since I think it affects their social life later in life. American parents are protective. Most kids, even in middle school, have very structured schedule where time with friends is usually not a priority like academics. Playdates are usually organized by the parents and they are usually short and not spontaneous. Kids who don't live in walkable urban areas with good public transit usually depend on their parents to drive them around to friends. I heard that in rural and poor areas it's even worse. People never go to each other house, instead they only meet at the Church. Now let's talk about American adults. Americans seem to love communities. They are pretty involved in their communities which is great. However, they usually stay away from forming deep relationships and exposing themselves. Sometimes it feels like they don't want to be a burden on somebody else. Not sure exactly how to explain it. My impression is that many Americans have friends but usually not very close friends (at least based on my definition of close). Maybe the size of the country and the fact the people move often is also a factor.
• throw2016 8y ago
  Those who have had to move locations probably run into this the most. Usually friends formed in school and college are from a time you were young and naive and tend to have the deepest shared bonds. And if you have to leave this behind getting the same level of social connection can be tough. Also some people are extremely friendly by nature, they love being around people and can engage easily, others are more reserved. Work colleagues are usually in a weird space, not strangers but not really friends. Maybe human beings work best in known and close knit communities not urban alienated environments, clearly a lot of our happiness derives from social contexts, and we need that level of connectivity, interaction and support. Sometimes you want to be alone, but the rest of the time you want to be with people who love and care for you. Without it life becomes a bit empty and alienation becomes 'normal'.
• BloodyHands 8y ago
  these are fucking insane psychos they should be hunted down and killed these worthless fucks will piss and shit on anything
  • dang 8y ago
    We've banned this account. Commenting like this will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
• diogenescynic 8y ago
  We are an incredibly divided country—whether by religion, culture, ethnicity, sexuality, gender, language, etc etc. it’s a constant issue of us vs them. Unfortunately, Trump takes complete advantage of this to divide the country daily which only exacerbates the situation. I truly think this lack of ‘community life’ is killing Americans and the cause of a lot of other issues like health problems and suicide.
  • AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    It's a vicious circle. This lack of community life also makes us more divided. That in turn helps destroy community life...
    • diogenescynic 8y ago
      Completely agree. How do we fix this? I notice in other countries there is a much more collectivist mentality, whereas Americans are rooted in a mentality of rugged individualism. It’s hard to get Americans to actually care about each other. For example, the Pacific North West is hostile to California, Virginia looks down on North Carolina who looks down on South Carolina... there’s a lot of divisions across as wide range of demographics in America. It seems to be getting worse. Maybe the pendulum will begin to swing the other way? A really sad symptom is how many people go on social media but essentially broadcast to no one and get no feedback. It seems incredibly lonely to realize how many people online are sort of engaging in form of prayer of sorts (speaking to no one, hoping for a reply) and casting their emotions into a black hole of the Internet. I think for all it’s merits, we’ve gotta get people offline and engaging with each other in the real world. We’ve gotta get people out of their thought bubbles too, but I have no idea how to accomplish that. Bringing back the Fairness Doctrine would probably help.
• austincheney 8y ago
  I suspect this is a growth trend largely resultant from intentional self-induced social isolation. This problem is similar, in the brain, to addiction in that the inflicted are incapable of perceiving the problem while the implications are immediately clear to them.
• deleted 8y ago
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• pnathan 8y ago
  noted this elsewhere - but toplevel - if you are ever in downtown Seattle, feel a bit lonely (work trip?) and want to get lunch or coffee with Someone From The Internet, I am usually up for such a thing on a work day. email in profile, etc.
• crispinb 8y ago
  A vast radical social experiment, replacing all human values with that of competitive & monomaniacal accumulation of material wealth, turns out to be a poor fit for actual humans. Well gosh.
• maym86 8y ago
  The title: > Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely Vs the actual result of the study: > 46% of Americans report sometimes or always feeling alone I would have thought everyone feels lonely sometimes and I'm more suprised it is not higher. The title is clickbate.
• eswat 8y ago
  I see an article about this issue pop up every month or so. But what’s actually being done about it? Seems like the solutions are not catching up with the possible hurdles that get introduced.
  • jakegarelick 8y ago
    Alcoholics Anonymous helps with this for alcoholics. Generally friendships have to be built on some shared interest or experience, so I think it would be hard to create a solution for the general population.
• davidw 8y ago
  I miss Italy from that point of view. It's tough to make friends here in the US.
• mendelsd 8y ago
  Loneliness, in my experience, can be a symptom rather than a problem in and of itself. I define my past loneliness as: Negative feelings, fed by: - feeling bad in the first instance - feeling powerless to improve my state - feeling that others could improve my state, if only they would show sufficient interest in me Gaining power to work on why I was feeling bad in the first instance (through health and lifestyle interventions) has had several effects over the years: - it has improved my state so that I mostly feel good - it has taught me many valuable things to share with others The social aspect of my life has radically changed: - I feel less dependent on others to feel good - I have many things to share with others and enjoy sharing it - My attitude and knowledge attracts others - I am mentally/emotionally stable enough to withstand the ambiguities and stresses that relationships tend to give rise to I don't claim to have solved loneliness, but I have solved my loneliness and I hope some will be helped by this insight.
  • lapaz17 8y ago
    How did you achieve it? What were the conditions to change your mental status,opinions?
    • mendelsd 8y ago
      The conditions were an inescapable sense that something had been going wrong with my life for a long time, and then getting very lucky: an acquaintance of mine is a genius and sort of transitioned several years ago into being a health guru, focused on addressing subclinical health conditions precisely like the kind that had been bugging me. I had a lot of faith in him, worked hard at it, and 8 years or so later am enjoying the benefits. Life is still challenging, but it's great deal better. The genius is Paul Jaminet. Check out his work if you think you might benefit. I've also benefited from paying attention to the blogs of Chris Kresser, Mark Sisson, and Scott Alexander (his health-related posts of course). Google Scholar and Sci-Hub get huge credit too.
• mnm1 8y ago
  Do people still wonder why drug abuse is pandemic in America? Compound loneliness with poverty ... Are people still wondering? Why the birth rates are low and mortality so high? Seriously are people still wondering? Why we are such a divided society, full of hate and fear of one another. People can't be that fucking dumb in America. Maybe they are because they're still wondering. Why we fight wars we can't win? Why we fight so hard to prevent our neighbors from getting healthcare or education or help of any kind. No seriously, are people still wondering why our kids shoot themselves in schools and then when they don't do that shoot themselves up with heroin or worse? Are you telling me people are so fucking dumb here that they're still wondering about such things? Yeah, it appears the obvious escapes most people's common sense. Only the truly stupid wonder about such things. It's not just loneliness, it's lack of any kind of connection that drives people to do insane things. Yet people still wonder why that kid shot up his school. Are people here really that stupid? Yes they are.
• CM30 8y ago
  A bit late now, but part of me wonders whether the advances in communication technology have made it too easy to keep in contact with people we already know, and whether that's caused part of this issue. Think about it. In the olden days, if you went to college or moved to a new, somewhat distant town or country, that was it for your current social life. You lost contact with your existing friends, and you had to find new friends at the new location in order to not be lonely again. That lack of communication forced you to meet new people on a regular basis, and likely made college/university a good place for it for so many young people. After all, you couldn't talk to your hometown friends as easily now, and your family was cut off too. You had to meet new people. Smartphones and social media sites and other such things make it so you can easily keep up with the people you already know, and spend all your free time talking to those you're already in contact with. The need for finding new crowds has basically died.