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This argument is a red herring. People like new things. People like things that work all the time without modification. Almost no one actually wants a phone or

This argument is a red herring. People like new things. People like things that work all the time without modification. Almost no one actually wants a phone or computer that lasts twice as long but is bulky and requires maintenance. The disposable / non disposable distinction doesn’t really make sense. On a long enough time horizon, everything is disposable. And it’s not like you can’t replace anything on an iPhone or Mac - you can replace things like screens, storage, memory, keyboards and so on.

cptskippy 8y ago
> This argument is a red herring. People like new things. People like things that work all the time without modification. Apple and others have convinced people that they need to upgrade to the latest and greatest device each year. Because if they don't then it negatively impacts Apple's revenue and stock price. > Almost no one actually wants a phone or computer that lasts twice as long but is bulky and requires maintenance. That's a false dichotomy, you're assuming that in order for a computer to have a modular or maintenance friendly design, that it has to be big and bulky. Lenovo doesn't seem to have any problems producing laptops with similar dimensions to Apple's that are almost entirely modular. > The disposable / non disposable distinction doesn’t really make sense. On a long enough time horizon, everything is disposable. That same logic can be used to invalidate pretty much everything. The distinct makes perfect sense when framed within the usable life of the device. I have a 3rd generation iPod Touch going on a decade old that still works, are you saying I should just throw it away because it's more than a year old? > you can replace things like screens, storage, memory, keyboards and so on. Putting aside the fact that Apple doesn't permit most of those upgrades and that they don't actually sell most of those parts. On which devices specifically can you upgrade storage, memory and keyboards? On all iOS devices since ever, and on all the MacBooks since 2016 the storage and memory are soldered directly to the motherboard. They are non user serviceable parts. The keyboards on all Macbooks with butteryfly keys are riveted to the aluminum unibody so a keyboard replacement is literally replacing half the machine. On the Mac Pro they keyboard and mouse are the only things you can upgrade.
- scarface74 8y ago
  On which devices specifically can you upgrade storage, memory and keyboards? memory -- 27" iMacs storage -- seeing that Thunderbolt is more than fast enough to handle external memory, all Macs. keyboards -- Mac Mini, iMac, MacPro. What laptops allow you to update keyboards?
  - willtim 8y ago
    > What laptops allow you to update keyboards? ThinkPads, for example.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Apple and others have convinced people that they need to upgrade to the latest and greatest device each year. Because if they don't then it negatively impacts Apple's revenue and stock price. So Apple “convinces” people that they need the latest products because they introduce better products every year? Even though they also are releases the latest OS for all iPhones back to 2012? I know for a fact that any device that can at least run iOS 5 - devices back to 2010 can still download older versions of apps directly from the App Store. If your device isn’t compatible with the newest version, you are given the option to download “the last compatible version”.
takeda 8y ago
> This argument is a red herring. People like new things. People like things that work all the time without modification. Almost no one actually wants a phone or computer that lasts twice as long but is bulky and requires maintenance. I don't know about you, but I don't feel like throwing $1000 once a year to have latest and greatest. I did went through several phones but that's only because they became unusable with time as applications required more and more resources. We eventually got phones that are powerful enough to last for longer and even the mid range phones are no longer crappy. This is why the revenue of companies producing phones dropped recently. Most people don't want to change their device that often.
- scarface74 8y ago
  This is why the revenue of companies producing phones dropped recently. Most people don't want to change their device that often. The revenue of phone companies (except for Apple) haven't been great since Android became popular. There is no differentiation except for price and all of the other manufacturers are in a race to the bottom -- it happens in all commoditized markets -- PC's, TVs, etc.
- wskinner 8y ago
  I used an iPhone 5S until iPhone 8 came out last year. I'm still using a MacBook Air from mid 2012. Do the amortized cost math and it comes out to be way cheaper than the internet & mobile data costs for those devices.
- rimliu 8y ago
  Unless you just throw your "old" iPhone away when getting new one you can easily get back a substantial part of that $1000.

cptskippy 8y ago

> This argument is a red herring. People like new things. People like things that work all the time without modification. Apple and others have convinced people that they need to upgrade to the latest and greatest device each year. Because if they don't then it negatively impacts Apple's revenue and stock price. > Almost no one actually wants a phone or computer that lasts twice as long but is bulky and requires maintenance. That's a false dichotomy, you're assuming that in order for a computer to have a modular or maintenance friendly design, that it has to be big and bulky. Lenovo doesn't seem to have any problems producing laptops with similar dimensions to Apple's that are almost entirely modular. > The disposable / non disposable distinction doesn’t really make sense. On a long enough time horizon, everything is disposable. That same logic can be used to invalidate pretty much everything. The distinct makes perfect sense when framed within the usable life of the device. I have a 3rd generation iPod Touch going on a decade old that still works, are you saying I should just throw it away because it's more than a year old? > you can replace things like screens, storage, memory, keyboards and so on. Putting aside the fact that Apple doesn't permit most of those upgrades and that they don't actually sell most of those parts. On which devices specifically can you upgrade storage, memory and keyboards? On all iOS devices since ever, and on all the MacBooks since 2016 the storage and memory are soldered directly to the motherboard. They are non user serviceable parts. The keyboards on all Macbooks with butteryfly keys are riveted to the aluminum unibody so a keyboard replacement is literally replacing half the machine. On the Mac Pro they keyboard and mouse are the only things you can upgrade.

scarface74 8y ago
On which devices specifically can you upgrade storage, memory and keyboards? memory -- 27" iMacs storage -- seeing that Thunderbolt is more than fast enough to handle external memory, all Macs. keyboards -- Mac Mini, iMac, MacPro. What laptops allow you to update keyboards?
- willtim 8y ago
  > What laptops allow you to update keyboards? ThinkPads, for example.
scarface74 8y ago
Apple and others have convinced people that they need to upgrade to the latest and greatest device each year. Because if they don't then it negatively impacts Apple's revenue and stock price. So Apple “convinces” people that they need the latest products because they introduce better products every year? Even though they also are releases the latest OS for all iPhones back to 2012? I know for a fact that any device that can at least run iOS 5 - devices back to 2010 can still download older versions of apps directly from the App Store. If your device isn’t compatible with the newest version, you are given the option to download “the last compatible version”.

takeda 8y ago

> This argument is a red herring. People like new things. People like things that work all the time without modification. Almost no one actually wants a phone or computer that lasts twice as long but is bulky and requires maintenance. I don't know about you, but I don't feel like throwing $1000 once a year to have latest and greatest. I did went through several phones but that's only because they became unusable with time as applications required more and more resources. We eventually got phones that are powerful enough to last for longer and even the mid range phones are no longer crappy. This is why the revenue of companies producing phones dropped recently. Most people don't want to change their device that often.

scarface74 8y ago
This is why the revenue of companies producing phones dropped recently. Most people don't want to change their device that often. The revenue of phone companies (except for Apple) haven't been great since Android became popular. There is no differentiation except for price and all of the other manufacturers are in a race to the bottom -- it happens in all commoditized markets -- PC's, TVs, etc.
wskinner 8y ago
I used an iPhone 5S until iPhone 8 came out last year. I'm still using a MacBook Air from mid 2012. Do the amortized cost math and it comes out to be way cheaper than the internet & mobile data costs for those devices.
rimliu 8y ago
Unless you just throw your "old" iPhone away when getting new one you can easily get back a substantial part of that $1000.