4 ms·

27 years without a recession, a minimum wage of $22/hr, an endless supply of perfect beaches and natural wonder; a most-developed, low crime, strong social safe

27 years without a recession, a minimum wage of $22/hr, an endless supply of perfect beaches and natural wonder; a most-developed, low crime, strong social safety net country not far from Asia for holiday. Sounds pretty good

magicbuzz 8y ago
There’s not actually that much of a safety net. And the figures quoted below are largely unchanged 4 yrs later. https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/miserly-newstart-keeps-unemployed-further-away-from-jobs-20140523-zrmvz.html https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/miserly-newstart-keeps-unempl... I think the real issue with sustained high levels of immigration is that most immigrants end up living in one of two major cities, Sydney or Melbourne. Melbourne is on track to have a London-sized population by mid-century - but that’s of course based on estimates. Which as the article points out, were completely wrong by three decades in 2005.
- wallace_f 8y ago
  It's a lot more than what you get in Asia or the US, or most of the world. Maybe not as good as Western Europe, and not as good as Scandanavia or Switzerland
zavi 8y ago
Australian GDP tanked between 2013 and now. It's a recession by definition. This is trivial to verify.
- adventured 8y ago
  For reference, Australia's GDP went from $1.57t in 2013, to $1.38 in 2017. Nearly all nations tanked similarly, but only when priced in US dollars. It was caused by a record USD bull run. The USD gained a lot of ground vs the AUD in just two years. Germany went from $3.88t to $3.36t one year later. France went from $2.85t to $2.43t one year later. Canada went from $1.84t to $1.55t in two years. Japan went from $6.2t in 2012, to $4.4t in 2015. I assure you, their economy didn't actually contract by 29% in three years. That's solely due to the dollar / yen exchange. They didn't shutter a third of their stores or factories. A year later their USD GDP value jumped by ~11%, solely due to the exchange rate, their economic production did not expand by 11%. The US dollar dropping by a considerable amount during the Bush years, was similarly responsible for artificially inflating the GDP of Australia (and all nations) in USD terms.
  - zavi 8y ago
    I think you're right then in terms of it not being technically a recession. > Nearly all nations tanked similarly Is this true though?
  - robbiep 8y ago
    Australia measures GDP in AUD not USD, you’re talking about PPP
ekianjo 8y ago
You need that kind of minimum wage because everything is super expensive in Sydney for example. Even bus rides.
- falsedan 8y ago
  Just buy blue traveltens and claim you didn't know you rode for too many sections if you're ever inspected…
  - jboles 8y ago
    Can't anymore. Blue TravelTens are gone, it's now all about Opal running. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/opal-runners-keep-swiping-for-free-travel-despite-attempt-to-close-loophole-20160808-gqnlv6.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/opal-runners-keep-swipin...
    - falsedan 8y ago
      I've been away too long…
0xfaded 8y ago
Our GDP "growth" is largely because property price inflation is somehow considered economic growth. As an Australian, my conclusion is that Australia has failed to diversify its economy. Money comes in through mining, agriculture, property sales and to a lesser extent tertiary education. The rest is a services economy, and I think the joke about Australia being a country where we all serve each other lattes captures the idea in as few words possible. I've just left the US, and instead of going home I went to Europe to start my company. Denmark is amazingly progressive with how it spends its public purse setting up an environment for innovation. Australia on the other hand seems to have abandoned any idea of establishing a sovereign wealth fund (mining tax) and instead blown millions courting US dollars which hasn't succeeded in turning Australia into a foreign branch of SV. For a longer read, this is obviously one person's analysis, but I fail to find a flaw in his conclusions. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/australias-economy-house-cards-matt-barrie https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/australias-economy-house-card...
- wycx 8y ago
  From the link, on economic complexity [1]: Where does Australia rank on the global scale? Worse than Mauritius, Macedonia, Oman, Moldova, Vietnam, Egypt and Botswana. Worse than Georgia, Kuwait, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and El Salvador. Sitting embarrassingly and awkwardly between Kazakhstan and Jamaica, and worse than the Dominican Republic at 74 and Guatemala at 75, Australia ranks off the deep end of the scale at 77th place. 77th and falling. After Tajikistan, Australia had the fourth highest loss in Economic Complexity over the last decade, falling 18 places. Not the behavior of a modern, mixed economy that many Australians pretend that we have. We are an anomaly. A third world economy with a first world standard of living. Will is last? [1] http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings/ http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings/
- dcx 8y ago
  That was an amazing read - thanks for sharing. Being pointed to these kinds of brilliant longform pieces of thinking is one of the best things I consistently get out of HN.
ulfw 8y ago
And growing xenophobia that made legal skilled immigration harder and harder over time. I've tried moving to Australia several times. Gave up after spending months interviewing with companies who at the end never pick the foreigner. Most don't even bother talking to you if you're not a permanent resident. Very much like the US.

magicbuzz 8y ago

There’s not actually that much of a safety net. And the figures quoted below are largely unchanged 4 yrs later. https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/miserly-newstart-keeps-unemployed-further-away-from-jobs-20140523-zrmvz.html https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/miserly-newstart-keeps-unempl... I think the real issue with sustained high levels of immigration is that most immigrants end up living in one of two major cities, Sydney or Melbourne. Melbourne is on track to have a London-sized population by mid-century - but that’s of course based on estimates. Which as the article points out, were completely wrong by three decades in 2005.

wallace_f 8y ago
It's a lot more than what you get in Asia or the US, or most of the world. Maybe not as good as Western Europe, and not as good as Scandanavia or Switzerland

zavi 8y ago

Australian GDP tanked between 2013 and now. It's a recession by definition. This is trivial to verify.

adventured 8y ago
For reference, Australia's GDP went from $1.57t in 2013, to $1.38 in 2017. Nearly all nations tanked similarly, but only when priced in US dollars. It was caused by a record USD bull run. The USD gained a lot of ground vs the AUD in just two years. Germany went from $3.88t to $3.36t one year later. France went from $2.85t to $2.43t one year later. Canada went from $1.84t to $1.55t in two years. Japan went from $6.2t in 2012, to $4.4t in 2015. I assure you, their economy didn't actually contract by 29% in three years. That's solely due to the dollar / yen exchange. They didn't shutter a third of their stores or factories. A year later their USD GDP value jumped by ~11%, solely due to the exchange rate, their economic production did not expand by 11%. The US dollar dropping by a considerable amount during the Bush years, was similarly responsible for artificially inflating the GDP of Australia (and all nations) in USD terms.
- zavi 8y ago
  I think you're right then in terms of it not being technically a recession. > Nearly all nations tanked similarly Is this true though?
- robbiep 8y ago
  Australia measures GDP in AUD not USD, you’re talking about PPP

ekianjo 8y ago

You need that kind of minimum wage because everything is super expensive in Sydney for example. Even bus rides.

falsedan 8y ago
Just buy blue traveltens and claim you didn't know you rode for too many sections if you're ever inspected…
- jboles 8y ago
  Can't anymore. Blue TravelTens are gone, it's now all about Opal running. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/opal-runners-keep-swiping-for-free-travel-despite-attempt-to-close-loophole-20160808-gqnlv6.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/opal-runners-keep-swipin...
  - falsedan 8y ago
    I've been away too long…

0xfaded 8y ago

Our GDP "growth" is largely because property price inflation is somehow considered economic growth. As an Australian, my conclusion is that Australia has failed to diversify its economy. Money comes in through mining, agriculture, property sales and to a lesser extent tertiary education. The rest is a services economy, and I think the joke about Australia being a country where we all serve each other lattes captures the idea in as few words possible. I've just left the US, and instead of going home I went to Europe to start my company. Denmark is amazingly progressive with how it spends its public purse setting up an environment for innovation. Australia on the other hand seems to have abandoned any idea of establishing a sovereign wealth fund (mining tax) and instead blown millions courting US dollars which hasn't succeeded in turning Australia into a foreign branch of SV. For a longer read, this is obviously one person's analysis, but I fail to find a flaw in his conclusions. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/australias-economy-house-cards-matt-barrie https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/australias-economy-house-card...

wycx 8y ago
From the link, on economic complexity [1]: Where does Australia rank on the global scale? Worse than Mauritius, Macedonia, Oman, Moldova, Vietnam, Egypt and Botswana. Worse than Georgia, Kuwait, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and El Salvador. Sitting embarrassingly and awkwardly between Kazakhstan and Jamaica, and worse than the Dominican Republic at 74 and Guatemala at 75, Australia ranks off the deep end of the scale at 77th place. 77th and falling. After Tajikistan, Australia had the fourth highest loss in Economic Complexity over the last decade, falling 18 places. Not the behavior of a modern, mixed economy that many Australians pretend that we have. We are an anomaly. A third world economy with a first world standard of living. Will is last? [1] http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings/ http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings/
dcx 8y ago
That was an amazing read - thanks for sharing. Being pointed to these kinds of brilliant longform pieces of thinking is one of the best things I consistently get out of HN.

ulfw 8y ago

And growing xenophobia that made legal skilled immigration harder and harder over time. I've tried moving to Australia several times. Gave up after spending months interviewing with companies who at the end never pick the foreigner. Most don't even bother talking to you if you're not a permanent resident. Very much like the US.