5 ms·

Someone somewhere determined the risk of him flying commercial was more than the cost of him flying private.

rconti 8y ago
I would think, arguably, the private jet itself is less safe than commercial, but I don't have any stats to back that up. When you add in personal safety (from other passengers), maybe for a high profile person, the private jet is safer. And obviously it's good in the interest of efficiency.
- dv_dt 8y ago
  My first thought too: http://time.com/2807413/safe-private-jets/ http://time.com/2807413/safe-private-jets/ The article seems to conclude that private jets seem to be a little less safe than commercial jets, and they hint at, but don't/can't pick apart sub groups of say a corporate maintained jet vs a charter jet.
  - rconti 8y ago
    Good find, thanks! It's much closer than I'd think. Not that I previously would have been afraid to fly a private jet, but those stats would greatly comfort me. Now, per passenger-mile, that's not so good, but when you're deciding how to fly a person from point A to point B, you care more about crashes per hour, which is the stat they use. Also, sharing this typo because it amused me. > Indeed, the very hottest business jet out there right now is Gulfstream’s long distance G650, which retails for about $65 million but is already selling for about $75 billion in the secondary market. The waiting list is four years long.
    - redblacktree 8y ago
      million and billion? As in, ~1,000x the retail price on the secondary market?
      - rconti 8y ago
        Yes, I believe that's the typo.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  On average I'd imagine private jets to be higher risk but with a wider spread than commercial airlines -- but if you can pick the best maintenance crew, best pilots, etc., then you can select the lowest risk in a way that's not going to be possible travelling commercially.
- mi100hael 8y ago
  I'd guess "private flight" statistically has higher incident rates, but it's possible to beat commercial on an individual basis if you hire the best pilots, buy a large top-of-the-line plane with cutting-edge avionics, etc which I'd assume Apple does for its CEO. I think most private flight incidents are caused by pilot error, particularly in low-viz conditions where good instruments would help.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- gbacon 8y ago
  According to the Nall Report[0] for 2014 from the Airplane Owners and Pilots Association’s Air Safety Institute, “Pilot-related causes consistently account for about 75% of non-commercial fixed-wing [general-aviation] accidents.” Those causes are fuel management, weather, takeoff and climb, maneuvering, descent/approach, landing, and other (inadequate preflight inspection, accidents while taxiing, attempted go-arounds, loss of engine power due to failure to use carburetor heat, controlled flight into terrain [CFIT], unexplained loss of control in cruise, pilot impairment by alcohol and/or drugs, pilot incapacitation, in-flight suicide, midair collisions, collisions between airplanes and ground vehicles, and collision between a glider and tow plane). The top four categories by number of fatal and non-fatal accidents were, in order, landing, other pilot-related, takeoff and climb, and fuel management. Most weather accidents were flights conducted under visual flight rules that entered instrument meteorological conditions (VFR into IMC). Legally flying in IMC requires all of an instrument rating, a suitably equipped aircraft, a pilot with instrument currency (adequate recent experience in actual or simulated IMC), and an IFR flight plan. [0]: https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/aopa/home/training-and-safety/nall-report/26thnallreport2017.pdf#page=13 https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/aopa/home/training-and-sa... All that said, the results above are likely not representative of a corporate jet flying the CEO of Apple around. Within the FAA’s jurisdiction, piloting an aircraft above 12,500 pounds max gross takeoff weight requires a type rating, i.e., certification that the pilot is qualified to fly that specific type of airplane. Many such airplanes will require two pilots, and jets commonly require the pilot in command at least to hold an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate. The G650 that Jobs owned[1] has a MGTOW of 20,000 pounds. [1]: https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N2N https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N2N Whereas about half of the accidents described above involved pilots with a private certificate only — and insurance companies hate VFR-only pilots because of the accident rate — any pilot qualified to fly a corporate jet will have additional training, ratings, and thousands more flight hours compared to Joe Average Private Pilot smashing bugs in a Cessna single. The G650 will have two such highly trained pilots: a type-rated ATP PIC and a type-rated first officer (at least commercial, probably ATP). This makes the operation not twice as safe but thousands of times safer.

I would think, arguably, the private jet itself is less safe than commercial, but I don't have any stats to back that up. When you add in personal safety (from other passengers), maybe for a high profile person, the private jet is safer. And obviously it's good in the interest of efficiency.

dv_dt 8y ago
My first thought too: http://time.com/2807413/safe-private-jets/ http://time.com/2807413/safe-private-jets/ The article seems to conclude that private jets seem to be a little less safe than commercial jets, and they hint at, but don't/can't pick apart sub groups of say a corporate maintained jet vs a charter jet.
- rconti 8y ago
  Good find, thanks! It's much closer than I'd think. Not that I previously would have been afraid to fly a private jet, but those stats would greatly comfort me. Now, per passenger-mile, that's not so good, but when you're deciding how to fly a person from point A to point B, you care more about crashes per hour, which is the stat they use. Also, sharing this typo because it amused me. > Indeed, the very hottest business jet out there right now is Gulfstream’s long distance G650, which retails for about $65 million but is already selling for about $75 billion in the secondary market. The waiting list is four years long.
  - redblacktree 8y ago
    million and billion? As in, ~1,000x the retail price on the secondary market?
    - rconti 8y ago
      Yes, I believe that's the typo.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
On average I'd imagine private jets to be higher risk but with a wider spread than commercial airlines -- but if you can pick the best maintenance crew, best pilots, etc., then you can select the lowest risk in a way that's not going to be possible travelling commercially.
mi100hael 8y ago
I'd guess "private flight" statistically has higher incident rates, but it's possible to beat commercial on an individual basis if you hire the best pilots, buy a large top-of-the-line plane with cutting-edge avionics, etc which I'd assume Apple does for its CEO. I think most private flight incidents are caused by pilot error, particularly in low-viz conditions where good instruments would help.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
gbacon 8y ago
According to the Nall Report[0] for 2014 from the Airplane Owners and Pilots Association’s Air Safety Institute, “Pilot-related causes consistently account for about 75% of non-commercial fixed-wing [general-aviation] accidents.” Those causes are fuel management, weather, takeoff and climb, maneuvering, descent/approach, landing, and other (inadequate preflight inspection, accidents while taxiing, attempted go-arounds, loss of engine power due to failure to use carburetor heat, controlled flight into terrain [CFIT], unexplained loss of control in cruise, pilot impairment by alcohol and/or drugs, pilot incapacitation, in-flight suicide, midair collisions, collisions between airplanes and ground vehicles, and collision between a glider and tow plane). The top four categories by number of fatal and non-fatal accidents were, in order, landing, other pilot-related, takeoff and climb, and fuel management. Most weather accidents were flights conducted under visual flight rules that entered instrument meteorological conditions (VFR into IMC). Legally flying in IMC requires all of an instrument rating, a suitably equipped aircraft, a pilot with instrument currency (adequate recent experience in actual or simulated IMC), and an IFR flight plan. [0]: https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/aopa/home/training-and-safety/nall-report/26thnallreport2017.pdf#page=13 https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/aopa/home/training-and-sa... All that said, the results above are likely not representative of a corporate jet flying the CEO of Apple around. Within the FAA’s jurisdiction, piloting an aircraft above 12,500 pounds max gross takeoff weight requires a type rating, i.e., certification that the pilot is qualified to fly that specific type of airplane. Many such airplanes will require two pilots, and jets commonly require the pilot in command at least to hold an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate. The G650 that Jobs owned[1] has a MGTOW of 20,000 pounds. [1]: https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N2N https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N2N Whereas about half of the accidents described above involved pilots with a private certificate only — and insurance companies hate VFR-only pilots because of the accident rate — any pilot qualified to fly a corporate jet will have additional training, ratings, and thousands more flight hours compared to Joe Average Private Pilot smashing bugs in a Cessna single. The G650 will have two such highly trained pilots: a type-rated ATP PIC and a type-rated first officer (at least commercial, probably ATP). This makes the operation not twice as safe but thousands of times safer.