5 ms·

On the other hand. I think Google creates way more value for the world, they are just not as good as Apple at capturing that value. Android, Maps, Docs, Gmail,

On the other hand. I think Google creates way more value for the world, they are just not as good as Apple at capturing that value. Android, Maps, Docs, Gmail, Navigation, Analytics are all (mostly) free.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
onion2k 8y ago
They're not free. They just don't cost money. Arguably they're very expensive.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  They're not free. They just don't cost money. Arguably they're very expensive. This is a distinction most people don't grasp. I didn't, myself, until recently when a briefing from the legal department resulted in scouring the word "free" from eight web sites and replacing the word with "at no cost."
  - corysama 8y ago
    DuckDuckGo looking nicer every day.
    - bduerst 8y ago
      DDG is essentially just a reskin of Bing.
      - josefresco 8y ago
        not exactly https://duck.co/help/results/sources https://duck.co/help/results/sources
      - bad_user 8y ago
        DDG claims to have multiple searches, like local or specialized search engines, but if Bing shuts down they would probably be in trouble. That said it’s irrelevant. Microsoft is happy to keep the competition alive for Google and I bet they are winning some revenue from their DDG deal, so it’s a win win. And if DDG gets big enough, and it probably is already, they can develop their own web crawler - because in case you don’t know, it’s the crawling part that’s really expensive.
      - corysama 8y ago
        A privacy filter over Bing is fine by me. Lately I've been switching to incongnito every time I search for any product, video or anything to do with news or politics. It's getting ridiculous. I should just switch to DDG permanently.
        earenndil 8y ago
        Use startpage, then. It's a reskin over google, which seems to provide better results.
        harias 8y ago
        Yes. Google seems to think that a single video totally changes what you prefer, especially if it is some popular topic like politics or music. OTOH it'll take a lot of ted lectures and programming videos to make your feed more oriented to words those. Is it me, or does anybody else notice this?
      - onion2k 8y ago
        Apocryphally Bing stands for "but it's not Google", which would be delightfully apt here.
  - kolbe 8y ago
    It really depends on how susceptible the particular user is to the cost of being a part Google's ad network. If Google's ad network intelligently informs you to make better consumer decisions, then you can argue that you get paid to use Google's services. But unfortunately, too many people derive extreme negative value from being a part of it by being manipulated into making decisions that harm their lives. Even poorer people could easily be paying thousands of dollars in cost to their health (sugary drink and alcohol ads), bank account (financial scam ads), and community destruction (political misinformation ads).
- allannienhuis 8y ago
  did you misunderstand the intent of the statement? It's common usage when talking about products.
- soared 8y ago
  And literally billions of people don't have the money to spend on products like that but are able to use them because they can pay with their data, which has no cash value to them.
  - rayiner 8y ago
    That doesn't really make any sense, right? How can those folks' data be worth very much if they don't have the money to pay a subscription fee for Google?
    - soared 8y ago
      Aggregate with affluent people's data and it becomes valuable to advertisers who will never know the difference maybe
    - olalonde 8y ago
      Rich folks are effectively subsidizing access for the poor. This is an advantage of Google's business model which is often overlooked by richer folks (who can easily afford subscription fees and Apple products).
dfee 8y ago
Any financial analyst would tell you their ad revenue, or even their market position would be at serious risk without each of the products you mentioned. Building and maintaining product suite is the cost on the ad revenue.
scarface74 8y ago
I like Apple’s simple transaction model - I give them money and they give me stuff. My desires and thier incentives are mostly aligned. Everything Google does is about advertising and collecting data. Those two things don’t align with my desires.
- kamaal 8y ago
  >>Those two things don’t align with my desires. They align with the needs and wants of billions of people. Now Apple might be ahead. But its not hard for them to lose all of that. Apple as of now is not useful to the masses in most countries. Google is. There is a reason why companies like Dell and Microsoft ruled so much in the 90s to the 2005. Once you exhaust Steve Jobs's established product lines, you are just selling expensive cosmetic shining gadgets offering little in extra value compared to Samsung or Dell. At that time is when Google like companies will outshine Apple. Scary thing for Apple is the new Macbook Pro already shows some of these problems. Steve Jobs is no more, and its already showing. In fact one big revolutionary product from Google could change everything for Apple. The raw utility of Google search still far exceeds that of iPhone. And that's just one product. Maps, YouTube, Android etc have very large utility to common masses compared to iPhone.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    There is a reason why companies like Dell and Microsoft ruled so much in the 90s to the 2005. Once you exhaust Steve Jobs's established product lines, you are just selling expensive cosmetic shining gadgets offering little in extra value compared to Samsung or Dell. At that time is when Google like companies will outshine Apple. Dell and Microsoft won when the user is not the customer - enterprise sells. Apple brought in the “consumerization of IT”. People have been predicting the death of Apple and the failure of the iPhone for 8 years. They swore Android and especially Samsung was going to take over. Samsung in fact is seeing price pressure and they are struggling - not Apple.
    - kamaal 8y ago
      Android has already taken over in sheer usage and deployment numbers. In fact, a lot could change over the coming years.
mikestew 8y ago
Google's products are not free as in you don't give them something. I don't like Google's price, so I give actual 'merican dollars to Apple.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

onion2k 8y ago

They're not free. They just don't cost money. Arguably they're very expensive.

reaperducer 8y ago
They're not free. They just don't cost money. Arguably they're very expensive. This is a distinction most people don't grasp. I didn't, myself, until recently when a briefing from the legal department resulted in scouring the word "free" from eight web sites and replacing the word with "at no cost."
- corysama 8y ago
  DuckDuckGo looking nicer every day.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    DDG is essentially just a reskin of Bing.
    - josefresco 8y ago
      not exactly https://duck.co/help/results/sources https://duck.co/help/results/sources
    - bad_user 8y ago
      DDG claims to have multiple searches, like local or specialized search engines, but if Bing shuts down they would probably be in trouble. That said it’s irrelevant. Microsoft is happy to keep the competition alive for Google and I bet they are winning some revenue from their DDG deal, so it’s a win win. And if DDG gets big enough, and it probably is already, they can develop their own web crawler - because in case you don’t know, it’s the crawling part that’s really expensive.
    - corysama 8y ago
      A privacy filter over Bing is fine by me. Lately I've been switching to incongnito every time I search for any product, video or anything to do with news or politics. It's getting ridiculous. I should just switch to DDG permanently.
      - earenndil 8y ago
        Use startpage, then. It's a reskin over google, which seems to provide better results.
      - harias 8y ago
        Yes. Google seems to think that a single video totally changes what you prefer, especially if it is some popular topic like politics or music. OTOH it'll take a lot of ted lectures and programming videos to make your feed more oriented to words those. Is it me, or does anybody else notice this?
    - onion2k 8y ago
      Apocryphally Bing stands for "but it's not Google", which would be delightfully apt here.
- kolbe 8y ago
  It really depends on how susceptible the particular user is to the cost of being a part Google's ad network. If Google's ad network intelligently informs you to make better consumer decisions, then you can argue that you get paid to use Google's services. But unfortunately, too many people derive extreme negative value from being a part of it by being manipulated into making decisions that harm their lives. Even poorer people could easily be paying thousands of dollars in cost to their health (sugary drink and alcohol ads), bank account (financial scam ads), and community destruction (political misinformation ads).
allannienhuis 8y ago
did you misunderstand the intent of the statement? It's common usage when talking about products.
soared 8y ago
And literally billions of people don't have the money to spend on products like that but are able to use them because they can pay with their data, which has no cash value to them.
- rayiner 8y ago
  That doesn't really make any sense, right? How can those folks' data be worth very much if they don't have the money to pay a subscription fee for Google?
  - soared 8y ago
    Aggregate with affluent people's data and it becomes valuable to advertisers who will never know the difference maybe
  - olalonde 8y ago
    Rich folks are effectively subsidizing access for the poor. This is an advantage of Google's business model which is often overlooked by richer folks (who can easily afford subscription fees and Apple products).

dfee 8y ago

Any financial analyst would tell you their ad revenue, or even their market position would be at serious risk without each of the products you mentioned. Building and maintaining product suite is the cost on the ad revenue.

scarface74 8y ago

I like Apple’s simple transaction model - I give them money and they give me stuff. My desires and thier incentives are mostly aligned. Everything Google does is about advertising and collecting data. Those two things don’t align with my desires.

kamaal 8y ago
>>Those two things don’t align with my desires. They align with the needs and wants of billions of people. Now Apple might be ahead. But its not hard for them to lose all of that. Apple as of now is not useful to the masses in most countries. Google is. There is a reason why companies like Dell and Microsoft ruled so much in the 90s to the 2005. Once you exhaust Steve Jobs's established product lines, you are just selling expensive cosmetic shining gadgets offering little in extra value compared to Samsung or Dell. At that time is when Google like companies will outshine Apple. Scary thing for Apple is the new Macbook Pro already shows some of these problems. Steve Jobs is no more, and its already showing. In fact one big revolutionary product from Google could change everything for Apple. The raw utility of Google search still far exceeds that of iPhone. And that's just one product. Maps, YouTube, Android etc have very large utility to common masses compared to iPhone.
- scarface74 8y ago
  There is a reason why companies like Dell and Microsoft ruled so much in the 90s to the 2005. Once you exhaust Steve Jobs's established product lines, you are just selling expensive cosmetic shining gadgets offering little in extra value compared to Samsung or Dell. At that time is when Google like companies will outshine Apple. Dell and Microsoft won when the user is not the customer - enterprise sells. Apple brought in the “consumerization of IT”. People have been predicting the death of Apple and the failure of the iPhone for 8 years. They swore Android and especially Samsung was going to take over. Samsung in fact is seeing price pressure and they are struggling - not Apple.
  - kamaal 8y ago
    Android has already taken over in sheer usage and deployment numbers. In fact, a lot could change over the coming years.

mikestew 8y ago

Google's products are not free as in you don't give them something. I don't like Google's price, so I give actual 'merican dollars to Apple.