5 ms·

Avoided the most taxes in history too!

by benologist 8y ago

gorkemyurt 8y ago
Probably lifted thousands of people out of poverty!
- oculusthrift 8y ago
  yeah probably chinese iphone makers. (not americans)
  - chii 8y ago
    so poor people outside america don't count as people?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- UncleMeat 8y ago
  Are those things mutually exclusive? Apple is sitting on hundreds of billions in cash. They could literally make a million people rich just by gifting the money. But they don't.
Theodores 8y ago
IT takes two to tango, the Irish government was ordered by the E.U. to pick up those ten billion or so of taxes but they didn't think it would be the thing to do and didn't demand what was rightfully theirs.
ryanmercer 8y ago
Except, you know, all the sales tax collected in their retail channels. And employment taxes on their 80,000 domestic employees. And property taxes. And real-estate fees. And government testing. And the obscene amounts of duties they pay importing every single thing they make. That's just for the U.S., in every other country they do business those apply as well (with exception of perhaps the import duties for business done in China).
- delinka 8y ago
  That's tax they might generate, but most of that is not tax paid by Apple. Consumers pay sales tax and duties go right into the price of the products, employees pay income tax...
  - ryanmercer 8y ago
    >That's tax they might generate, It's tax that would not have been paid if Apple did not exist. >and duties go right into the price of the products, And if the government said "Apple must now pay 50% on every dollar they make" guess what would go right into the price of the products... >employees pay income tax. Business owners must pay the federal government 6.2% of every dollar their worker makes until that annual salary reaches $113,700. Then 1.45% of all pay regardless of how high it goes for medicare. And unemployment insurance in whatever state.
    - delinka 8y ago
      >It's tax that would not have been paid if Apple did not exist. You can credit Apple with generating those taxes, but they don't get credit for paying that tax on their profits. >"Apple must now pay 50% on every dollar they make" guess what would go right into the price of the products... Yes, Apple's prices would go up to compensate, and consumers would be footing the bill. >Business owners must pay the federal government 6.2% of every dollar their worker makes ... Business owners must collect that amount, so my pay is reduced by that amount - I am paying that tax, the employer is just the tax man's agent.
    - themihai 8y ago
      You can also credit Apple for the companies that will never see the light because Apple had the tax advantage(not to mention some of its abusive practices towards competition/little guy)
      - ryanmercer 8y ago
        >You can also credit Apple for the companies that will never see the light because Apple had the tax advantage(not to mention some of its abusive practices towards competition/little guy) You can also credit Apple for the countless iOS developers that have made anywhere from a living to a fortune, that have all paid taxes on their earnings, that have also created likely hundreds of thousands of jobs for everything from customer support to developers inside those iOS development companies, all of which have had income and thus paid taxes, directly as a result of Apple existing.
KSS42 8y ago
Apple is also the largest tax payer also? (according to Apple!) https://www.apple.com/ca/newsroom/2017/11/the-facts-about-apple-tax-payments/ https://www.apple.com/ca/newsroom/2017/11/the-facts-about-ap...
- themihai 8y ago
  So the mere mortals should be thankful for the little Apple gives them, right? Small businesses competing with Apple should be just fine as well I guess even if they don't have the same tax advantage.
  - anon12341234 8y ago
    The comment you're replying to proves that Apple gives them way more than a little.
- sangnoir 8y ago
  The issues are orthogonal.
bepotts 8y ago
It's legal to find ways to reduce your tax burden.
- trumped 8y ago
  the tax system should be made simpler... no loopholes (I know it is probably not easy to accomplish, but worth a try) ... because middle class can't afford to avoid taxes like the rich does it.
  - penagwin 8y ago
    That's simply not possible. The IRS themselves state that "tax evasion" is illegal, but "tax avoidance" isn't. A "loophole" is the use of deductibles to lower the amount you pay in taxes, that you choose to try to get. For example, you could get lower taxes by "getting married", even if you're just friends you can get lower tax rates, etc. That's a "loophole". Are we supposed to prove they "really wanted to get married"? Now apply that to potentially all deductables.....
    - themihai 8y ago
      >>For example, you could get lower taxes by "getting married", even if you're just friends you can get lower tax rates, etc. That's a "loophole". Are we supposed to prove they "really wanted to get married"? Now apply that to potentially all deductables..... Ha ha ... What about a trillion dollar company paying less than 0.9% tax in countries where tax is minimum 13-19% ? Are we supposed to prove they really tried to evade tax? Or companies not paying any tax at all by siphoning profits through fictive loans in places where they pay little or no tax? I'm not sure if you get this but the issue is not about someone getting married to get lower taxes(even though that would be illegal just like married someone to get permanent residency is illegal). https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembourg-tax-files-tax-avoidance-industrial-scale https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembo...
      - penagwin 8y ago

Avoided the most taxes in history too!

gorkemyurt 8y ago

Probably lifted thousands of people out of poverty!

oculusthrift 8y ago
yeah probably chinese iphone makers. (not americans)
- chii 8y ago
  so poor people outside america don't count as people?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
UncleMeat 8y ago
Are those things mutually exclusive? Apple is sitting on hundreds of billions in cash. They could literally make a million people rich just by gifting the money. But they don't.

Theodores 8y ago

IT takes two to tango, the Irish government was ordered by the E.U. to pick up those ten billion or so of taxes but they didn't think it would be the thing to do and didn't demand what was rightfully theirs.

ryanmercer 8y ago

Except, you know, all the sales tax collected in their retail channels. And employment taxes on their 80,000 domestic employees. And property taxes. And real-estate fees. And government testing. And the obscene amounts of duties they pay importing every single thing they make. That's just for the U.S., in every other country they do business those apply as well (with exception of perhaps the import duties for business done in China).

delinka 8y ago
That's tax they might generate, but most of that is not tax paid by Apple. Consumers pay sales tax and duties go right into the price of the products, employees pay income tax...
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  >That's tax they might generate, It's tax that would not have been paid if Apple did not exist. >and duties go right into the price of the products, And if the government said "Apple must now pay 50% on every dollar they make" guess what would go right into the price of the products... >employees pay income tax. Business owners must pay the federal government 6.2% of every dollar their worker makes until that annual salary reaches $113,700. Then 1.45% of all pay regardless of how high it goes for medicare. And unemployment insurance in whatever state.
  - delinka 8y ago
    >It's tax that would not have been paid if Apple did not exist. You can credit Apple with generating those taxes, but they don't get credit for paying that tax on their profits. >"Apple must now pay 50% on every dollar they make" guess what would go right into the price of the products... Yes, Apple's prices would go up to compensate, and consumers would be footing the bill. >Business owners must pay the federal government 6.2% of every dollar their worker makes ... Business owners must collect that amount, so my pay is reduced by that amount - I am paying that tax, the employer is just the tax man's agent.
  - themihai 8y ago
    You can also credit Apple for the companies that will never see the light because Apple had the tax advantage(not to mention some of its abusive practices towards competition/little guy)
    - ryanmercer 8y ago
      >You can also credit Apple for the companies that will never see the light because Apple had the tax advantage(not to mention some of its abusive practices towards competition/little guy) You can also credit Apple for the countless iOS developers that have made anywhere from a living to a fortune, that have all paid taxes on their earnings, that have also created likely hundreds of thousands of jobs for everything from customer support to developers inside those iOS development companies, all of which have had income and thus paid taxes, directly as a result of Apple existing.

KSS42 8y ago

Apple is also the largest tax payer also? (according to Apple!) https://www.apple.com/ca/newsroom/2017/11/the-facts-about-apple-tax-payments/ https://www.apple.com/ca/newsroom/2017/11/the-facts-about-ap...

themihai 8y ago
So the mere mortals should be thankful for the little Apple gives them, right? Small businesses competing with Apple should be just fine as well I guess even if they don't have the same tax advantage.
- anon12341234 8y ago
  The comment you're replying to proves that Apple gives them way more than a little.
sangnoir 8y ago
The issues are orthogonal.

bepotts 8y ago

It's legal to find ways to reduce your tax burden.

trumped 8y ago
the tax system should be made simpler... no loopholes (I know it is probably not easy to accomplish, but worth a try) ... because middle class can't afford to avoid taxes like the rich does it.
- penagwin 8y ago
  That's simply not possible. The IRS themselves state that "tax evasion" is illegal, but "tax avoidance" isn't. A "loophole" is the use of deductibles to lower the amount you pay in taxes, that you choose to try to get. For example, you could get lower taxes by "getting married", even if you're just friends you can get lower tax rates, etc. That's a "loophole". Are we supposed to prove they "really wanted to get married"? Now apply that to potentially all deductables.....
  - themihai 8y ago
    >>For example, you could get lower taxes by "getting married", even if you're just friends you can get lower tax rates, etc. That's a "loophole". Are we supposed to prove they "really wanted to get married"? Now apply that to potentially all deductables..... Ha ha ... What about a trillion dollar company paying less than 0.9% tax in countries where tax is minimum 13-19% ? Are we supposed to prove they really tried to evade tax? Or companies not paying any tax at all by siphoning profits through fictive loans in places where they pay little or no tax? I'm not sure if you get this but the issue is not about someone getting married to get lower taxes(even though that would be illegal just like married someone to get permanent residency is illegal). https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembourg-tax-files-tax-avoidance-industrial-scale https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/nov/05/-sp-luxembo...
    - penagwin 8y ago