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> ...and focus on building a better foster / adoption system and encouraging people to use it who is going to fund that? wouldn't it be better to support the

> ...and focus on building a better foster / adoption system and encouraging people to use it who is going to fund that? wouldn't it be better to support the families as they are? help improve peoples lives instead of ripping families apart

soperj 8y ago
Same people funding these insane school programs?
- redisman 8y ago
  Lebron James has to fix all the ills in American society? Hmm I wonder why this country can't get anything productive done...
  - soperj 8y ago
    You have people pouring money into the school system, and the OP says it's in the wrong spot, and then the next poster asks, but who will fund that? clearly take money from one, put it in the other if that's the solution.
- freehunter 8y ago
  Who are you to say what charitable cause a private citizen spends their money on? Do you want to complain that Bill Gates spends money trying to cure malaria rather than remove trash from the ocean too?
  - soperj 8y ago
    no but i'll absolutely complain about the way the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation has changed the school system in the US.
    - epicureanideal 8y ago
      I'm not familiar with their influence, but I'd love to learn about it! Please link me to more details.
      - soperj 8y ago
        they are entirely responsible for common core, and teachers pay based on standardized tests.
      - PebblesRox 8y ago
        Here’s one overview: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gates-education-20160601-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gates-educat... Common Core specific: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-bill-gates-pulled-off-the-swift-common-core-revolution/2014/06/07/a830e32e-ec34-11e3-9f5c-9075d5508f0a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-bill-gates-pulle...
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  Why are they insane?
  - soperj 8y ago
    Common core and teachers wages dependent on standardized testing is nuts.
    - orwin 8y ago
      Do america's teacher wage depends on the child result to a standardized test?
      - soperj 8y ago
        in most states now yes. all because of bill gates.
      - dkonofalski 8y ago
        No, they're exaggerating. Some school funds are dependent on testing results. The better a school performs, the more funding they get from federal programs (some, not all). To say that teachers' wages are dependent on the results of these tests is just disingenuous.
textor 8y ago
For what it's worth, children from at-risk families achieve better education when the father ends up incarcerated. So we can absolutely make a case for "ripping families apart" and against supporting "families as they are". > My findings suggest that on average, parents who are on the margin of incarceration are likely to reduce the amount of schooling their child attains if they instead remain in the household. This can be explained because the removal from the household of a violent parent or a negative role model can create a safer environment for a child (Johnson, 2008; Jaffee et al., 2003). Incarceration is also a mechanism that can limit the intergenerational transmission of violence, substance abuse, and crime to children. This result also relates to findings in other fields that conclude that See Kling (2006), Aizer and Doyle, 2013; Di Tella and Schargrodsky (2013), Mueller-Smith, 2015; and Bhuller et al., 2016, among others. For example, using data from Sweden, Hjalmarsson and Lindquist (2007) report significant father-son correlations in criminal activity that begin to appear between ages 7 and 12, and are 3 the positive effects of being raised by one’s parents depend on the quality of care they can provide (Jaffee et al., 2003). https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5664c583e4b0c0bb910ceb3b/t/5b3d67c08a922db5a54cc2d4/1530750918765/JMP_JuL2018.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5664c583e4b0c0bb910ce...
- wjnqx 8y ago
  I am appalled that such an assertion can be made openly. It is, frankly, simply vile to suggest that children be taken away from struggling parents by society, rather than society being obligated to help those parents raise their children. To do so would be not only criminal, but profoundly immoral.
  - gizmo686 8y ago
    Facts matter. Evidence matters. We should not ignore evidence because it disagrees with our ideology. And we certainly should not attack someone for trying to bring in evidence to a discussion about something as important as raising our children. The poster you are responding to didn't even suggest a course of action. He mearly provided evidence that the "obvious" course of action might not be so obviously correct. You are free to (as another poster did) question the relevence, interperatation, or quality of the evidence, or provide other evidence or arguments to disagree with what the poster was presenting. But you should not attack someone for trying to have an evidence based discussion. Even if he turns out to be completely wrong, figuring out how he is wrong will likely be far more enlightening than simply asserting that he is wrong on moral grounds.

soperj 8y ago

Same people funding these insane school programs?

redisman 8y ago
Lebron James has to fix all the ills in American society? Hmm I wonder why this country can't get anything productive done...
- soperj 8y ago
  You have people pouring money into the school system, and the OP says it's in the wrong spot, and then the next poster asks, but who will fund that? clearly take money from one, put it in the other if that's the solution.
freehunter 8y ago
Who are you to say what charitable cause a private citizen spends their money on? Do you want to complain that Bill Gates spends money trying to cure malaria rather than remove trash from the ocean too?
- soperj 8y ago
  no but i'll absolutely complain about the way the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation has changed the school system in the US.
  - epicureanideal 8y ago
    I'm not familiar with their influence, but I'd love to learn about it! Please link me to more details.
    - soperj 8y ago
      they are entirely responsible for common core, and teachers pay based on standardized tests.
    - PebblesRox 8y ago
      Here’s one overview: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gates-education-20160601-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gates-educat... Common Core specific: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-bill-gates-pulled-off-the-swift-common-core-revolution/2014/06/07/a830e32e-ec34-11e3-9f5c-9075d5508f0a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-bill-gates-pulle...
dkonofalski 8y ago
Why are they insane?
- soperj 8y ago
  Common core and teachers wages dependent on standardized testing is nuts.
  - orwin 8y ago
    Do america's teacher wage depends on the child result to a standardized test?
    - soperj 8y ago
      in most states now yes. all because of bill gates.
    - dkonofalski 8y ago
      No, they're exaggerating. Some school funds are dependent on testing results. The better a school performs, the more funding they get from federal programs (some, not all). To say that teachers' wages are dependent on the results of these tests is just disingenuous.

textor 8y ago

For what it's worth, children from at-risk families achieve better education when the father ends up incarcerated. So we can absolutely make a case for "ripping families apart" and against supporting "families as they are". > My findings suggest that on average, parents who are on the margin of incarceration are likely to reduce the amount of schooling their child attains if they instead remain in the household. This can be explained because the removal from the household of a violent parent or a negative role model can create a safer environment for a child (Johnson, 2008; Jaffee et al., 2003). Incarceration is also a mechanism that can limit the intergenerational transmission of violence, substance abuse, and crime to children. This result also relates to findings in other fields that conclude that See Kling (2006), Aizer and Doyle, 2013; Di Tella and Schargrodsky (2013), Mueller-Smith, 2015; and Bhuller et al., 2016, among others. For example, using data from Sweden, Hjalmarsson and Lindquist (2007) report significant father-son correlations in criminal activity that begin to appear between ages 7 and 12, and are 3 the positive effects of being raised by one’s parents depend on the quality of care they can provide (Jaffee et al., 2003). https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5664c583e4b0c0bb910ceb3b/t/5b3d67c08a922db5a54cc2d4/1530750918765/JMP_JuL2018.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5664c583e4b0c0bb910ce...

wjnqx 8y ago
I am appalled that such an assertion can be made openly. It is, frankly, simply vile to suggest that children be taken away from struggling parents by society, rather than society being obligated to help those parents raise their children. To do so would be not only criminal, but profoundly immoral.
- gizmo686 8y ago
  Facts matter. Evidence matters. We should not ignore evidence because it disagrees with our ideology. And we certainly should not attack someone for trying to bring in evidence to a discussion about something as important as raising our children. The poster you are responding to didn't even suggest a course of action. He mearly provided evidence that the "obvious" course of action might not be so obviously correct. You are free to (as another poster did) question the relevence, interperatation, or quality of the evidence, or provide other evidence or arguments to disagree with what the poster was presenting. But you should not attack someone for trying to have an evidence based discussion. Even if he turns out to be completely wrong, figuring out how he is wrong will likely be far more enlightening than simply asserting that he is wrong on moral grounds.