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Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found
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- jared314 16y agoI thought they figured that out at least a year ago. I guess it was just a hypothesis then.
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- jeromec 16y agoWas it the same cause of a double-whammy virus teamed up with a fungus?
- bosch 16y agoI was going to post the same thing as the poster above you as I heard about this last year, but I wasn't sure if it was the combo or not. I know it involved fungus for sure though.
- jeromec 16y agoI see... from the article: Research at the University of California, San Francisco, had already identified the fungus as part of the problem. And several RNA-based viruses had been detected as well. But the Army/Montana team, using a new software system developed by the military for analyzing proteins, uncovered a new DNA-based virus, and established a linkage to the fungus, called N. ceranae. Maybe this is what the OP refers to. Thanks.
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- chubbard 16y agoMaybe you were thinking of this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090414084627.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090414084627.ht...
- jacquesm 16y agoThe paper: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0013181 http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone...
- moshezadka 16y agoThanks! The article was long on CSI-style antics and short on actual science.
- nfriedly 16y agoThe last I had heard, researchers believed that cell phones were at least partially to blame, but the article doesn't seem to mention it at all. Does anybody know if that has been disproved?
- jacquesm 16y agofrom 2007, in English (in spite of the .de domain): http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,477804,00.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,477804,00.h... Another: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2007/apr/16/ifmobilephone http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2007/apr/16/ifmobi... more recent: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/10/01/the-sudden-disappearance-of-the-honey-bees/ http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/10/01/the-sudden-dis...
- CamperBob 16y agoNo legitimate researchers ever believed that.
- nitrogen 16y agoI've upvoted you, because I don't think being misinformed is worth -4. 0 or -1, maybe. Do you have a source for the cell phone claim? I'm curious to know if there is a rational argument behind it, or just a speculative guess by a journalist.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago>I don't think being misinformed is worth -4. 0 or -1, maybe. They asked a useful question which should IMO have been at least a null hypothesis in some lab somewhere ("do hive deaths correlate with mobile phone use density or with mast locations"). Sure they assume something which appears slightly shaky in the process, but IMO they added to the post with their comment and deserve a +1 or +2 and a comment "that whilst it may have been an initial hypothesis it was quickly discarded, see {citation}". Down-modding this sort of comment reduces the quality of the thread.
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- rflrob 16y agoSkimming through the paper ( http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013181 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna... ), I don't know that the mass spectrometry they did really required a military-academia connection, as the article seems to imply. While the machines certainly aren't everywhere, I would imagine that there are quite a few in the hands of researchers who aren't paid by the DoD.
- jacquesm 16y agoThis bit might have something to do with that: > using a new software system developed by the military for analyzing proteins and in the paper: > with data processing and statistical analysis by the US Army Night Vision Laboratory So while not strictly speaking necessary (because knowledge can be transferred) the mass-spectrometers are not the whole story here.
- earl 16y agoI worked in a wetlab or for a bioinformatics company writing software for 4 years. One of the things that completely shocked me when I started working there, and I think most people don't appreciate, is that taking a liquid and figuring out what proteins are in there is a very hard thing to do. Then the next step -- how much does my sample have of the things I've identified -- is also hard to do. Doing either of them inexpensively is harder still. People still work hard on those two questions today, and there is still room for significant innovation around those two questions. Also, CSI style science, where you drop a sample into the magic machine and an answer pops out is... nonsense. These are some of the most finicky machines you've ever encountered -- you always end up doing baselining / calibration runs, etc. Often they involve skilled lab work to set up, calibrate, run, and determine whether answers are significant.
- abalashov 16y agoI always had my suspicions about those machines they show on "House," where a vial of serum or blood is popped into the machine and out comes a printed checklist of tests run and positive or negative results. It seems very doubtful that something like a rapid ELISA test for HIV can be done within a machine, in combination with many other tests.
- zeugma 16y agoIt does exist : http://www.bio-rad.com/evportal/evolutionPortal.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=productsPage&catID=a82cd166-67ca-4696-91a8-a98a550936f2 http://www.bio-rad.com/evportal/evolutionPortal.portal?_nfpb...
- bena 16y agoI think those machines work by using a portion of the blood and combining it with known reagents. Obviously shortened for TV time.
- pigbucket 16y agohttp://xkcd.com/683/ http://xkcd.com/683/
- bcl 16y agoI don't think you need a login for the printable page - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/science/07bees.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/science/07bees.html?_r=1&#...
- turnersauce 16y agoUnfortunately, it still asks for a login.
- jemfinch 16y agoEntomologists don't do bee autopsies, they do bee necropsies. The only animal that can be autopsied is a human. </pedant>
- omaranto 16y agoThe definition I had heard for autopsy was "examination of a cadaver to attempt to determine the cause of it's death". I guess you're saying that's wrong. What's the proper definition? I'm guessing it does have something to do with examining cadavers but there are restrictions. Is the restriction that the cadaver be human? Or that both the examiner and cadaver be human? Or possibly that both cadaver and examiner be intelligent creatures of the same kind in some sense (that's what "auto" sort of sounds like to me)?
- davidw 16y agoDict/wordnet says cadaver is "the dead body of a human being", so if an autopsy only deals with cadavers, then it's only people, I suppose.
- crc32 16y agoAs I understand it, a cadaver is a dead human body; rather than a dead organism of any kind.
- Confusion 16y agoIt's not so much about the definition, as it is about historical usage. Autopsy and necropsy are basically synonyms, but the first is used for humans, while the latter is used for all other animals. That's just the way it is; as often, there isn't really any rational explanation for it.
- code_duck 16y agoVery much a 'symptoms and not the causes' analysis. This doesn't really answer anything. It's like finding out a virus causes AIDS and not noticing it's spread through frequent promiscuous sexual contact. What they should be reporting on is: if this is dietary in some way, what has changed the diets of bees? Why are they catching this disease now, and not 20 years ago? What has been changing regarding the environment of bees?
- davidw 16y ago> This doesn't really answer anything Yes, it does; it tells us what is actually killing the bees. We didn't even really know that with any certainty before hand. You're correct that there are some important "why"'s, and "how"'s that aren't known, but one thing at a time.
- code_duck 16y agoNot determining the root causes of why the bees are actually experiencing this plague is like thinking aspirin cures someone with chronic headaches.
- davidw 16y agoYou can't get to the root cause or find a cure without first finding the cause, can you?
- code_duck 16y agoSure. But what I'm saying is that finding the pathogen is not finding the 'cause', it's more like a symptom. I would have preferred if the article and headline took that attitude. That's all.
- jashmenn 16y agoCheckout Michael Schacker's book 'A Spring Without Bees.' Though it is a bit one-sided, he makes a compelling case for the pesticide Imidacloprid (IMD) being a significant factor in the honey-bee decline (I don't have it on hand, but I think he cites a study that shows that IMD "intoxicates" bees at as low as 6 ppb). French beekeepers have been saying it was IMD for years and even though the "official" studies (from Bayer, the manufacturer of IMD) say there is no negative effect on bees. That said, since the French banned IMD in 1999 (for use on sunflowers and other crops) they've seen a decline in CCD. I'm a part of a few online beekeeping groups and the general feeling about this NYT article is that yes, probably a fungus + virus is what is killing the bees, but why are they weakened to such a point that it is spreading so disastrously? And here pesticides, migratory stress (i.e. driving them all around the country to pollenate crops), feeding them large amounts of hfcs, and general overwork all seem to play a part in weakening colonies.
- jashmenn 16y agoI'm not quite sure why this is being voted down. Anyone care to share the reason? Factual inaccuracies? Criticizing Bayer scientists? Vilifying HFCS? I'd love to get feedback on how the above post is out of line. I'd like to point out that there is huge financial incentives for the chem-companies to prove it isn't chemicals. Case in point, take the book 'The Idiots Guide to Beekeeping' In this book they suggest small-cell beekeeping as a way to help prevent the infection of mites. The chem companies and suppliers are furious that they would suggest this and are aggressively applying pressure to the publishers of the book. The publishers, who know little about beekeeping are in turn applying pressure to the authors to redact their stance on small-cell beekeeping. I'm not making this stuff up, checkout this email thread: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/BackwardsBeekeepers/message/4150 http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/BackwardsBeekeepers/messa... (For context, Backwards Beekeepers is one of the largest organic beekeeping groups in the US, based out of Los Angeles.)
- geebme 16y agoI became a beekeeper the end of August when I collected a swarm on the end of our block. I've since become keenly aware of the extent to which beekeeping has become "commercialized". Ignoring (external) factors like pesticides, etc., pollination activities subject them to intense pressures (monoculture, hive movement, sick bees from remote geographies, etc.). Varroa, for example, is pretty much endemic in hives throughout the US after having been "introduced" in the late 80s. The University of Minnesota, known for the Minnesota Hygienic line, instructs fledgling beekeepers to follow a "two-year" plan. The first year involves lots of chemical treatments (routine use of "nasty" chemicals is now the norm in the hive), the second year more chemicals and (hopefully) lots of honey. After two years? Kill the hive. The end-game in all of this seems unsustainable (highly-evolved diseases and highly-chemical-dependent hives). I've been trying to work out a better plan for myself: one that does not tolerate chemical treatments (but is willing to let weak hives die), works with the bees, and fosters reproduction of thriving stock. I'd appreciate any resources you'd be able to share to aid in this.
- pitdesi 16y agohttp://articles.sfgate.com/2007-10-14/living/17265958_1_california-almonds-almond-growers-almond-trees http://articles.sfgate.com/2007-10-14/living/17265958_1_cali... Great article on Almonds and Bees in case you weren't aware... over 50% of the bees in the US are shipped to California during growing season... pretty crazy. Wonder what the impact will be on almond prices.
- mian2zi3 16y agoHow funny. Twenty years ago I worked for a summer for that guy at the University of Montana grinding up bees and writing data collection/analysis software. edit: One of the projects I worked on looked at to what extent bees aggregated environmental pollutants into the hive. To prepare the bee samples for mass spectrometer, we ground them up, mixed them with aqua regia (mixture of nitric and hydrochloric acids) in a nonreactive teflon container (a teflon bombs) and then microwaved them! Science is awesome. One of the bombs exploded once and the acid gutted the inside of the microwave.