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I find the whole trend very childish and unprofessional. Why? Because emojis don't convey much meaning and borders on child-talk, worst yet, they're very vague

by omeid2 8y ago

I find the whole trend very childish and unprofessional. Why? Because emojis don't convey much meaning and borders on child-talk, worst yet, they're very vague and so makes for very poor and unprofessional form of communication.

oblio 8y ago
Assuming we're talking about commit messages and such, you're probably right. But in day-to-day chats they're useful. Text is extremely bad at conveying emotion and nuance. Stuff like humor, sarcasm, irony is really hard to transmit, especially with more people. A well placed emoji/smiley can help.
- DC-3 8y ago
  I agree with this. I'm certainly not averse to dropping a :-) or emoji equivalent when appropriate. But emoji party hats every time a PR is merged, or READMEs covered with emoji, or worse of all, CLIs that use emoji in them are annoying to me and I don't understand the appeal.
- type0 8y ago
  > talking about commit messages I heard that for some folks it makes it easier to find the right commits, unfortunately it's the opposite of being inclusive because other collaborators can become easily distracted by them.
Aeolun 8y ago
I am baffled by your assertion that they convey little meaning. Do facial expressions also convey little meaning? To me the combination of both gives a hell of a lot more to base interpretation of tone on.
- tehbeard 8y ago
  1. The size of emoji makes them difficult to grok, probably more so when you have to context switch between language comprehension and determining the emotion of the face. Also factor in how they look different on different platforms. 2. What about emoji's that aren't faces, or that have taken on a different meaning (see, eggplant or that infernal clapping emoji that's taken over twitter)
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  The issue I have with emojis is that they are rendered different on different fonts/devices, and because of this they can convey a different meaning.
  - Klathmon 8y ago
    And text is read wildly differently depending on the readers's culture, mood, font, and how well they know the language. Communication is messy as hell, and the fact that emoji's render differently doesn't add that much confusion in most cases (of course there are the odd watergun vs revolver emoji problems, but the worst offenders are slowly being brought into line)
    - toomanybeersies 8y ago
      If I send a text message from Android to iPhone, the message is the same. Obviously there's cultural differences etc. but I can usually work with those if I know the person I'm sending a message to. However, emojis can change when sending them from my Android phone to an iPhone, changing the meaning of the message inadvertently.
DC-3 8y ago
I agree that they are unprofessional. As far as I can determine, some people feel that they make a project or community seem more inclusive or welcoming - goals which I definitely consider worthwhile. But I don't personally feel that they are helpful in this persuit. Who are you trying to be inclusive of, seven year olds?
- vertex-four 8y ago
  Outside of your friend group, most of us have been using smileys and emoticons in day-to-day chat for years - the presence of rich emoticons used to set messenger platforms aside from each other - and emojis are simply the latest generation of that. They’re primarily useful for providing some emotional context to some text - and whether displaying emotion is professional or not is really down to personal preference.
  - wool_gather 8y ago
    Maybe I'm just a robot, but by and large I don't believe that log or commit messages require emotional context. (I do use emoji for some messaging, Slack specifically.)
simias 8y ago
I never use emojis (I'm not even sure how people manage to input them on a keyboard, I assume they're using mobile devices?) but I try to avoid the kneejerk reaction of hating on them, they're mostly harmless. It's very tempting to go on a "back in my days we couldn't even put accents in commit messages" rant but in the end it doesn't really matter. If it makes writing commit messages more fun and it means that people will make more of an effort to come up with descriptive messages then I say amazing. I can't count the number of open source projects where people write absolutely useless commit messages, even coming from projects I respect. I'll take emojis over "several changes, new stuff" or "some other small fixes" (to quote actual commits from an open source project I've been hacking on lately). Of course both things are largely unrelated but I just wanted to point out that there's not a very strong "commit etiquette" in the hacker community as of today, it's not like much of value will be lost by letting kids use emojis in them, and maybe a little could be gained.
- omeid2 8y ago
  > they're mostly harmless. I don't believe that, the confusion around the meaning of emojis are well established[0][1][2][3]. I strongly suspect that the confusion and vagueness is even more predominant in professional communications than personal. Please consider that everyday the likelihood of someone reading your code who is from a different culture or context is even higher, somethings might seem obvious to us, but that is not necessarily objectively so. If you think I am making an argument for using plain and simple language and not just avoid emoji, you're right, that is the point. From a pure economic point of view, considering the arguably nonexistence value emojis provide, any risk or cost is too much. 0. https://www.businessinsider.com/science-reveals-the-most-confusing-emoji-2016-4/?r=AU&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/science-reveals-the-most-con... 1. http://fortune.com/2016/04/14/emoji-miscommunication-study-umn/ http://fortune.com/2016/04/14/emoji-miscommunication-study-u... 2. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3549376/Frustrated-triumphant-probably-sending-wrong-signals-using-12-commonly-misunderstood-emojis.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3549376/Frust... 3. https://www.mrporter.com/journal/modern-problems/the-most-confusing-emojis-explained/1986 https://www.mrporter.com/journal/modern-problems/the-most-co...
matt4077 8y ago
I can't really see how emojis are "vague", or ambiguous. And even if: ambiguity is a great feature in any form of communication, by allowing us, for example, to express criticism early and subtle, defusing social problems before they blow up. I also think you're placing to much value on some vague notion of "professionalism" which seems to exclude all emotion and any fun. "Professionalism" in this sense stymies business success by, for example, prohibiting the effective means of communication people choose for themselves with some nebulous argument to appearances.
- omeid2 8y ago
  See my response to sibling comment. Emojis are a very poor language and very culture dependent far more than words in a natural language like English or whatever.
bschwindHN 8y ago
You sound like a very Serious and Professional Adult, feel free to ignore our Fisher-Price word-pictures.

by omeid2 8y ago

oblio 8y ago

Assuming we're talking about commit messages and such, you're probably right. But in day-to-day chats they're useful. Text is extremely bad at conveying emotion and nuance. Stuff like humor, sarcasm, irony is really hard to transmit, especially with more people. A well placed emoji/smiley can help.

DC-3 8y ago
I agree with this. I'm certainly not averse to dropping a :-) or emoji equivalent when appropriate. But emoji party hats every time a PR is merged, or READMEs covered with emoji, or worse of all, CLIs that use emoji in them are annoying to me and I don't understand the appeal.
type0 8y ago
> talking about commit messages I heard that for some folks it makes it easier to find the right commits, unfortunately it's the opposite of being inclusive because other collaborators can become easily distracted by them.

Aeolun 8y ago

I am baffled by your assertion that they convey little meaning. Do facial expressions also convey little meaning? To me the combination of both gives a hell of a lot more to base interpretation of tone on.

tehbeard 8y ago
1. The size of emoji makes them difficult to grok, probably more so when you have to context switch between language comprehension and determining the emotion of the face. Also factor in how they look different on different platforms. 2. What about emoji's that aren't faces, or that have taken on a different meaning (see, eggplant or that infernal clapping emoji that's taken over twitter)
toomanybeersies 8y ago
The issue I have with emojis is that they are rendered different on different fonts/devices, and because of this they can convey a different meaning.
- Klathmon 8y ago
  And text is read wildly differently depending on the readers's culture, mood, font, and how well they know the language. Communication is messy as hell, and the fact that emoji's render differently doesn't add that much confusion in most cases (of course there are the odd watergun vs revolver emoji problems, but the worst offenders are slowly being brought into line)
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    If I send a text message from Android to iPhone, the message is the same. Obviously there's cultural differences etc. but I can usually work with those if I know the person I'm sending a message to. However, emojis can change when sending them from my Android phone to an iPhone, changing the meaning of the message inadvertently.

DC-3 8y ago

I agree that they are unprofessional. As far as I can determine, some people feel that they make a project or community seem more inclusive or welcoming - goals which I definitely consider worthwhile. But I don't personally feel that they are helpful in this persuit. Who are you trying to be inclusive of, seven year olds?

vertex-four 8y ago
Outside of your friend group, most of us have been using smileys and emoticons in day-to-day chat for years - the presence of rich emoticons used to set messenger platforms aside from each other - and emojis are simply the latest generation of that. They’re primarily useful for providing some emotional context to some text - and whether displaying emotion is professional or not is really down to personal preference.
- wool_gather 8y ago
  Maybe I'm just a robot, but by and large I don't believe that log or commit messages require emotional context. (I do use emoji for some messaging, Slack specifically.)

simias 8y ago

I never use emojis (I'm not even sure how people manage to input them on a keyboard, I assume they're using mobile devices?) but I try to avoid the kneejerk reaction of hating on them, they're mostly harmless. It's very tempting to go on a "back in my days we couldn't even put accents in commit messages" rant but in the end it doesn't really matter. If it makes writing commit messages more fun and it means that people will make more of an effort to come up with descriptive messages then I say amazing. I can't count the number of open source projects where people write absolutely useless commit messages, even coming from projects I respect. I'll take emojis over "several changes, new stuff" or "some other small fixes" (to quote actual commits from an open source project I've been hacking on lately). Of course both things are largely unrelated but I just wanted to point out that there's not a very strong "commit etiquette" in the hacker community as of today, it's not like much of value will be lost by letting kids use emojis in them, and maybe a little could be gained.

omeid2 8y ago
> they're mostly harmless. I don't believe that, the confusion around the meaning of emojis are well established[0][1][2][3]. I strongly suspect that the confusion and vagueness is even more predominant in professional communications than personal. Please consider that everyday the likelihood of someone reading your code who is from a different culture or context is even higher, somethings might seem obvious to us, but that is not necessarily objectively so. If you think I am making an argument for using plain and simple language and not just avoid emoji, you're right, that is the point. From a pure economic point of view, considering the arguably nonexistence value emojis provide, any risk or cost is too much. 0. https://www.businessinsider.com/science-reveals-the-most-confusing-emoji-2016-4/?r=AU&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/science-reveals-the-most-con... 1. http://fortune.com/2016/04/14/emoji-miscommunication-study-umn/ http://fortune.com/2016/04/14/emoji-miscommunication-study-u... 2. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3549376/Frustrated-triumphant-probably-sending-wrong-signals-using-12-commonly-misunderstood-emojis.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3549376/Frust... 3. https://www.mrporter.com/journal/modern-problems/the-most-confusing-emojis-explained/1986 https://www.mrporter.com/journal/modern-problems/the-most-co...

matt4077 8y ago

I can't really see how emojis are "vague", or ambiguous. And even if: ambiguity is a great feature in any form of communication, by allowing us, for example, to express criticism early and subtle, defusing social problems before they blow up. I also think you're placing to much value on some vague notion of "professionalism" which seems to exclude all emotion and any fun. "Professionalism" in this sense stymies business success by, for example, prohibiting the effective means of communication people choose for themselves with some nebulous argument to appearances.

omeid2 8y ago
See my response to sibling comment. Emojis are a very poor language and very culture dependent far more than words in a natural language like English or whatever.

bschwindHN 8y ago

You sound like a very Serious and Professional Adult, feel free to ignore our Fisher-Price word-pictures.