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i find receiving advice to be difficult because the other person essentially places himself above you. That is why i try to be careful with dishing out too much

i find receiving advice to be difficult because the other person essentially places himself above you. That is why i try to be careful with dishing out too much advice. But sometimes its necessary. and sometimes i just cannot help it. if i give advice, i try to do it in a non-personal way. like 'i just found a cool trick to do y' rather than 'you are doing it like x, but doing y would be better'.

Aeolun 8y ago
I do too, but I’ve recently found out that’s really hard to do if there’s a completely different but much better way.
mkirklions 8y ago
After going ballistic on 'stupid' people on twitter and getting quite negative feedback on such, I'm done giving advice. People were propagating wrong information in my specialty and I lost it. I even provided them with factual/math proof and it didnt matter. Now I'm over it, if they want to find the information, they can. Otherwise they get to fail without my help.
- growlist 8y ago
  Group dynamics come into play as well. I guess everyone at one time or another has made a comment that has been ignored or disparaged, only for one of the in-crowd to make the exact same statement and receive a positive response. I've learnt over time to spot toxic situations like this and remove myself from them, but sometimes circumstances make that impossible, which is depressing.
- maccard 8y ago
  How you deliver the advice is as important as what advice you give. There's a difference between: "Hey, I saw your thoughts on X, but actually here's some info that says you're incorrect" and "You're wrong. Here is proof, please read it and stop spreading worthless information" Based on the tone of your comment, is it possible that your delivery may be too harsh?
  - phkahler 8y ago
    "Hey, I saw your thoughts on X, but actually here's some info that says you're incorrect" How about "here's some info that..." anything but offering proof that they are incorrect.
tchaffee 8y ago
Interpersonal skills really come into play. Every situation is different. What you are describing sounds like an interaction with an equal. Which might end up having to be more of a sales pitch for your idea than giving advice. There are plenty of situations where the difference in experience calls for a more assertive approach. Senior dev to junior dev, or even expert to client. Selling an idea takes time, and if you were hired to be the expert you sometimes have to just insist and give strong advice in the interest of efficiency. Not everyone junior will be convinced by authority, but enough are that it saves a great deal of time.
growlist 8y ago
It's amazing - and sad - how powerful the ego (for want of a better term) can be. A colleague complained about a nasty rash from using a particular cleaning fluid during DIY and when I suggested, in a very gentle way, a far gentler yet comparably effective alternative he seemed annoyed by the suggestion of something that would help him. Some people will just throw things back in your face even when your advice is well intentioned, freely given, and beneficial to them in an immediately apparent way.
- phkahler 8y ago
  Context is important. Your colleague got a nasty rash from what they did. You offering an alternative could be received as criticism or even blaming them for the rash. The time for offering corrections is probably not while they are suffering the consequences of their action. You are right of course - people can be tricky in such situations.
  - asdfman123 8y ago
    It's also possible that the person you're replying to is completely tone deaf to the signals they've been sending out and people are lashing out of them due to an ongoing pattern of behavior. Usually when someone says "I've been completely normal -- I don't understand why people are so sensitive!" it's a red flag that that sort of thing has been going on.
  - growlist 8y ago
    I see your point, but he had not finished the job and so my advice was potentially of real benefit! My workplace is a bit cliquey and no doubt if I were in the circle of trust things would be different. I guess the one positive is that next time I know to let him suffer in ignorance :|
- jacobolus 8y ago
  Often (usually?) when someone is coming to complain to you, they are looking for your listening/sympathy/validation/support, not your advice. If they wanted your advice they would typically ask for it explicitly. Unsolicited advice can come across as very unsympathetic and patronizing, and can really piss someone off if they were already in a bad mood (which is pretty common for people complaining about stuff). A more appropriate response is something like “Wow, that sounds pretty uncomfortable.” Then you let them talk for a while. Listen sympathetically and let them say everything they wanted to say before trying to interrupt, and make sure they are receptive before offering unsolicited advice. Usually if you listen to their venting for a while they will feel better than when they started. [Apologies for offering unsolicited critical advice in response to your complaints about your colleague. :) ]
pmichaud 8y ago
I face this issue frequently, and one thing that I find helps is acknowledge what's happening: 1. If you're talking to an actual equal, and you're not sure but you're trying to be helpful, then prefacing with that is good. "Look, you know way more about your problem than I do, but when you asked for advice [they did ask for the advice, right?] the first dumb idea I had was _____" 2. Sometimes you actually are "above" the other person in the context of the advice you're giving. You're actually just an expert and they aren't, for example. In that case you have a couple options that are context dependent. One is to just ask: "Do you mind if I give you some unsolicited advice that maybe you already thought of?" The other is to lampshade it. This works best in cases where the power difference is just objectively obvious. I use this exact phrasing with my daughter: "Do you mind if I patronize you a little? If anyone can patronize anyone it's a father and his daughter, right?" But it works with others as well, for example I'm often in the position of giving life advice to undergrads, and I might say something like "Do you mind if I old-man-patronize you a little? It might be helpful!" I think most of the weird power dynamics and discomfort come from assuming something is common knowledge when it isn't. It may be true that I'm better than you, and even that each of us knows it, but if we haven't mutually acknowledged it to each other and made it common knowledge, then it'll strike an awkward chord when I act like it's true... unless I put it right out there in common knowledge before I start. The same is true if we're equals but I'm giving you advice anyway--it's awkward because... maybe I think we're not equals? If I preface with "we're equals, and in fact you know more than I do here because you're the one in the situation" then it's clear where I'm coming from and it's not awkward. Finally, all the different ways of prefacing above critically give the other person the opportunity to say "actually, no, don't," so they have dignity and agency in the exchange.
- aeontech 8y ago
  This is really good advice, thank you.
- asdfman123 8y ago
  > I think most of the weird power dynamics and discomfort come from assuming something is common knowledge when it isn't. Other weird dynamics and discomfort comes from assuming when something isn't common knowledge when it is. "Have you tried X"? No shit, X is the first thing that I tried.

Aeolun 8y ago

I do too, but I’ve recently found out that’s really hard to do if there’s a completely different but much better way.

mkirklions 8y ago

After going ballistic on 'stupid' people on twitter and getting quite negative feedback on such, I'm done giving advice. People were propagating wrong information in my specialty and I lost it. I even provided them with factual/math proof and it didnt matter. Now I'm over it, if they want to find the information, they can. Otherwise they get to fail without my help.

growlist 8y ago
Group dynamics come into play as well. I guess everyone at one time or another has made a comment that has been ignored or disparaged, only for one of the in-crowd to make the exact same statement and receive a positive response. I've learnt over time to spot toxic situations like this and remove myself from them, but sometimes circumstances make that impossible, which is depressing.
maccard 8y ago
How you deliver the advice is as important as what advice you give. There's a difference between: "Hey, I saw your thoughts on X, but actually here's some info that says you're incorrect" and "You're wrong. Here is proof, please read it and stop spreading worthless information" Based on the tone of your comment, is it possible that your delivery may be too harsh?
- phkahler 8y ago
  "Hey, I saw your thoughts on X, but actually here's some info that says you're incorrect" How about "here's some info that..." anything but offering proof that they are incorrect.

tchaffee 8y ago

Interpersonal skills really come into play. Every situation is different. What you are describing sounds like an interaction with an equal. Which might end up having to be more of a sales pitch for your idea than giving advice. There are plenty of situations where the difference in experience calls for a more assertive approach. Senior dev to junior dev, or even expert to client. Selling an idea takes time, and if you were hired to be the expert you sometimes have to just insist and give strong advice in the interest of efficiency. Not everyone junior will be convinced by authority, but enough are that it saves a great deal of time.

growlist 8y ago

It's amazing - and sad - how powerful the ego (for want of a better term) can be. A colleague complained about a nasty rash from using a particular cleaning fluid during DIY and when I suggested, in a very gentle way, a far gentler yet comparably effective alternative he seemed annoyed by the suggestion of something that would help him. Some people will just throw things back in your face even when your advice is well intentioned, freely given, and beneficial to them in an immediately apparent way.

phkahler 8y ago
Context is important. Your colleague got a nasty rash from what they did. You offering an alternative could be received as criticism or even blaming them for the rash. The time for offering corrections is probably not while they are suffering the consequences of their action. You are right of course - people can be tricky in such situations.
- asdfman123 8y ago
  It's also possible that the person you're replying to is completely tone deaf to the signals they've been sending out and people are lashing out of them due to an ongoing pattern of behavior. Usually when someone says "I've been completely normal -- I don't understand why people are so sensitive!" it's a red flag that that sort of thing has been going on.
- growlist 8y ago
  I see your point, but he had not finished the job and so my advice was potentially of real benefit! My workplace is a bit cliquey and no doubt if I were in the circle of trust things would be different. I guess the one positive is that next time I know to let him suffer in ignorance :|
jacobolus 8y ago
Often (usually?) when someone is coming to complain to you, they are looking for your listening/sympathy/validation/support, not your advice. If they wanted your advice they would typically ask for it explicitly. Unsolicited advice can come across as very unsympathetic and patronizing, and can really piss someone off if they were already in a bad mood (which is pretty common for people complaining about stuff). A more appropriate response is something like “Wow, that sounds pretty uncomfortable.” Then you let them talk for a while. Listen sympathetically and let them say everything they wanted to say before trying to interrupt, and make sure they are receptive before offering unsolicited advice. Usually if you listen to their venting for a while they will feel better than when they started. [Apologies for offering unsolicited critical advice in response to your complaints about your colleague. :) ]

pmichaud 8y ago

I face this issue frequently, and one thing that I find helps is acknowledge what's happening: 1. If you're talking to an actual equal, and you're not sure but you're trying to be helpful, then prefacing with that is good. "Look, you know way more about your problem than I do, but when you asked for advice [they did ask for the advice, right?] the first dumb idea I had was _____" 2. Sometimes you actually are "above" the other person in the context of the advice you're giving. You're actually just an expert and they aren't, for example. In that case you have a couple options that are context dependent. One is to just ask: "Do you mind if I give you some unsolicited advice that maybe you already thought of?" The other is to lampshade it. This works best in cases where the power difference is just objectively obvious. I use this exact phrasing with my daughter: "Do you mind if I patronize you a little? If anyone can patronize anyone it's a father and his daughter, right?" But it works with others as well, for example I'm often in the position of giving life advice to undergrads, and I might say something like "Do you mind if I old-man-patronize you a little? It might be helpful!" I think most of the weird power dynamics and discomfort come from assuming something is common knowledge when it isn't. It may be true that I'm better than you, and even that each of us knows it, but if we haven't mutually acknowledged it to each other and made it common knowledge, then it'll strike an awkward chord when I act like it's true... unless I put it right out there in common knowledge before I start. The same is true if we're equals but I'm giving you advice anyway--it's awkward because... maybe I think we're not equals? If I preface with "we're equals, and in fact you know more than I do here because you're the one in the situation" then it's clear where I'm coming from and it's not awkward. Finally, all the different ways of prefacing above critically give the other person the opportunity to say "actually, no, don't," so they have dignity and agency in the exchange.

aeontech 8y ago
This is really good advice, thank you.
asdfman123 8y ago
> I think most of the weird power dynamics and discomfort come from assuming something is common knowledge when it isn't. Other weird dynamics and discomfort comes from assuming when something isn't common knowledge when it is. "Have you tried X"? No shit, X is the first thing that I tried.