6 ms·

People seem to be intepreting this as "OMG now we can build a new social network and convert users easily!" Users still aren't going to leave Facebook. Facebo

by frisco 16y ago

People seem to be intepreting this as "OMG now we can build a new social network and convert users easily!" Users still aren't going to leave Facebook. Facebook realizes this, which is why they can do this now. Your mother's cousin is on Facebook. She won't be on Diaspora or (X). That said, this is pretty cool for its own reasons. Like waterlesscloud said, it looks like they "want to be the source of all social interactions on the web without having monolithic control." This is definitely a smart move for Facebook -- be willing to give a little on data portability to position themselves as open. Facebook has a gigantic ecosystem. Thousands of sites use Facebook Connect to provide social context and are predicated on everyone interesting have a Facebook account. A social network is a very complicated webapp -- probably the most complex many of its users interact with on a daily basis -- and literally hundreds of millions of users don't want to have to re-learn that. Remember that we're talking about here: take, for example, the http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_your_one_true_login.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_yo... incident. They have such tremendous inertia that even being able to one-click import your data to another app isn't likely to damage them. This move is kind of like Jobs saying, "all smartphones have problems. We're not perfect. But we're trying to do the best of anyone." At least for the moment, it's changed the discourse from "wow Facebook supports developers terribly" to "hey, Facebook's not entirely a walled garden!": what Scott Adam's called the "high ground maneuver".

avar 16y ago
They might leave Facebook if something comes along that's much better, and importing your data is one click away. The biggest advantage Facebook has is that it has your data, being able to export it changes the game.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- ugh 16y ago
  You’ve got it backwards. The biggest advantage Facebook has is that 500 million people have an account. Facebook would be utterly useless if nobody was using it. Network effects make Facebook hard to beat, not your data. They need your data only to make money but they get your data because you and your mom and everyone else have an account.
  - avar 16y ago
    That's what I mean, they have the data of 500 million people. But if those people want to move on having an easy export feature will make things much easier. When everyone moved from MySpace to Facebook they had to re-do their profile in the new system. Hopefully when FooThingy replaces Facebook importing will be just a click away.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - scott_s 16y ago
      I don't think you agree with his point. Most people have no desire to move on from Facebook not because moving their data is a hassle, but because everyone they know is on Facebook. Everyone didn't move from MySpace to Facebook. Facebook pulled in many, many new people.
      - avar 16y ago
        I really didn't mean to speculate on whether Facebook would be replaced by something else. Maybe they'll become big enough that nothing will ever replace them. But if something does replace them having an API to export the existing data will be critical to the adoption of the new system. Even if all your friends use Facebook now, having an export API is the difference between them clicking on one link (and "approve") to move your data to the new system, and having to start all over again. Lowering the barrier of entry will do a lot to increase competition in this area. Hopefully Facebook will institute meaningful data export policies like Google has done.
        trustfundbaby 16y ago
        I think the data is one part of the equation ... its definitely a 'nice to have' feature on the next shiny social media app, but you have to remember a lot of the data posted on facebook by people isn't all that valuable to them anyway (except maybe photos and notes). I think the benefactors of stuff like this are sites like flickr, blogger or tumblr, since it seems you can export out your photos/notes and start a new photostream/blog.
zipdog 16y ago
This is what I was thinking. FB has reached the marketshare where it's fairly safe for them to relax the control they hold, because even if a variety of open rivals appear, using the data that FB releases, FB will still be the centre of the action. Alternatively, there may be a parallel to IBM giving away the PC specs, inadvertently pushing the monopoly down to the OS and weakening their market position (though creating a tech boon for everyone that made the market so much bigger).
Jun8 16y ago
frisco, very well put! "Wind makes a small fire expire but makes a large one bigger", as you state, I guess FB now feels they're pretty much invincible in their user stickiness, so they don't feel threatened. In fact, as people build other services off this data, they'll have even more visibility (if that's possible).
mkinsella 16y ago
That's what people said about MySpace
- tptacek 16y ago
  At its height, how big was MySpace compared to where Facebook is at now? Somebody has always said something like this about some predecessor.
- philwelch 16y ago
  And people have been making your point ever since Facebook opened up to the general population. But MySpace, even in its heyday, wasn't nearly as big as Facebook was a year or two ago.
  - Goladus 16y ago
    It's not the number of people using it that matters so much as who those people are and how they use it. Myspace was most popular among high school kids, indie music culture, and people looking for dates. Many people in their 20s and 30s started using it to keep in touch with old friends and make new contacts but it never grew beyond that. By the time they implemented the news feed, it was too late. Facebook had already gotten the momentum. Now, people (and organizations) of all sorts have Facebook profiles and pages. Families, adults, colleagues, friends, new acquaintances, all use Facebook to stay connected. Sure, the kids will almost certainly find something new to play with soon, but that won't matter anymore. Facebook is huge, and now pretty clearly shows enormous potential to continue growing.
jonmc12 16y ago
The majority of MS windows users don't use Linux either, and the fact that Linux did not run MS apps did not keep a community from pushing forward what an OS and app ecosystem can do. I'm not thinking 'OMG now I can convert users!', I'm saying, 'Cool, I can possibly evolve what a social network can do for me and a group of friends, while working with the FB ecosystem.' Facebook will have to build features for the masses - we can build social networks for the subsets of users. We can convince users to download their piece of the social graph by offering a unique niche experience, and getting creative about what it means to interact socially online for the subsets of the masses. Today's announcement was more than a 'high-road' PR stunt. To extend the linux analogy, FB just made it easy for each user to create a virtual machine where we can run a niche social network side by side with the gigantic ecosystem that is facebook.
jlgbecom 16y ago
The combined size of social networks that aren't Facebook is over 1.5 billion people, probably more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websi... Facebook has the most users in one place, but the dust is nowhere near settled on where everyone will end up. This bodes very well for a decentralized solution. I doubt Diaspora will be the first (I think Appleseed (http://opensource.appleseedproject.org http://opensource.appleseedproject.org) is much more likely), but ultimately, it will be an easily implemented protocol with mature cross-platform libraries that'll really take it down. This is a good PR move on Facebook's part, because it willfully misinterprets people's frustrations with Facebook. It's not that you didn't have a local copy of your data, it's that you had no control over your data when it was out in the wild. This will take some wind out of the sails of the decentralized solutions, but the armada is still coming.
- frisco 16y ago
  > The combined size of social networks that aren't Facebook is over 1.5 billion people, probably more. How much of that overlaps with Facebook? Approximately 500 million? Also, they're measuring total registrations: FB has probably close to a billion registrations on their 500 million actives. All that statistic tells you is that FB has room to grow.
  - jlgbecom 16y ago
    Let's assume there's total overlap, meaning everyone who has a non-FB account also has a FB account. Now let's assume all of those smaller, but substantially sized, networks started inter-communicating. Who would stay on Facebook? Why would you stay on the centralized network with 500 million people when you can spend all your time on the open network with 1.5 - 2 billion people? As for active versus registrations, we can't be sure of that from anyone, but rest assured, a decentralized network has much greater potential than Facebook does. Especially in the rest of the world where Facebook isn't nearly as popular.
    - Qz 16y ago
eogas 16y ago
>Your mother's cousin is on Facebook. She won't be on Diaspora or (X). All the more reason to use Diaspora or (X).
- chrischen 16y ago
  Yea as facebook becomes more mainstream the hip people will need a new place to go.
  - eogas 16y ago
    Exactly. Just as tumblr is to blogger and Vimeo is to youtube, Diaspora will become the hipster alternative to Facebook. Totally called it.
    - chrischen 16y ago
      Well not necessarily Diaspora...

by frisco 16y ago

avar 16y ago

They might leave Facebook if something comes along that's much better, and importing your data is one click away. The biggest advantage Facebook has is that it has your data, being able to export it changes the game.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
ugh 16y ago
You’ve got it backwards. The biggest advantage Facebook has is that 500 million people have an account. Facebook would be utterly useless if nobody was using it. Network effects make Facebook hard to beat, not your data. They need your data only to make money but they get your data because you and your mom and everyone else have an account.
- avar 16y ago
  That's what I mean, they have the data of 500 million people. But if those people want to move on having an easy export feature will make things much easier. When everyone moved from MySpace to Facebook they had to re-do their profile in the new system. Hopefully when FooThingy replaces Facebook importing will be just a click away.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - scott_s 16y ago
    I don't think you agree with his point. Most people have no desire to move on from Facebook not because moving their data is a hassle, but because everyone they know is on Facebook. Everyone didn't move from MySpace to Facebook. Facebook pulled in many, many new people.
    - avar 16y ago
      I really didn't mean to speculate on whether Facebook would be replaced by something else. Maybe they'll become big enough that nothing will ever replace them. But if something does replace them having an API to export the existing data will be critical to the adoption of the new system. Even if all your friends use Facebook now, having an export API is the difference between them clicking on one link (and "approve") to move your data to the new system, and having to start all over again. Lowering the barrier of entry will do a lot to increase competition in this area. Hopefully Facebook will institute meaningful data export policies like Google has done.
      - trustfundbaby 16y ago
        I think the data is one part of the equation ... its definitely a 'nice to have' feature on the next shiny social media app, but you have to remember a lot of the data posted on facebook by people isn't all that valuable to them anyway (except maybe photos and notes). I think the benefactors of stuff like this are sites like flickr, blogger or tumblr, since it seems you can export out your photos/notes and start a new photostream/blog.

zipdog 16y ago

This is what I was thinking. FB has reached the marketshare where it's fairly safe for them to relax the control they hold, because even if a variety of open rivals appear, using the data that FB releases, FB will still be the centre of the action. Alternatively, there may be a parallel to IBM giving away the PC specs, inadvertently pushing the monopoly down to the OS and weakening their market position (though creating a tech boon for everyone that made the market so much bigger).

Jun8 16y ago

frisco, very well put! "Wind makes a small fire expire but makes a large one bigger", as you state, I guess FB now feels they're pretty much invincible in their user stickiness, so they don't feel threatened. In fact, as people build other services off this data, they'll have even more visibility (if that's possible).

mkinsella 16y ago

That's what people said about MySpace

tptacek 16y ago
At its height, how big was MySpace compared to where Facebook is at now? Somebody has always said something like this about some predecessor.
philwelch 16y ago
And people have been making your point ever since Facebook opened up to the general population. But MySpace, even in its heyday, wasn't nearly as big as Facebook was a year or two ago.
- Goladus 16y ago
  It's not the number of people using it that matters so much as who those people are and how they use it. Myspace was most popular among high school kids, indie music culture, and people looking for dates. Many people in their 20s and 30s started using it to keep in touch with old friends and make new contacts but it never grew beyond that. By the time they implemented the news feed, it was too late. Facebook had already gotten the momentum. Now, people (and organizations) of all sorts have Facebook profiles and pages. Families, adults, colleagues, friends, new acquaintances, all use Facebook to stay connected. Sure, the kids will almost certainly find something new to play with soon, but that won't matter anymore. Facebook is huge, and now pretty clearly shows enormous potential to continue growing.

jonmc12 16y ago

The majority of MS windows users don't use Linux either, and the fact that Linux did not run MS apps did not keep a community from pushing forward what an OS and app ecosystem can do. I'm not thinking 'OMG now I can convert users!', I'm saying, 'Cool, I can possibly evolve what a social network can do for me and a group of friends, while working with the FB ecosystem.' Facebook will have to build features for the masses - we can build social networks for the subsets of users. We can convince users to download their piece of the social graph by offering a unique niche experience, and getting creative about what it means to interact socially online for the subsets of the masses. Today's announcement was more than a 'high-road' PR stunt. To extend the linux analogy, FB just made it easy for each user to create a virtual machine where we can run a niche social network side by side with the gigantic ecosystem that is facebook.

jlgbecom 16y ago

The combined size of social networks that aren't Facebook is over 1.5 billion people, probably more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websi... Facebook has the most users in one place, but the dust is nowhere near settled on where everyone will end up. This bodes very well for a decentralized solution. I doubt Diaspora will be the first (I think Appleseed (http://opensource.appleseedproject.org http://opensource.appleseedproject.org) is much more likely), but ultimately, it will be an easily implemented protocol with mature cross-platform libraries that'll really take it down. This is a good PR move on Facebook's part, because it willfully misinterprets people's frustrations with Facebook. It's not that you didn't have a local copy of your data, it's that you had no control over your data when it was out in the wild. This will take some wind out of the sails of the decentralized solutions, but the armada is still coming.

frisco 16y ago
> The combined size of social networks that aren't Facebook is over 1.5 billion people, probably more. How much of that overlaps with Facebook? Approximately 500 million? Also, they're measuring total registrations: FB has probably close to a billion registrations on their 500 million actives. All that statistic tells you is that FB has room to grow.
- jlgbecom 16y ago
  Let's assume there's total overlap, meaning everyone who has a non-FB account also has a FB account. Now let's assume all of those smaller, but substantially sized, networks started inter-communicating. Who would stay on Facebook? Why would you stay on the centralized network with 500 million people when you can spend all your time on the open network with 1.5 - 2 billion people? As for active versus registrations, we can't be sure of that from anyone, but rest assured, a decentralized network has much greater potential than Facebook does. Especially in the rest of the world where Facebook isn't nearly as popular.
  - Qz 16y ago

eogas 16y ago

>Your mother's cousin is on Facebook. She won't be on Diaspora or (X). All the more reason to use Diaspora or (X).

chrischen 16y ago
Yea as facebook becomes more mainstream the hip people will need a new place to go.
- eogas 16y ago
  Exactly. Just as tumblr is to blogger and Vimeo is to youtube, Diaspora will become the hipster alternative to Facebook. Totally called it.
  - chrischen 16y ago
    Well not necessarily Diaspora...