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I'll take this opportunity to ask the community, what is a recommend router? It's going to be me and my roommate only (with friends and family over) and I woul

I'll take this opportunity to ask the community, what is a recommend router? It's going to be me and my roommate only (with friends and family over) and I would like to get something secure and also reliable (and preferably on the cheaper side) Any suggestions? I believe we have Cox if that is any factor....

ronnier 8y ago
I use one is the ASUS ones and like it. But from my understanding is that security wise, all consumer routers are bad. I have nothing to back up that claim with. I keep mine as updated as possible.
- HankB99 8y ago
  I have an Asus router too. (RT-AC68W - W => white) It used to provide my security and as near as I can tell it did a reasonably good job of it. Things that lead me to believe it rates as above average: - Does not enable management on the WAN port by default. - Reasonably frequent updates - Not named as often as some other brands when security problems are publicized. - I think it made me enter a management password when I first set it up, but it's been a while and I can't be certain about that. OTOH I just searched "RT-AC68W security problems" and there seems to be no shortage of problems. :( Some time ago I decided to get a little more serious about security and put a mini-PC running pfsense between my home LAN and the Internet. Hopefully that is more secure though a similar search wouldn't prove that. Perusing some of the critical vulnerabilities at cvedetails.com seems to show that the only critical vulnerability for either of these is for versions of the software older than what I'm running. And I also see the flashing yellow "!" on the Asus management page that indicates an update is available. That latter part is really a concern. I don't get a notification for an update unless I go look for it. Logging to either is not something I do every day.
Osmium 8y ago
In particular, recommendations for consumer routers would be welcome. Last time this came up, the line seemed to be "consumer routers are trash, if you want security you have to use an enterprise router." There might be some truth in this, but it isn't helpful. Surely not all consumer routers are equally bad?
- zrm 8y ago
  So there are two main issues with consumer routers. The first is that the hardware is garbage. This isn't universally true, but it's a strong general rule, and models get released and discontinued all the time so the short list of models that aren't garbage changes every year. The main security issue is that the vendors stop issuing security updates after they stop selling the router even though people are still using it, and the software that comes on it is usually crap to begin with. The solution to this is to get one you can install OpenWRT or Debian or whatever you prefer on it, do that as soon as you buy it and then it doesn't matter what the vendor does. But note that not all routers are supported by the software you want to use. Also remember that a router is just a computer with multiple network ports on it. Adding another network port to your old laptop is a time-honored tradition. The hardware will be faster, the drivers are usually better, it has a built-in battery to survive power bumps, etc.
  - HankB99 8y ago
    My first firewall was a Thinkpad 750Cs. ;) I can't recall the distro I was running at the time - likely Debian or Slackware. At one point I returned from vacation to find that the hard drive had failed a couple days earlier. Since the firewalling was in the kernel, all I lost was logging. IIRC the last log message was that it was remounting the root filesystem readonly. It continued operating for a couple more weeks until I could arrange to replace it.
  - zanny 8y ago
    I've always wanted to just use an old junk PC as a router instead of paying for what is basically an overpriced Pi with a 4 jack ethernet card attached. But the problem then is that getting enough ethernet ports in the thing to equal the average router is price prohibitive. I wish there were $20-$30 PCI-E bridge cards of >2 1Gbit ethernet jacks but they don't exist.
    - untangle 8y ago
      Dual-port start at $18 on amzn ($35 for Intel)? But single-port will do ($12). The add pfSense, Untangle, etc. to complete the solution.
justaj 8y ago
Albeit a bit expensive, Turris Omnia is fully open source down to schematics level. It's also pretty beefy with dual-core ARM CPU at 1.6 GHz and 1 GB DDR3. Its documentation is however a bit lacking unfortunately.
- pimeys 8y ago
  Been running a home network with over ten devices and a fast internet connection with an Omnia Turris for almost two years now. It gets regular updates automatically, is fast and the UI is nice. Fixing things like bufferbloat was easy with the community instructions. Oh and it's openwrt under the hood, with lxc containers for things such as grafana.
  - NickBusey 8y ago
    Careful if you started using lxc like I did before they added warnings not to use them with the internal flash storage. You need to have added additional storage via the mSATA slot, and designate that as your storage location before using lxc. Otherwise according to Turris you will burn through your internal memory very quickly.
agentx3r 8y ago
Ubiquiti makes great prosumer stuff, if you're willing to pay ~$120 for the 'router', and then another ~$100 for the wireless access point. That's not 'cheap', but it's about on par what you'd pay for a fancy consumer router that looks like a spaceship. You'll get a great interface, frequent firmware updates with new features and security fixes, and you'll have a good strong signal at your neighbour's house if you're going for a visit.
- ipython 8y ago
  You can get the EdgeRouter X for ~$50 and that will scale to symmetric gigabit connections, if your needs are simple (ie. you're just doing basic routing & firewalling, not trying to do traffic shaping, etc). Budget AP option then is a UAP-AC-Lite which you can buy off Amazon for ~$80, bringing your total to $130 all said and done. That's cheaper than most all-in-one routers, and while you won't get the best single-client bandwidth, you will get much better management/configuration options.
  - wtallis 8y ago
    > That's cheaper than most all-in-one routers, It really isn't. There are plenty of consumer router+AP combos in the $75-90 range that offer equal or better performance to the ER-X + UAP-AC-Lite combination.
    - copperx 8y ago
      Such as ...?
      - semi-extrinsic 8y ago
        Not OP, but I've been very happy with a $60 Buffalo N300, running since 2015 with no issues. I run DD-WRT on it, 200 Mbit symmetric fiber uplink, 3 devices connected via ethernet and the rest via wifi covering the whole (wooden) house, and I have port forwards for ssh and https to the server in the garage. Does everything I need and more. I've been looking for an excuse to go down the Ubiquiti route, but I really can't find one.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
nextos 8y ago
I'm using a Compulab Fitlet 2 (a really nice and cheap fanless Intel machine with multiple Ethernet ports designed for Linux) and NixOS. It's easy to set up and run multiple services (think XMPP, ssh, IP over DNS...).
mattnewton 8y ago
I used to use Apple routers. They were pricey but reliable and very easy to configure, especially from inside the apple ecosystem. Now? I have no idea what I’ll upgrade to when the time comes.
rb808 8y ago
I have always used consumer routers and they worked great. I finally got persuaded by the "consumer routers are garbage" attitude and bought an Ubiquiti edgerouter and instantly regretted it. Yes I can now do very complex configurations and control lots of things I couldn't before. But I really dont want to do that and I can't notice the difference in performance so it was a bit of a waste. My guess the if you get a wireless router, wifi signal strength is most important part, aside from that any mainstream router is probably OK.
- wtallis 8y ago
  > and I can't notice the difference in performance so it was a bit of a waste. That's because Ubiquiti Edgerouters and APs use the same processors and radios as consumer routers. If there's any truth to the memes about hardware quality, then the differences lie in things like the power supplies. Most of the perceived improvement in stability that Ubiquiti Edgerouters offer comes from having software that is actively maintained and not stuck on decade-old software branches. You can get all the same software benefits (more, really) by running OpenWRT on consumer hardware.
  - Piskvorrr 8y ago
    ...if you're willing to actively maintain your setup. Probably a safe assumption here; for a normal user, that would be too much of a burden.
legulere 8y ago
AVM Fritz!box
philipri 8y ago
I'm actually pretty happy with my Netgear Velop mesh system. I had a Netgear Nighthawk X8, but when I moved it was great for the new house. The Velop mesh has been seamless.
notriddle 8y ago
Do Synology routers count as consumer?
ebikelaw 8y ago
I've had my Google OnHub for three years now and it works flawlessly, regularly updating itself without any detectable downtime. It is by far the longest that I've had any wifi access point, and it is the only one I haven't had to personally check and update for security issues.
wmf 8y ago
Since this thread is about security: Google WiFi. It has secure boot and it auto-updates (although there seem to be few updates released lately).
- auslander 8y ago
  Device from Ad company with access to all your traffic? No, thanks.
milcron 8y ago
This is quite possibly overkill, but I'm pleased with this setup at home: Cost | Purpose | What $109 | Router | PCEngines apu2c2 http://pcengines.ch/apu2c2.htm $10 | Router Case | http://pcengines.ch/case1d2blku.htm $17 | Router Storage | http://pcengines.ch/msata16g.htm $30 | Gigabit Switch | https://www.amazon.com/D-Link-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Desktop-DGS-108/dp/B000BCC0LO/ $80 | Wifi | Ubiquiti Unifi Lite https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Lite-UAPACLITEUS/dp/B015PR20GY/ With this setup, the router only does _routing_, so you also need a Wireless Access Point (WAP). Connect it like so: Modem->Router->Switch->WAP. Install pfSense on the router, configure the Unifi using Ubiquiti's Java app, and you're done. It's about $250 all together which _is_ more expensive than consumer routers, but IMHO it's worth the superior quality. The APU board is well-documented (PCEngines provides schematics!) and the firmware is based on Coreboot. The processor supports AES acceleration for faster encryption (great if you use VPNs!) PfSense is an enterprise-grade router/firewall with scads of graphs and features. And the Unifi has a great antenna with excellent range. Not to mention this setup leaves you with six spare ethernet ports on the switch.
kqr 8y ago
I did something slightly different: I was donated various low-power, low-noise PC parts from a friend, one of which was a motherboard with two ethernet ports. Chucked FreeBSD on it, configured one port as WAN and the other LAN, connected LAN to cheap-ish switch and from there also to wifi bridge. Never had a better setup. It blows any consumer router I've used out of the water in terms of stability, performance, flexibility, security, and user experience. Getting emails for potential security issues, custom DNS domain for local network, fail2ban bruteforce prevention, QoS, alerting when WAN goes down, and so on, has all been a breeze to set up.
fghtr 8y ago
I would recommend an FSF-certified ThinkPenguin router that respects your freedom: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/thinkpenguin https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/thinkpenguin

ronnier 8y ago

I use one is the ASUS ones and like it. But from my understanding is that security wise, all consumer routers are bad. I have nothing to back up that claim with. I keep mine as updated as possible.

HankB99 8y ago
I have an Asus router too. (RT-AC68W - W => white) It used to provide my security and as near as I can tell it did a reasonably good job of it. Things that lead me to believe it rates as above average: - Does not enable management on the WAN port by default. - Reasonably frequent updates - Not named as often as some other brands when security problems are publicized. - I think it made me enter a management password when I first set it up, but it's been a while and I can't be certain about that. OTOH I just searched "RT-AC68W security problems" and there seems to be no shortage of problems. :( Some time ago I decided to get a little more serious about security and put a mini-PC running pfsense between my home LAN and the Internet. Hopefully that is more secure though a similar search wouldn't prove that. Perusing some of the critical vulnerabilities at cvedetails.com seems to show that the only critical vulnerability for either of these is for versions of the software older than what I'm running. And I also see the flashing yellow "!" on the Asus management page that indicates an update is available. That latter part is really a concern. I don't get a notification for an update unless I go look for it. Logging to either is not something I do every day.

Osmium 8y ago

In particular, recommendations for consumer routers would be welcome. Last time this came up, the line seemed to be "consumer routers are trash, if you want security you have to use an enterprise router." There might be some truth in this, but it isn't helpful. Surely not all consumer routers are equally bad?

zrm 8y ago
So there are two main issues with consumer routers. The first is that the hardware is garbage. This isn't universally true, but it's a strong general rule, and models get released and discontinued all the time so the short list of models that aren't garbage changes every year. The main security issue is that the vendors stop issuing security updates after they stop selling the router even though people are still using it, and the software that comes on it is usually crap to begin with. The solution to this is to get one you can install OpenWRT or Debian or whatever you prefer on it, do that as soon as you buy it and then it doesn't matter what the vendor does. But note that not all routers are supported by the software you want to use. Also remember that a router is just a computer with multiple network ports on it. Adding another network port to your old laptop is a time-honored tradition. The hardware will be faster, the drivers are usually better, it has a built-in battery to survive power bumps, etc.
- HankB99 8y ago
  My first firewall was a Thinkpad 750Cs. ;) I can't recall the distro I was running at the time - likely Debian or Slackware. At one point I returned from vacation to find that the hard drive had failed a couple days earlier. Since the firewalling was in the kernel, all I lost was logging. IIRC the last log message was that it was remounting the root filesystem readonly. It continued operating for a couple more weeks until I could arrange to replace it.
- zanny 8y ago
  I've always wanted to just use an old junk PC as a router instead of paying for what is basically an overpriced Pi with a 4 jack ethernet card attached. But the problem then is that getting enough ethernet ports in the thing to equal the average router is price prohibitive. I wish there were $20-$30 PCI-E bridge cards of >2 1Gbit ethernet jacks but they don't exist.
  - untangle 8y ago
    Dual-port start at $18 on amzn ($35 for Intel)? But single-port will do ($12). The add pfSense, Untangle, etc. to complete the solution.

justaj 8y ago

Albeit a bit expensive, Turris Omnia is fully open source down to schematics level. It's also pretty beefy with dual-core ARM CPU at 1.6 GHz and 1 GB DDR3. Its documentation is however a bit lacking unfortunately.

pimeys 8y ago
Been running a home network with over ten devices and a fast internet connection with an Omnia Turris for almost two years now. It gets regular updates automatically, is fast and the UI is nice. Fixing things like bufferbloat was easy with the community instructions. Oh and it's openwrt under the hood, with lxc containers for things such as grafana.
- NickBusey 8y ago
  Careful if you started using lxc like I did before they added warnings not to use them with the internal flash storage. You need to have added additional storage via the mSATA slot, and designate that as your storage location before using lxc. Otherwise according to Turris you will burn through your internal memory very quickly.

agentx3r 8y ago

Ubiquiti makes great prosumer stuff, if you're willing to pay ~$120 for the 'router', and then another ~$100 for the wireless access point. That's not 'cheap', but it's about on par what you'd pay for a fancy consumer router that looks like a spaceship. You'll get a great interface, frequent firmware updates with new features and security fixes, and you'll have a good strong signal at your neighbour's house if you're going for a visit.

ipython 8y ago
You can get the EdgeRouter X for ~$50 and that will scale to symmetric gigabit connections, if your needs are simple (ie. you're just doing basic routing & firewalling, not trying to do traffic shaping, etc). Budget AP option then is a UAP-AC-Lite which you can buy off Amazon for ~$80, bringing your total to $130 all said and done. That's cheaper than most all-in-one routers, and while you won't get the best single-client bandwidth, you will get much better management/configuration options.
- wtallis 8y ago
  > That's cheaper than most all-in-one routers, It really isn't. There are plenty of consumer router+AP combos in the $75-90 range that offer equal or better performance to the ER-X + UAP-AC-Lite combination.
  - copperx 8y ago
    Such as ...?
    - semi-extrinsic 8y ago
      Not OP, but I've been very happy with a $60 Buffalo N300, running since 2015 with no issues. I run DD-WRT on it, 200 Mbit symmetric fiber uplink, 3 devices connected via ethernet and the rest via wifi covering the whole (wooden) house, and I have port forwards for ssh and https to the server in the garage. Does everything I need and more. I've been looking for an excuse to go down the Ubiquiti route, but I really can't find one.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

nextos 8y ago

I'm using a Compulab Fitlet 2 (a really nice and cheap fanless Intel machine with multiple Ethernet ports designed for Linux) and NixOS. It's easy to set up and run multiple services (think XMPP, ssh, IP over DNS...).

mattnewton 8y ago

I used to use Apple routers. They were pricey but reliable and very easy to configure, especially from inside the apple ecosystem. Now? I have no idea what I’ll upgrade to when the time comes.

rb808 8y ago

I have always used consumer routers and they worked great. I finally got persuaded by the "consumer routers are garbage" attitude and bought an Ubiquiti edgerouter and instantly regretted it. Yes I can now do very complex configurations and control lots of things I couldn't before. But I really dont want to do that and I can't notice the difference in performance so it was a bit of a waste. My guess the if you get a wireless router, wifi signal strength is most important part, aside from that any mainstream router is probably OK.

wtallis 8y ago
> and I can't notice the difference in performance so it was a bit of a waste. That's because Ubiquiti Edgerouters and APs use the same processors and radios as consumer routers. If there's any truth to the memes about hardware quality, then the differences lie in things like the power supplies. Most of the perceived improvement in stability that Ubiquiti Edgerouters offer comes from having software that is actively maintained and not stuck on decade-old software branches. You can get all the same software benefits (more, really) by running OpenWRT on consumer hardware.
- Piskvorrr 8y ago
  ...if you're willing to actively maintain your setup. Probably a safe assumption here; for a normal user, that would be too much of a burden.

legulere 8y ago

AVM Fritz!box

philipri 8y ago

I'm actually pretty happy with my Netgear Velop mesh system. I had a Netgear Nighthawk X8, but when I moved it was great for the new house. The Velop mesh has been seamless.

notriddle 8y ago

Do Synology routers count as consumer?

ebikelaw 8y ago

I've had my Google OnHub for three years now and it works flawlessly, regularly updating itself without any detectable downtime. It is by far the longest that I've had any wifi access point, and it is the only one I haven't had to personally check and update for security issues.

wmf 8y ago

Since this thread is about security: Google WiFi. It has secure boot and it auto-updates (although there seem to be few updates released lately).

auslander 8y ago
Device from Ad company with access to all your traffic? No, thanks.

milcron 8y ago

This is quite possibly overkill, but I'm pleased with this setup at home: Cost | Purpose | What $109 | Router | PCEngines apu2c2 http://pcengines.ch/apu2c2.htm $10 | Router Case | http://pcengines.ch/case1d2blku.htm $17 | Router Storage | http://pcengines.ch/msata16g.htm $30 | Gigabit Switch | https://www.amazon.com/D-Link-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Desktop-DGS-108/dp/B000BCC0LO/ $80 | Wifi | Ubiquiti Unifi Lite https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi-Ap-AC-Lite-UAPACLITEUS/dp/B015PR20GY/ With this setup, the router only does _routing_, so you also need a Wireless Access Point (WAP). Connect it like so: Modem->Router->Switch->WAP. Install pfSense on the router, configure the Unifi using Ubiquiti's Java app, and you're done. It's about $250 all together which _is_ more expensive than consumer routers, but IMHO it's worth the superior quality. The APU board is well-documented (PCEngines provides schematics!) and the firmware is based on Coreboot. The processor supports AES acceleration for faster encryption (great if you use VPNs!) PfSense is an enterprise-grade router/firewall with scads of graphs and features. And the Unifi has a great antenna with excellent range. Not to mention this setup leaves you with six spare ethernet ports on the switch.

kqr 8y ago

I did something slightly different: I was donated various low-power, low-noise PC parts from a friend, one of which was a motherboard with two ethernet ports. Chucked FreeBSD on it, configured one port as WAN and the other LAN, connected LAN to cheap-ish switch and from there also to wifi bridge. Never had a better setup. It blows any consumer router I've used out of the water in terms of stability, performance, flexibility, security, and user experience. Getting emails for potential security issues, custom DNS domain for local network, fail2ban bruteforce prevention, QoS, alerting when WAN goes down, and so on, has all been a breeze to set up.

fghtr 8y ago

I would recommend an FSF-certified ThinkPenguin router that respects your freedom: https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/thinkpenguin https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/thinkpenguin