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Given the problems with plastic waste how can anyone justify individually wrapped cheese slices? (Constructive answers only please. I am genuinely interested in

Given the problems with plastic waste how can anyone justify individually wrapped cheese slices? (Constructive answers only please. I am genuinely interested in seeing if there are any arguments in favour.)

Hnrobert42 8y ago
Individually wrapped cheese slices could lead to less spoilage.
- gdfasfklshg 8y ago
  This is potentially true. As far as I can see from the article this is only achieved by the use of preservatives. I wonder if similar results in limiting spoilage could be achieved using different preservatives without the wrapping?
- Doxin 8y ago
  Except in practice individual slices all go bad at (roughly) the same time. If a block of cheese goes moldy you can just slice off the mold and keep going. Cheese goes bad outside-in, pre-sliced cheese has way more surface area.
  - joezydeco 8y ago
    Processed cheese dries out very rapidly when exposed to the dry air inside a refrigerator.
    - Doxin 8y ago
      So does nonprocessed cheese. You'll want to store it in something nonpermeable like modern cheese paper, or a small plastic bag.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  As someone from Wisconsin it is wrong to even call that stuff "cheese". The plastic wrapping and the contents are pretty much the same thing.
  - sithadmin 8y ago
    Meh, this is just snobbery. Processed American cheese is still in fact a cheese, and whether you like it or not, it has its place.
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      It has its place. It is called the garbage.
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      Isn't it technically a "processed cheese product"? Why eat something so intensely boring, when there is so much great cheese out there?
      - YinglingLight 8y ago
        Take pride in what you create, rather than what you consume.
        KozmoNau7 8y ago
        I make amazing food, using quality ingredients.
      - Pfhreak 8y ago
        I used to agree with you. Then I read this: https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american-cheese.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american... The answer to your second question is: Texture. The way process (not "processed") cheese melts is definitely different than similar cheeses. There's a gooeyness and meltability that's unique for applications like a grilled cheese or burger, and good process cheese is just cheese that's been melted with a few salts. It turns out there are many different American cheeses: Pasteurized Process Cheese - Various cheeses melted together with an emulsifying agent. Pasteurized Process Cheese Food - Mostly cheese, but with a higher % of 'the other stuff'. Pasteurized Process American Slices - Not actually cheese. A vegetable oil horrorshow.
KozmoNau7 8y ago
Potentially less spoilage, because it would be limited to just one slice, and also less risk of smelly fingers. It's simply a convenience and comfort issue for a lot of people. We've gotten used to pre-sliced, pre-portioned food products. There's also a big convenience benefit for breakfast buffets and similar situations where slicing your own cheese is seen as inconvenient, messy and time-consuming. Personally I don't even like to buy pre-sliced cheese, never mind individually packaged slices. I have a perfectly reasonable cheese slicer, and a cheese knife for softer cheeses. We absolutely do not need plastic packages with 10 slices of cheese, separated by individual plastic sheets. Most of the time the pre-sliced cheese also tastes worse, and tends to go sour-smelling after a day or two, once the package is opened. I find it extremely puzzling that we've managed to turn a thing meant to preserve dairy potentially for years, into something prone to spoiling extremely quickly. There's a similar issue with pre-sliced serrano ham and other meats that are packaged with plastic sheets between them. Sure, it helps you to take out a single slice cleanly, but the plastic waste is insane. I'm not sure if there's a better packaging solution, but honestly I would just prefer to buy a whole piece of cured ham, and slice off thin pieces myself instead.
- icc97 8y ago
  > where slicing your own cheese is seen as inconvenient, messy and time-consuming > Personally I don't even like to buy pre-sliced cheese, never mind individually packaged slices. I have a perfectly reasonable cheese slicer, and a cheese knife for softer cheeses. We absolutely do not need plastic packages with 10 slices of cheese, separated by individual plastic sheets. Perhaps it's just a weird English mature cheddar thing, but half the joy of eating cheddar is trying to make nice clean slices and eating the extra bits that crumble off. If I'm making a sandwich only half the cheese I cut off goes into it, I eat the other half.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Oh yes, definitely. Cheese is just full of savory goodness, I hate to let even a tiny piece go to waste. So what if it crumbles? It'll still fit on my bread just fine, and still taste just the same :-)
whywhywhywhy 8y ago
For cheeses like Edam, Gouda, Emmental you can't really, they work absolutely fine stacked in a multipack. But for that sort of fake American cheese that melts beautifully onto burgers if you shipped them packaged together the slices would merge together in a warm kitchen in my experience.
- megaman22 8y ago
  With the American cheese, I've found that the white has a higher melting point than the orange, usually, so a big block of sliced white american cheese holds up well. I don't really have any idea why that would be the case, but it's definitely been my experience.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >I've found that the white has a higher melting point than the orange, usually, so a big block of sliced white american cheese holds up well. This is my experience as well. I still buy the yellow cheese because its lower melting point is more suitable for rapidly melting over things I want to melt it over. Even though the theoretical shelf life may be the same regardless of packaging the block of cheese in a ziplock from the deli will go bad faster than wrapped singles, probably extra air (the same way bread in a large container goes stale faster than bread in a bag) and possibly because of a difference in preservatives. In practice singles have a much longer shelf life. Everything has tradeoffs.
adrianN 8y ago
Is plastic waste that much of a problem in first world countries? We're pretty diligent with transporting our garbage to landfills where the plastic doesn't really do all that much harm. It was my impression that the vast majority of all plastic waste that ends up in the ocean comes from countries that don't have proper garbage management, where people just dump everything into the next river.
- gambiting 8y ago
  I feel like it's an issue because everything is plastic wrapped these days. My local supermarket has plastic bags of apples, where every single apple is individually wrapped in more plastic - just WHY???? not to mention the stupid amount of plastic containers used for ham, cheese, bread....few of which are recyclable. I've had some deserts lately, where the outer packaging was plastic, then there was a plastic tray, holding two plastic cups, each with a plastic cover on top. It's an absolute madness, I feel like I'm shitting right on the environment just by having some dessert. Not that long ago all ham/cheese would come wrapped in some waxed paper. Bread would come in a paper bag. Nowadays I'd estimate 80% of my refuse bag is just plastic. And sure, my recycling bin is full too - but the refuse bags are not going to be recycled, it just goes straight to the landfill, where the best hope for it is that it will be used for fuel at some point, like it is in Scandinavian countries. So yeah sure - it's not going in the ocean. But I don't think we're a lot better at it either.
- Joe8Bit 8y ago
  In short, yes. The creation, processing, transportation and recycling of plastics is a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions[0] and other forms of industrial pollution like water table pollution from landfills. A conservative estimate[1] puts 10% of all plastics created (from first world countries too) being deposited in the worlds oceans, to disastrous effects[2]. The US economy is one of, if not the largest, contributing factor to the above pacific plastic waste problem. Even if we're better at recycling plastics than some countries (still pretty terrible at only ~10%) and not letting them leak out into the environment, the sheer volume we consume and dispose of still makes the US and other Western countries by FAR the biggest contributors to plastics pollution. 0: https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/industry/technical-info/benchmarking/plastics/5211 https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/industry/technical... 1: http://plastic-pollution.org/ http://plastic-pollution.org/ 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch

Hnrobert42 8y ago

Individually wrapped cheese slices could lead to less spoilage.

gdfasfklshg 8y ago
This is potentially true. As far as I can see from the article this is only achieved by the use of preservatives. I wonder if similar results in limiting spoilage could be achieved using different preservatives without the wrapping?
Doxin 8y ago
Except in practice individual slices all go bad at (roughly) the same time. If a block of cheese goes moldy you can just slice off the mold and keep going. Cheese goes bad outside-in, pre-sliced cheese has way more surface area.
- joezydeco 8y ago
  Processed cheese dries out very rapidly when exposed to the dry air inside a refrigerator.
  - Doxin 8y ago
    So does nonprocessed cheese. You'll want to store it in something nonpermeable like modern cheese paper, or a small plastic bag.
paulie_a 8y ago
As someone from Wisconsin it is wrong to even call that stuff "cheese". The plastic wrapping and the contents are pretty much the same thing.
- sithadmin 8y ago
  Meh, this is just snobbery. Processed American cheese is still in fact a cheese, and whether you like it or not, it has its place.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    It has its place. It is called the garbage.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Isn't it technically a "processed cheese product"? Why eat something so intensely boring, when there is so much great cheese out there?
    - YinglingLight 8y ago
      Take pride in what you create, rather than what you consume.
      - KozmoNau7 8y ago
        I make amazing food, using quality ingredients.
    - Pfhreak 8y ago
      I used to agree with you. Then I read this: https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american-cheese.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/07/whats-really-in-american... The answer to your second question is: Texture. The way process (not "processed") cheese melts is definitely different than similar cheeses. There's a gooeyness and meltability that's unique for applications like a grilled cheese or burger, and good process cheese is just cheese that's been melted with a few salts. It turns out there are many different American cheeses: Pasteurized Process Cheese - Various cheeses melted together with an emulsifying agent. Pasteurized Process Cheese Food - Mostly cheese, but with a higher % of 'the other stuff'. Pasteurized Process American Slices - Not actually cheese. A vegetable oil horrorshow.

KozmoNau7 8y ago

Potentially less spoilage, because it would be limited to just one slice, and also less risk of smelly fingers. It's simply a convenience and comfort issue for a lot of people. We've gotten used to pre-sliced, pre-portioned food products. There's also a big convenience benefit for breakfast buffets and similar situations where slicing your own cheese is seen as inconvenient, messy and time-consuming. Personally I don't even like to buy pre-sliced cheese, never mind individually packaged slices. I have a perfectly reasonable cheese slicer, and a cheese knife for softer cheeses. We absolutely do not need plastic packages with 10 slices of cheese, separated by individual plastic sheets. Most of the time the pre-sliced cheese also tastes worse, and tends to go sour-smelling after a day or two, once the package is opened. I find it extremely puzzling that we've managed to turn a thing meant to preserve dairy potentially for years, into something prone to spoiling extremely quickly. There's a similar issue with pre-sliced serrano ham and other meats that are packaged with plastic sheets between them. Sure, it helps you to take out a single slice cleanly, but the plastic waste is insane. I'm not sure if there's a better packaging solution, but honestly I would just prefer to buy a whole piece of cured ham, and slice off thin pieces myself instead.

icc97 8y ago
> where slicing your own cheese is seen as inconvenient, messy and time-consuming > Personally I don't even like to buy pre-sliced cheese, never mind individually packaged slices. I have a perfectly reasonable cheese slicer, and a cheese knife for softer cheeses. We absolutely do not need plastic packages with 10 slices of cheese, separated by individual plastic sheets. Perhaps it's just a weird English mature cheddar thing, but half the joy of eating cheddar is trying to make nice clean slices and eating the extra bits that crumble off. If I'm making a sandwich only half the cheese I cut off goes into it, I eat the other half.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  Oh yes, definitely. Cheese is just full of savory goodness, I hate to let even a tiny piece go to waste. So what if it crumbles? It'll still fit on my bread just fine, and still taste just the same :-)

whywhywhywhy 8y ago

For cheeses like Edam, Gouda, Emmental you can't really, they work absolutely fine stacked in a multipack. But for that sort of fake American cheese that melts beautifully onto burgers if you shipped them packaged together the slices would merge together in a warm kitchen in my experience.

megaman22 8y ago
With the American cheese, I've found that the white has a higher melting point than the orange, usually, so a big block of sliced white american cheese holds up well. I don't really have any idea why that would be the case, but it's definitely been my experience.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >I've found that the white has a higher melting point than the orange, usually, so a big block of sliced white american cheese holds up well. This is my experience as well. I still buy the yellow cheese because its lower melting point is more suitable for rapidly melting over things I want to melt it over. Even though the theoretical shelf life may be the same regardless of packaging the block of cheese in a ziplock from the deli will go bad faster than wrapped singles, probably extra air (the same way bread in a large container goes stale faster than bread in a bag) and possibly because of a difference in preservatives. In practice singles have a much longer shelf life. Everything has tradeoffs.

adrianN 8y ago

Is plastic waste that much of a problem in first world countries? We're pretty diligent with transporting our garbage to landfills where the plastic doesn't really do all that much harm. It was my impression that the vast majority of all plastic waste that ends up in the ocean comes from countries that don't have proper garbage management, where people just dump everything into the next river.

gambiting 8y ago
I feel like it's an issue because everything is plastic wrapped these days. My local supermarket has plastic bags of apples, where every single apple is individually wrapped in more plastic - just WHY???? not to mention the stupid amount of plastic containers used for ham, cheese, bread....few of which are recyclable. I've had some deserts lately, where the outer packaging was plastic, then there was a plastic tray, holding two plastic cups, each with a plastic cover on top. It's an absolute madness, I feel like I'm shitting right on the environment just by having some dessert. Not that long ago all ham/cheese would come wrapped in some waxed paper. Bread would come in a paper bag. Nowadays I'd estimate 80% of my refuse bag is just plastic. And sure, my recycling bin is full too - but the refuse bags are not going to be recycled, it just goes straight to the landfill, where the best hope for it is that it will be used for fuel at some point, like it is in Scandinavian countries. So yeah sure - it's not going in the ocean. But I don't think we're a lot better at it either.
Joe8Bit 8y ago
In short, yes. The creation, processing, transportation and recycling of plastics is a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions[0] and other forms of industrial pollution like water table pollution from landfills. A conservative estimate[1] puts 10% of all plastics created (from first world countries too) being deposited in the worlds oceans, to disastrous effects[2]. The US economy is one of, if not the largest, contributing factor to the above pacific plastic waste problem. Even if we're better at recycling plastics than some countries (still pretty terrible at only ~10%) and not letting them leak out into the environment, the sheer volume we consume and dispose of still makes the US and other Western countries by FAR the biggest contributors to plastics pollution. 0: https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/industry/technical-info/benchmarking/plastics/5211 https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/industry/technical... 1: http://plastic-pollution.org/ http://plastic-pollution.org/ 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch