8 ms·

Grover raises €37M Series A to offer latest tech products as a subscription

50 points by Kemet 8y ago

wnsire 8y ago
Interesting concept , don't know if this is something that would work outside of germany though , because of how dependant it is on the culture of the country between owning something and renting it. I'm very curious to know if product come in a generalist box with the company logo on it or if it's sent with the original box that is sold with product ?
- fuxufu 8y ago
  We've just received our Vive yesterday. It comes in a brown regular box where the original product box is inside. They also packed an additional cleaning cloth with it.
a_d 8y ago
>”funding consists of €12 million in equity and a new €25 million debt facility. Building an inventory of new tech products to rent is quite capital insensitive, after all.“ > “if Grover’s subscription model becomes compelling enough, it’s hoped that purchasing many tech products will become so unattractive as to create Netflix-level changes in consumption behaviour. Or, at least, that’s the aim. In my case, that would mean spending far less time recycling things like smartphones and music technology gear on eBay as I tread a well-trodden and perpetual upgrade path.“ Questions to consider: 1) This business requires upfront capex into depreciating hardware with the hope that users are sticky. And users would be sticky partially because they would succeed in changing general attitudes towards ownership. Does this seem plausible? 2) If this works, there is going to be a gold-rush style copycats (since TAM is big). How could they fend off copycats? ie another company giving iPhone X at $x/mo, where x is 50-cents lower than Grover. 3) Out of General curiousity, does an average person have this problem? (Of wanting consumer electronics on $x/mo, so they can upgrade?). 4) All leasing businesses have an end of life value problem — I always thought that consumer electronics has a big EOL problem (worse than cars, say) in that they don’t have a second-hand market. It’s either recyclers or landfill. In that scenario, isn’t consumer electronics the worst place to start a leasing business. (They mention laptops for businesses; that makes more sense, because first, it’s B2B (TCO and cash flow matters) and there is some secondary market). What am I missing?
- Illniyar 8y ago
  Something to consider is that the trend of replacing consumer electronics, namely phones and computers, every 2 years might be getting to a stop as new hardware no longer offers considerable improvements over old hardware. Also there is a second hand market for iPhones.
- WilliamEdward 8y ago
  2) I'm guessing licensing comes into this, the same way netflix are the sole providers of certain content, and not others. Also I could technically watch something for free if I torrent it, but I'd much rather use netflix. In the same way, maybe this service is more about high quality and reliability,rather than the actual product. 3) I am as average as it gets, and I only upgrade every couple of years or so. They should definitely make this a yearly subscription model only. 4) They definitely have a second-hand market in poorer communities, who are willing to pay for older versions if they are cheaper. Old electronics are not completely useless and are way, way easier to repair than old cars.
- tomtimtall 8y ago
  And to add to the list: except for the “we a new sexy start up that’s going to revolutionize the world”-hype, how is this business any different from the already well established leasing companies that seem to already be doing what it is Grover is trying to accomplish?
- michaelt 8y ago
  does an average person have this problem? (Of wanting consumer electronics on $x/mo, so they can upgrade?). Plenty of people pay $x/mo to get a cell phone on contract with little or nothing to pay upfront.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - eli 8y ago
    ... and own the phone at the end of the contract. That's just financing.
arghimonmobile2 8y ago
What an environmental tragedy! If only people would reuse/repair/recycle more, not less.
- pjc50 8y ago
  Depending on how they handle ex-rental devices this could result in more reuse. It's not clear. But happening in Germany is a good sign - Germany is very big on environmental responsibility.
- ddorian43 8y ago
  Do you expect that they'll throw something in the trash after you rent it for one month ?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
pjc50 8y ago
This actually looks like the re-invention of hire-purchase, or "buying things on the never-never". Its viability is dependent on a market where people's income is reliable enough to rent these things, not quite reliable enough to get them cheap consumer credit, and not quite enough to save up for them.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
rekshaw 8y ago
I gave a look at their site. If you want to own an iPhoneX + MacBook Pro for 12 months, it costs you almost 200 EUR a month. And at the end of it you have nothing. If you spent 2,400 you could get a new iPhone X + a barely used MacBook Pro and use both at least 2 years. Doesn't make much sense unless money is no issue and you really hate ownership.
- badestrand 8y ago
  Some people might want to test iPhone and MacBook if they are thinking about switching over from Android and Windows. Or a few app developers might want to lease it for two months for testing. Grover does not need every single person to use their service.
  - Kagerjay 8y ago
    mkbhd (youtuber who does gadget tech reviews) / physical apple store / physical microsoft store is all you really need to make a decision.
- fuxufu 8y ago
  We rented an HTC Vive last week for an event (Hackathon for recruiting). Cost us about 45€ for a month. We wouldn't need the device longer so this was easier/cheaper.
- jpalomaki 8y ago
  Some people are not interested in buying used equipment or selling their old stuff.
  - disiplus 8y ago
    well, with grover you are also getting a used item.
- thesimon 8y ago
  On the other hand: The GoPro 5 is only 20€ for a month, perfect for a vacation.
danielmg 8y ago
This will be a magnet for fraud. Aside from that, I just don't get it. For example in the UK you can bundle the price of a mobile-phone into the contract payments. Laptops/iPads etc always take knocks etc and who wants to risk personal data by handing back such a device.
- mgiannopoulos 8y ago
  It’s quite easy to format a device. It can even be done remotely (iOS)
  - danielmg 8y ago
    and just as easy to recover data from a formatted device unless a secure wipe is done (which takes time and knowledge). I work in banking and we shred drives when we are done with them for this reason.
    - mgiannopoulos 8y ago
      People already sell used laptops without looking into bank-level secure data erasure though. This isn’t a real concern for this company.
salawat 8y ago
Lets see: A) You don't own the product. B) The product will likely require more contracts to be signed than physical count of objects being handed over. C) Creates a new opportunity for an insurance submarket. D) Only looks feasible due to increasing centralization of capital E) Yet another attempt at creating a company based around a recurring revenue stream F) Absolutely stupid name G) Is reliant on poor technology use habit H) Doesn't really solve any problems for the end user Go home, tech. You're rent seeking again. Come back with an actual idea that solves a problem. The trend toward -- as a Service is really getting a bit grating. The -aaS bubble will pop sooner rather than later I hope.
- morsch 8y ago
  I can see using their service for things I just want to try out (eg VR glasses, game console) or which I need for a specific project (eg 3d printer, high end camera, all sorts of tools). This is not a novel concept, there are already companies serving these markets. I don't think it's ridiculous to try to become the default option for all of them at the same time.
- puranjay 8y ago
  I disagree. There are pieces of technology that I want to try but don't want to fork up the cash for. I'm not sure if I'll actually use them or if they're worth the price. VR, AR, 3D printers - basically anything at the cutting edge of the tech experience would be a good candidate. I can't justify spending $1,000 on a VR rig. But I don't mind paying a few dollars every month just to try the thing out.
  - radiorental 8y ago
    > I want to try but don't want to fork up the cash for see pretty much every point in the original comment but specific bad tech habit use. If you're not really sure you need this stuff then you don't need it. Plain and simple. If you don't have the disposable cash to pay for it outright then you can't afford it anyway. With that all said you can try out the three examples you cite at your local Best Buy, Microsoft Store, Maker Space, Home Depot, etc etc. If the argument is that you're in rural Idaho without access to this stuff then the business model is broken.
foxhop 8y ago
Instead of Grover they should be named Oscar (the grouch who hoards garbage).
hddherman 8y ago
Sounds like a device security nightmare, with all the control they will have, plus the risk of a malicious actor on the inside being able to do something nasty.

50 points by Kemet 8y ago

Interesting concept , don't know if this is something that would work outside of germany though , because of how dependant it is on the culture of the country between owning something and renting it. I'm very curious to know if product come in a generalist box with the company logo on it or if it's sent with the original box that is sold with product ?

fuxufu 8y ago
We've just received our Vive yesterday. It comes in a brown regular box where the original product box is inside. They also packed an additional cleaning cloth with it.

a_d 8y ago

>”funding consists of €12 million in equity and a new €25 million debt facility. Building an inventory of new tech products to rent is quite capital insensitive, after all.“ > “if Grover’s subscription model becomes compelling enough, it’s hoped that purchasing many tech products will become so unattractive as to create Netflix-level changes in consumption behaviour. Or, at least, that’s the aim. In my case, that would mean spending far less time recycling things like smartphones and music technology gear on eBay as I tread a well-trodden and perpetual upgrade path.“ Questions to consider: 1) This business requires upfront capex into depreciating hardware with the hope that users are sticky. And users would be sticky partially because they would succeed in changing general attitudes towards ownership. Does this seem plausible? 2) If this works, there is going to be a gold-rush style copycats (since TAM is big). How could they fend off copycats? ie another company giving iPhone X at $x/mo, where x is 50-cents lower than Grover. 3) Out of General curiousity, does an average person have this problem? (Of wanting consumer electronics on $x/mo, so they can upgrade?). 4) All leasing businesses have an end of life value problem — I always thought that consumer electronics has a big EOL problem (worse than cars, say) in that they don’t have a second-hand market. It’s either recyclers or landfill. In that scenario, isn’t consumer electronics the worst place to start a leasing business. (They mention laptops for businesses; that makes more sense, because first, it’s B2B (TCO and cash flow matters) and there is some secondary market). What am I missing?

Illniyar 8y ago
Something to consider is that the trend of replacing consumer electronics, namely phones and computers, every 2 years might be getting to a stop as new hardware no longer offers considerable improvements over old hardware. Also there is a second hand market for iPhones.
WilliamEdward 8y ago
2) I'm guessing licensing comes into this, the same way netflix are the sole providers of certain content, and not others. Also I could technically watch something for free if I torrent it, but I'd much rather use netflix. In the same way, maybe this service is more about high quality and reliability,rather than the actual product. 3) I am as average as it gets, and I only upgrade every couple of years or so. They should definitely make this a yearly subscription model only. 4) They definitely have a second-hand market in poorer communities, who are willing to pay for older versions if they are cheaper. Old electronics are not completely useless and are way, way easier to repair than old cars.
tomtimtall 8y ago
And to add to the list: except for the “we a new sexy start up that’s going to revolutionize the world”-hype, how is this business any different from the already well established leasing companies that seem to already be doing what it is Grover is trying to accomplish?
michaelt 8y ago
does an average person have this problem? (Of wanting consumer electronics on $x/mo, so they can upgrade?). Plenty of people pay $x/mo to get a cell phone on contract with little or nothing to pay upfront.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- eli 8y ago
  ... and own the phone at the end of the contract. That's just financing.

arghimonmobile2 8y ago

What an environmental tragedy! If only people would reuse/repair/recycle more, not less.

pjc50 8y ago
Depending on how they handle ex-rental devices this could result in more reuse. It's not clear. But happening in Germany is a good sign - Germany is very big on environmental responsibility.
ddorian43 8y ago
Do you expect that they'll throw something in the trash after you rent it for one month ?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

pjc50 8y ago

This actually looks like the re-invention of hire-purchase, or "buying things on the never-never". Its viability is dependent on a market where people's income is reliable enough to rent these things, not quite reliable enough to get them cheap consumer credit, and not quite enough to save up for them.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

rekshaw 8y ago

I gave a look at their site. If you want to own an iPhoneX + MacBook Pro for 12 months, it costs you almost 200 EUR a month. And at the end of it you have nothing. If you spent 2,400 you could get a new iPhone X + a barely used MacBook Pro and use both at least 2 years. Doesn't make much sense unless money is no issue and you really hate ownership.

badestrand 8y ago
Some people might want to test iPhone and MacBook if they are thinking about switching over from Android and Windows. Or a few app developers might want to lease it for two months for testing. Grover does not need every single person to use their service.
- Kagerjay 8y ago
  mkbhd (youtuber who does gadget tech reviews) / physical apple store / physical microsoft store is all you really need to make a decision.
fuxufu 8y ago
We rented an HTC Vive last week for an event (Hackathon for recruiting). Cost us about 45€ for a month. We wouldn't need the device longer so this was easier/cheaper.
jpalomaki 8y ago
Some people are not interested in buying used equipment or selling their old stuff.
- disiplus 8y ago
  well, with grover you are also getting a used item.
thesimon 8y ago
On the other hand: The GoPro 5 is only 20€ for a month, perfect for a vacation.

danielmg 8y ago

This will be a magnet for fraud. Aside from that, I just don't get it. For example in the UK you can bundle the price of a mobile-phone into the contract payments. Laptops/iPads etc always take knocks etc and who wants to risk personal data by handing back such a device.

mgiannopoulos 8y ago
It’s quite easy to format a device. It can even be done remotely (iOS)
- danielmg 8y ago
  and just as easy to recover data from a formatted device unless a secure wipe is done (which takes time and knowledge). I work in banking and we shred drives when we are done with them for this reason.
  - mgiannopoulos 8y ago
    People already sell used laptops without looking into bank-level secure data erasure though. This isn’t a real concern for this company.

salawat 8y ago

Lets see: A) You don't own the product. B) The product will likely require more contracts to be signed than physical count of objects being handed over. C) Creates a new opportunity for an insurance submarket. D) Only looks feasible due to increasing centralization of capital E) Yet another attempt at creating a company based around a recurring revenue stream F) Absolutely stupid name G) Is reliant on poor technology use habit H) Doesn't really solve any problems for the end user Go home, tech. You're rent seeking again. Come back with an actual idea that solves a problem. The trend toward -- as a Service is really getting a bit grating. The -aaS bubble will pop sooner rather than later I hope.

morsch 8y ago
I can see using their service for things I just want to try out (eg VR glasses, game console) or which I need for a specific project (eg 3d printer, high end camera, all sorts of tools). This is not a novel concept, there are already companies serving these markets. I don't think it's ridiculous to try to become the default option for all of them at the same time.
puranjay 8y ago
I disagree. There are pieces of technology that I want to try but don't want to fork up the cash for. I'm not sure if I'll actually use them or if they're worth the price. VR, AR, 3D printers - basically anything at the cutting edge of the tech experience would be a good candidate. I can't justify spending $1,000 on a VR rig. But I don't mind paying a few dollars every month just to try the thing out.
- radiorental 8y ago
  > I want to try but don't want to fork up the cash for see pretty much every point in the original comment but specific bad tech habit use. If you're not really sure you need this stuff then you don't need it. Plain and simple. If you don't have the disposable cash to pay for it outright then you can't afford it anyway. With that all said you can try out the three examples you cite at your local Best Buy, Microsoft Store, Maker Space, Home Depot, etc etc. If the argument is that you're in rural Idaho without access to this stuff then the business model is broken.

foxhop 8y ago

Instead of Grover they should be named Oscar (the grouch who hoards garbage).

hddherman 8y ago

Sounds like a device security nightmare, with all the control they will have, plus the risk of a malicious actor on the inside being able to do something nasty.